Player Watch Player Watch: Son Heung-min

[spurs mental]

I don't know why but I just don't like him, maybe it's because he's so flaky

I think this might be the single worst post I've ever seen on this forum, and that takes some doing. Well done you

 

[Russ1201]

Whats the chances of Son signing a new contract, after are disgrace performances and results and not spending a penny in the transfer window.

 

[dude573]

What can we expect from Son if Jose has him playing with his back to goal trying to win long balls?

 

[BringBack_leGin]

So Kane is irreplaceable, therefore Son is more replaceable? I guess so, but I'm still not sure who we could replace him with that would be achievable and as good or better?

I haven't seen reports that Son is asking/demanding the same package as Kane - if that is true then his advisors need to be told to calm down.

Like I said, I don’t want to replace Son, but I don’t think he justifies being given the same packet as Kane, so if that’s what he wants and he doesn’t get it, what will be will be. Don’t want him to go, but if the funds were invested well (big if admittedly) than that wouldn’t be an awful trade off IF he’s not happy signing whatever we’re offering.

He’s not at ‘break the bank come what may’ status in my book. Only Kane is.

 

[weststandyid]

slightly concerning that we're creating so few 'good' goal scoring chances. hopefully won't catch up with us.

this is what happens when your only form of goalscoring is sitting back and counter attacking (especially with a very suspect defence). no surprise what's happening.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

When was the last time this guy controlled a football or found a team mate with a pass?

Clearly hyperbole, but he’s taking his switch flicking approach to form to new extremes now, going from best guessed in the league after ten games to one of the worst in the next ten.

Three goals in ten games and none in the last five, you can blame the deterioration of the side all you want but if you’re a top class forward, like Kane is, you find a way to contribute even if the side is playing poorly. I could easily forgive the lack of goals if his performances were actually contributing in some other way, either through closing down, creativity or leadership (which at his age and how long he’s been here he should be bringing), but none of that has been there.

You need your best players to step up and even make sure they are doing the right things when off form. Robbie Keane even off form could never be accused of ignoring the fundamentals. Same goes for Dembele, Walker and Modric. Son to my mind has done exactly this when we’ve needed him most lately, he’s been every bit as atrocious as Bale or Lucas but with much more game time to work his way into form, and it’s the reason why he’sa good player who has purple patches, not a great player. He’s 28, he should be consistently better now. It’s gone to extremes this season, he started with probably his best ever form and is now in his worst ever form.

 

[jurgen]

Talk of selling Son is frankly laughable, talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. He's the second to last player we should countenance selling to rebuild.

He's played well before leading the line under Poch where we played a fluid attacking game as a result, but his current manager can only conceive of bypassing midfield to a big man so he's never going to play that role again. Son is absolutely deadly running onto through balls and I can recall only one time yesterday when we produced a piece of play that looked to get him in a favourable position but Vinicius decided not to pass and run straight into a defender instead. Obviously Kane's intelligence is therefore key to unlocking Son's game but coaching some, any, attacking patterns could also help. Where is the service - we have no midfield just 7 defenders and then a huge patch of grass.

In comparisons it's easy to forget how many chances Sterling, Salah and Mane often need - Mane missed a big opportunity early on against us - but they play in a team that can consistently generate them and he got his goal. Mane probably had more chances made for him in that one game than our entire team has in the last three games.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Talk of selling Son is frankly laughable, talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. He's the second to last player we should countenance selling to rebuild.

He's played well before leading the line under Poch where we played a fluid attacking game as a result, but his current manager can only conceive of bypassing midfield to a big man so he's never going to play that role again. Son is absolutely deadly running onto through balls and I can recall only one time yesterday when we produced a piece of play that looked to get him in a favourable position but Vinicius decided not to pass and run straight into a defender instead. Obviously Kane's intelligence is therefore key to unlocking Son's game but coaching some, any, attacking patterns could also help. Where is the service - we have no midfield just 7 defenders and then a huge patch of grass.

