New stadium plans 'an act of pure vandalism', says group of local businesses

[charliemouse]

Identikit NIMBY stuff, full of megaphone clichés.

The "out of scale" arguments aren't going to cut any ice. The "heritage assets" arguments help Historic England by showing that there is local support for the retention of the three buildings - in fact it would not surprise me if this objection was actively recruited by HE, through contacts.

A bit of devil's advocate is merited, though. Architecturally, Tottenham is anything but a "shithole". It has a very impressive collection of high-quality Georgian architecture, including some fine late 18c. buildings further down the High Rd toward Seven Sisters. There are excellent historic buildngs in Bruce Grove, too, and elsewhere. And, of course, there's Bruce Castle, which is Grade I listed and 16c.

You have to look up and see what's behind some of the shop facades and also imagine what some of the better buildings would be like if they were cleaned and fully restored didn't have 20 cars parked in their forecourts.

When I was doing my architecture degree, we would joke that you can always tell the architects, because they're the only people who look up above ground floor level when they walk down London streets, except of course the tourists.

Us historians are also taught to look above ground level as well.

 

[guiltyparty]

I think Spurs fans who just pop in to Tottenham to watch matches occasionally need to realise that there's more to an area regeneration than just making match days more pleasant for everyone and letting more of us get season tickets.

This is mostly hot air, as @davidmatzdorf says, but it's strange the way every negative against the scheme is met with such a strong backlash. We all want a nice new stadium but really, at all costs?

It shouldn't have to be Harry Hotspur going way OTT over there, and everyone else over here pretending like knocking down a load of old buildings is totally fine. There's far more grey than black and white in this.

 

[max cady]

I don't recall Arsenal or Citeh having any of these issues

 

[Japhet]

I don't recall Arsenal or Citeh having any of these issues

They probably did and went into meltdown on their own forums.

 

[striebs]

I don't recall Arsenal or Citeh having any of these issues

The regeneration goes way beyond a new football ground and swanky restaurants .

They are planning on evicting small businesses and building housing in their place .

Put yourselves in the shoes of a small businessman like the proprietor of the lumber yard featured on the TV program about David Lammy's MP's surgery .

He's about to see three plus generations of his families work thrown away and 28 people put on the dole and his livelihood disappear .

How many local kids have got their first taste of work doing a summer holiday job there which helped them choose the right direction rather than a life of petty crime ?

It just seems to some of us that if they want to make a real difference they need more small businesses and less basket case families to house .

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

I think Spurs fans who just pop in to Tottenham to watch matches occasionally need to realise that there's more to an area regeneration than just making match days more pleasant for everyone and letting more of us get season tickets.

This is mostly hot air, as @davidmatzdorf says, but it's strange the way every negative against the scheme is met with such a strong backlash. We all want a nice new stadium but really, at all costs?

It shouldn't have to be Harry Hotspur going way OTT over there, and everyone else over here pretending like knocking down a load of old buildings is totally fine. There's far more grey than black and white in this.

It's because we're tottenham and we're used to being persecuted for that.

As if rival fans wouldn't look for anything that could find to cause us a problem!

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Put yourselves in the shoes of a small businessman like the proprietor of the lumber yard featured on the TV program about David Lammy's MP's surgery .

He's about to see three plus generations of his families work thrown away and 28 people put on the dole and his livelihood disappear .

Surely all businesses in the regeneration zone have been offered ample compensation?

How many local kids have got their first taste of work doing a summer holiday job there which helped them choose the right direction rather than a life of petty crime ?

More chance of this happening with the area regenerated. It's as low as it can possibly get at the moment.

It just seems to some of us that if they want to make a real difference they need more small businesses and less basket case families to house .
A lot of people got very rich starting a small business and recognising when a good time to sell happened. Likewise a lot of people lost a fortune when they didn't take it and their once good business failed.

 

[striebs]

The case of the lumber yard is nothing to do with the new ground .

If the compensation was ample the incumbents would probably take it .

I don't know the terms of the compensation but would be pleasantly surprised if it enabled them to buy another site which was equally as good which was not already served by another yard and migrate their business to it .

In most situations there are winners and losers and it's normally the people who are trying to do the right thing which get punished .

Politicians and councils don't understand small businesses and what is more don't want to .

Far bettter to import a few more losers who will require assistance from cradle to grave to justify the existence of the bureaucrats .

 

[Chris_D]

These people cannot be serious.

You wouldn't believe it but they probably are serious. By that I mean serious in the sense that if we give them money to shut up then they probably will - but then some other NIMBY will appear. Build as soon as possible because someone will always be out to stop us. For anyone based in Tottenham this is going to be the biggest project in their lifetimes, so there's never going to be a better chance to get out their begging bowls for a backhander. I love the team but we all know deep down Tottenham is a dump, which could be turned into a dump with a large stadium and a new supermarket. This project won't turn Tottenham into Mayfair but the area might get marginally better transport links and a few newer buildings.