In comparisons it's easy to forget how many chances Sterling, Salah and Mane often need - Mane missed a big opportunity early on against us - but they play in a team that can consistently generate them and he got his goal. Mane probably had more chances made for him in that one game than our entire team has in the last three games.

Who is talking about selling Son?

If you mean me, all I’ve said just now is that his firm is atrocious but that gets overlooked compared to other players, both by the manager and by the supporters. And a few days ago I said that if what it takes to keep him (he has two years left this summer) is to give him parity with Kane, then he doesn’t justify that in my opinion.

If you’ve inferred that I’d want him sold, that’s your misconception, not my implication. If you didn’t mean me and have seen it days elsewhere then I apologise for my own poor inference,

 

[SpartanSpur]

Levy bottled it on renewing his contract when we were flying. He is going to regret that decision.

 

[spursfan77]

I thought last night was his best game for a while. At least he looked like he was trying. He does look lost though I must say.

 

[jurgen]

Who is talking about selling Son?

If you mean me, all I’ve said just now is that his firm is atrocious but that gets overlooked compared to other players, both by the manager and by the supporters. And a few days ago I said that if what it takes to keep him (he has two years left this summer) is to give him parity with Kane, then he doesn’t justify that in my opinion.

If you’ve inferred that I’d want him sold, that’s your misconception, not my implication. If you didn’t mean me and have seen it days elsewhere then I apologise for my own poor inference,

I suppose I'm a bit confused as you've repeatedly spoken about this 'parity with Kane' element as a reason we wouldn't keep him, but I haven't seen anything about this in the press - another poster asked about this the other day. It's very possible I've missed that, in which case fine (I would of course ask what an equivalent replacement would want in salary), but I was wondering why you're taking such a hard stance on what appears to be a fictional contract situation?

On the first point he is objectively not playing well at the moment but watching the rest of the team setup it's not hard to see why. Conflating him with Bale and Moura seems a little over the top.

 

[dtxspurs]

When was the last time this guy controlled a football or found a team mate with a pass?

Clearly hyperbole, but he’s taking his switch flicking approach to form to new extremes now, going from best guessed in the league after ten games to one of the worst in the next ten.

Three goals in ten games and none in the last five, you can blame the deterioration of the side all you want but if you’re a top class forward, like Kane is, you find a way to contribute even if the side is playing poorly. I could easily forgive the lack of goals if his performances were actually contributing in some other way, either through closing down, creativity or leadership (which at his age and how long he’s been here he should be bringing), but none of that has been there.

You need your best players to step up and even make sure they are doing the right things when off form. Robbie Keane even off form could never be accused of ignoring the fundamentals. Same goes for Dembele, Walker and Modric. Son to my mind has done exactly this when we’ve needed him most lately, he’s been every bit as atrocious as Bale or Lucas but with much more game time to work his way into form, and it’s the reason why he’sa good player who has purple patches, not a great player. He’s 28, he should be consistently better now. It’s gone to extremes this season, he started with probably his best ever form and is now in his worst ever form.

My issue with this is the setup.. Son has historically been fantastic without Kane as we were able to find a way to make him the focal point of the attack and we were still able to provide him good service. He's a player who thrives off people being able to create for him... He's been left out to dry under the current setup and I have a hard time blaming any of our attackers for their form right now. It genuinely looks like Mourinho just sets them up and says good luck.

 

[John48]

Son is being asked to play wide left & spends more time tracking back & covering the LB than attacking.

For me Son has to play closer to CV for flick-ons to give us better attacking options & Jose needs to find a formation that supports this rather than one that might make us more difficult to score against, but makes very from an attacking viewpoint.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I suppose I'm a bit confused as you've repeatedly spoken about this 'parity with Kane' element as a reason we wouldn't keep him, but I haven't seen anything about this in the press - another poster asked about this the other day. It's very possible I've missed that, in which case fine (I would of course ask what an equivalent replacement would want in salary), but I was wondering why you're taking such a hard stance on what appears to be a fictional contract situation?

On the first point he is objectively not playing well at the moment but watching the rest of the team setup it's not hard to see why. Conflating him with Bale and Moura seems a little over the top.

It’s not anything he or the press has said, more the posters in this place that if you look back through this thread regularly say thing like ‘give him what he wantsa’ or ‘should be on the same as Kane’ or ‘best player at the clubs’, with I quite clearly think is a load of bollocks.

Anyway, I do think he’s amongst the best of the rest at the club and is a player I’d prefer to keep, but honestly, I’m frustrated by yet another session of him raising expectations then going totally off the boil. When he’s at his best he’s a superb player, but when he’s bad, he’s real bad, and that’s something that has been occurring from long before our decline in Pochettino’s final 12 months.

He’s far from the problem, but he’s a mostly 7/10 player who hits patches of 9-10/10 form but also patches of 2-3/10 form. Not convinced that this is preferable to having a player who’s also mostly 7/10, with only odd 8-9/10 match but also never really worse than a 6/10 either. Mitigating circumstances (tactics, motivation, etc) accepted but it’s not as if this hasn’t always been Son, it’s just further magnified but quite how well he started the season and quite how far he’s dipped.

There are 20 players in our first team squad I would see go before Son. But IF he thinks like some on here that he should be treated the same as Kane, and the club disagree, then this summer as a 29 year old with two years left on his deal and huge marketability, I’d understand why the club might make an unpopular decision.

My issue with this is the setup.. Son has historically been fantastic without Kane as we were able to find a way to make him the focal point of the attack and we were still able to provide him good service. He's a player who thrives off people being able to create for him... He's been left out to dry under the current setup and I have a hard time blaming any of our attackers for their form right now. It genuinely looks like Mourinho just sets them up and says good luck.

I agree with this to an extent, and my stomach churned at seeing him fighting for long backs against Brighton huge centre backs the other day, but Kane (sometimes too much) finds ways to involve himself and try to drive us when the chips our down. Son is meant to be our next catalyst after Kane, so why isn’t he doing this? More to the point, why are simple things like finding a team mate and controlling a simple pass a struggle for him? If it’s a confidence thing, that’s an issue in itself as he should’ve been flying after his start to the season.

He is what he is, a good player who goes through some patches of phenomenal form and other patches of laughable form. Frankly, this past ten matches he’s been at least as bad if not worse than a lot of players getting pilloried on this site, so what I’d personally like is to see those players either get more understanding as frankly, if their expectations are lower than Son’s anyway, it begins to look like malice for malice sake.

 

[14/04/91]

Son is being asked to play wide left & spends more time tracking back & covering the LB than attacking.

For me Son has to play closer to CV for flick-ons to give us better attacking options & Jose needs to find a formation that supports this rather than one that might make us more difficult to score against, but makes very from an attacking viewpoint.

And it looked like he's had enough of that role, judging by the 1st half last night. Davies was overloaded time and time again.

Son was grafting for the cause against City, Chelsea (a) and Arsenal. He doesn't seem as committed to this approach now. Personally I can't blame him, he's an attacker not a wide midfielder.

 

[dtxspurs]

I agree with this to an extent, and my stomach churned at seeing him fighting for long backs against Brighton huge centre backs the other day, but Kane (sometimes too much) finds ways to involve himself and try to drive us when the chips our down. Son is meant to be our next catalyst after Kane, so why isn’t he doing this? More to the point, why are simple things like finding a team mate and controlling a simple pass a struggle for him? If it’s a confidence thing, that’s an issue in itself as he should’ve been flying after his start to the season.