 

[Jamturk]

I am now of the belief that 61,000 is too big for us. Apart from the top games we will struggle to exceed 75% capacity.

 

[Dave-F]

I am now of the belief that 61,000 is too big for us. Apart from the top games we will struggle to exceed 75% capacity.

Depends how they price the tickets TBH. Reckon they could get 90%+ on all PL games if they come up with a sensible pricing structure for the B & C games and looked at the season ticket prices more seats in lower cost areas of the stadium carefully. There's enough people who support Spurs who want to go to games that don't or more reguklarly. I'd count myself as someone who would go from irregular goer to possible seaon ticket holder with a bigger stadium with sensible pricing structure.

 

[Dave-F]

I don't live there, but I do a fair amount surveys for housing associations & housing charities in the area. Tottenham isn't the dump that you all make it out to be...compared to other areas I go to regularly anyway, like Brixton, parts of Luton or parts of Barnet. It could be a lot better though and the stadium and other plans will give it the two things it really needs, i.e. a focal point and better transport links.

The point Spurs have made about safe access is key really. If it's unsafe for thousands of fans to get safely into the stadium then things will need to be done to sort that out. Especially in the light of current security issues...having a massive bottle neck I'd imagine is a security persons worst nightmare!. The council will need to look at options and decide which is most reasonable. Thwe cookie will crumble and we'll take it from there.

As far as the business go, unless it's somthing related to the land itself (e.g. farming) then business can be relocated...which will require compensation, but that's do-able.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I don't recall Arsenal or Citeh having any of these issues

I know nothing about Manchester City, except that the city council actually built the stadium, not the club, but Arsenal had a total fucking nightmare that lasted many years.

Some of it was self-inflicted. They got Islington Council onside, but pissed off a lot of local residents long-term by failing to deliver on promises to sort out parking and access. And their original land acquisition battles made our shenanigans with Archway look like a piece of piss.

Then their attempt to sell the new flats at Highbury that were supposed to pay off the loans for the Emirates got caught up in the banking crash. That came out all right in the end, but they had a couple of years of shitting themselves and they were unable to refinance the stadium as they had originally intended.

I live 500m from the Emirates. I know of what I speak.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I am now of the belief that 61,000 is too big for us. Apart from the top games we will struggle to exceed 75% capacity.

As I have posted on several occasions, the ideal size for a stadium is not the size that you can fill 100% for every match. Not financially, anyway. You want it full for the big matches and mostly-full for the others.

 

[newbie]

I know nothing about Manchester City, except that the city council actually built the stadium, not the club, but Arsenal had a total fucking nightmare that lasted many years.

Some of it was self-inflicted. They got Islington Council onside, but pissed off a lot of local residents long-term by failing to deliver on promises to sort out parking and access. And their original land acquisition battles made our shenanigans with Archway look like a piece of piss.

Then their attempt to sell the new flats at Highbury that were supposed to pay off the loans for the Emirates got caught up in the banking crash. That came out all right in the end, but they had a couple of years of shitting themselves and they were unable to refinance the stadium as they had originally intended.

I live 500m from the Emirates. I know of what I speak.

Heard the same they had massive problems with finance and it went to the wire a couple of times looked like they were up shit creak. This was from someone who worked on it. I can't remember the exact details as it was on a stag do England were playing and £&@? Me did we drink that day. England were shit I remember that drawing with USA.


Re stadium size it will have a novelty value for a couple of years I would be surprised if it was not nearly full for the first couple of years.

 

[Hoops]

I am now of the belief that 61,000 is too big for us. Apart from the top games we will struggle to exceed 75% capacity.

I disagree. 1000% We have twice as many supporters by most measures as Newcastle yet they bring in 52k a week with a team near the bottom of the league.

We will fill it.

 

[Dennism]

Tottenham is in desperate need of regeneration. Other areas like Stratford have reaped the benefit of it and I cannot understand what objections these dinosaurs have. If they do not have the interests of Tottenham they should go elsewhere.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

The case of the lumber yard is nothing to do with the new ground .

If the compensation was ample the incumbents would probably take it .

.

Like Archway took the more than fair offer?

People just get greedy.

 

[N17Jack]

People always get a bit scared of change, its understandable really. However this stadium will be built, the project so large and significant as to render irrelevant the loss of a lumber yard (are we in America?). True this will cause the 28 employees inconvenience but is set to create 3500 new jobs and regenerate an area that really needs it. I hope everybody that is forced to face change ends up with a better quality of life, but you cannot stop this now.

 

[Sir Henry]

Cant please everyone. People love to fucking moan and there's always one prick who cant keep his mouth shut. It's happening, they had better get used to it.