He is what he is, a good player who goes through some patches of phenomenal form and other patches of laughable form. Frankly, this past ten matches he’s been at least as bad if not worse than a lot of players getting pilloried on this site, so what I’d personally like is to see those players either get more understanding as frankly, if their expectations are lower than Son’s anyway, it begins to look like malice for malice sake.

I think another piece of this is of course goals are important but he's chipped in with like 5 assists in that time frame. So he's been offering something... unlike most.

 

[razzmaster]

Son is being asked to play wide left & spends more time tracking back & covering the LB than attacking.

For me Son has to play closer to CV for flick-ons to give us better attacking options & Jose needs to find a formation that supports this rather than one that might make us more difficult to score against, but makes very from an attacking viewpoint.

If you look at Sterling, Mane and Rashford they all play in systems designed to have them as high up the pitch as possible.

Son has been fantastic this season, but I still don't think we are getting the best out of him.

We could easily replicate the Liverpool system and I'm pretty sure that would benefit whoever is asked to play the Salah role as well, whether that is Bale, Moura or Bergwijn.

 

[nailsy]

And it looked like he's had enough of that role, judging by the 1st half last night. Davies was overloaded time and time again.

Son was grafting for the cause against City, Chelsea (a) and Arsenal. He doesn't seem as committed to this approach now. Personally I can't blame him, he's an attacker not a wide midfielder.

He looks like he needs a rest. It's a shame that we don't have City's resources so that we could rotate without seeing a drop off in performances. Although thinking about it, I don't think our performances could drop off any more than they already have

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I think another piece of this is of course goals are important but he's chipped in with like 5 assists in that time frame. So he's been offering something... unlike most.

In the League in the last 10 matches I count 3, the corners v Leeds and Sheffield United and a simple pass sideways to Kane which then saw a 25 yard smack luckily expose the Crystal Palace goalie’s weak wrists... I think we can chalk that one up with Vertonghen and Tom Carroll. Am I missing anything?

I can concede that his set pieces have been good, but his contribution, no, not for me, not this past 10 matches. He’s no less deserving of criticism than Dier, Aurier, Sissoko, Davies etc.

I’m in stormy waters here and I’m uncomfortable making these posts as I don’t want it to seem like I have an axe to grind with a player I actually adore, but being objective I don’t understand how more is not expected of him, yet Lucas and especially Bale are crucified for looking out of sorts despite having no opportunity to get into any rhythm.

If this past ten matches from Son had been from either Dele or Bale they’d be getting pelters on here. However bad the system, the tactics, the managers impressions of Shrek might be, this has not been anywhere near good enough from someone widely regarded as amongst our best players, and by some as our best player. Not even close.

 

[dtxspurs]

In the League in the last 10 matches I count 3, the corners v Leeds and Sheffield United and a simple pass sideways to Kane which then saw a 25 yard smack luckily expose the Crystal Palace goalie’s weak wrists... I think we can chalk that one up with Vertonghen and Tom Carroll. Am I missing anything?

I can concede that his set pieces have been good, but his contribution, no, not for me, not this past 10 matches. He’s no less deserving of criticism than Dier, Aurier, Sissoko, Davies etc.

I’m in stormy waters here and I’m uncomfortable making these posts as I don’t want it to seem like I have an axe to grind with a player I actually adore, but being objective I don’t understand how more is not expected of him, yet Lucas and especially Bale are crucified for looking out of sorts despite having no opportunity to get into any rhythm.

If this past ten matches from Son had been from either Dele or Bale they’d be getting pelters on here. However bad the system, the tactics, the managers impressions of Shrek might be, this has not been anywhere near good enough from someone widely regarded as amongst our best players, and by some as our best player. Not even close.

My bad, was going off some stats I saw before the game that didn't apply under the 10 game number you were working off.

I'm to the point where I just can't criticize any player under this attacking "system". Lucas is totally useless, Bergwijn is largely useless when it comes to scoring & assisting, Lamela, Bale, Vinicius. Every one of them looks like crap for the most part and that all falls to one person for me.