Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[SpartanSpur]

Desperate to see Ndombele succeed as its clear he is an unbelievable talent but its also been evident his fitness and effort levels leave a lot to be desired. This is pretty indisputable IMO, although injuries could have played a part.

I'm not going to slaughter Jose over it today. I'm not sure I'd have risked him at 1-0 either. It was a must win game. I probably would have liked to see him come on vs Utd but again I think Jose knew he couldn't risk losing the game and needed to keep his defensive shield.

Hopefully we don't get any reasonable bids in the summer, he knuckles down and comes good. He has done so in the past, and many players take a year or so to get used to the pace of the league. I think his entourage are working overdrive ahead of the summer but I don't know if there'll be the market for it. I don't think Levy will sell cheap.

After Bayern away I thought Gio was done for but he's completely won Jose over, so there's still hope.

 

[KikoSpurs]

Ngl but the way the game was going I wouldn't risk putting him on the pitch.

If we were 3x0 with 15 minutes to go perhaps he would make a cameo.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I swear the reports were that Ndombele didn't warm up during the game (as he wasn't going to come on), not before the game.

 

[ClintEastwould]

But if he needs a DM to cover for him, and the manager hasn't got a single senior DM in the entire squad, what is the manager supposed to do?

Ndombele needs to prove that he can stay switched on when off the ball. Until he does that I think it's justifiable to leave him out.

Both of these are true. I sincerely hope we don’t let him slip through our grasp though. At this point no matter how much physical conditioning we make him do its apparent that he’s just not a powerhouse. He needs a dedicated DM next to him and we just don’t have that at the moment. I so want him to flourish with us because guaranteed if he moves on we will look like mugs when he’s killing it at juventus etc.

 

[rabbikeane]

Articles going around now that he refuse to play under Mourinho again. If true then I think it will be difficult to get our money back in current climate. Will probably have to see if the big bois want him and try to get a swap deal. Hakimi?

 

[dtxspurs]

French reporter for Footmercato saying PSG are interested in Ndombele.

 

[karennina]

Articles going around now that he refuse to play under Mourinho again.

That's the thing he can't do. The club can hold him in breech of contract. And he nukes his career prospects with other clubs. Hence he has to turn up and sit on the bench.

 

[Spursmatty87]

Some people are saying we need a DM to play along side him but that’s nonsense LoCelso plays the 8 role(bloody well). So the reality is that if he really wants to play for us then he needs to step it up and prove that he can play next to LoCelso.

Personally I’d sell not because he isn’t talented but because we need in other areas more.

 

[Deleted member 29446]

Some people are saying we need a DM to play along side him but that’s nonsense LoCelso plays the 8 role(bloody well). So the reality is that if he really wants to play for us then he needs to step it up and prove that he can play next to LoCelso.

Personally I’d sell not because he isn’t talented but because we need in other areas more.

What a lot of bollocks!

 

[Deleted member 27995]

What a lot of bollocks!

Why is it a load of bollocks? Where did he play for Lyon?

 

[spursfan77]

Desperate to see Ndombele succeed as its clear he is an unbelievable talent but its also been evident his fitness and effort levels leave a lot to be desired. This is pretty indisputable IMO, although injuries could have played a part.

I'm not going to slaughter Jose over it today. I'm not sure I'd have risked him at 1-0 either. It was a must win game. I probably would have liked to see him come on vs Utd but again I think Jose knew he couldn't risk losing the game and needed to keep his defensive shield.

Hopefully we don't get any reasonable bids in the summer, he knuckles down and comes good. He has done so in the past, and many players take a year or so to get used to the pace of the league. I think his entourage are working overdrive ahead of the summer but I don't know if there'll be the market for it. I don't think Levy will sell cheap.

After Bayern away I thought Gio was done for but he's completely won Jose over, so there's still hope.

Great post. I don’t think him and lo celso can play in the same team together without a defensive midfielder, get one of those in the summer and things might change. He’s an expensive sub if not.

Some people are saying we need a DM to play along side him but that’s nonsense LoCelso plays the 8 role(bloody well). So the reality is that if he really wants to play for us then he needs to step it up and prove that he can play next to LoCelso.

Personally I’d sell not because he isn’t talented but because we need in other areas more.

If we get a decent offer we should cash in. He’s not physically and mentally up to the premier league. That’s more than obvious. It’s been a disaster of a transfer.

I don’t know what can be said now that hasn’t been said before about him. Except people who want Mourinho out, are using him not being played as a way to undermine the manager. Who, by the way, gave the perfect response when asked about it after the game. I suspect he, like me, thinks it’s disrespectful to those that did play and won us the game.

 

[rajmak]

I think towards end of last week I saw newspaper reports saying Spurs have decided they will not sell Ndombele next season and believe he will eventually justify his transfer fee. I think there was some kind of line saying Jose must work out a way to use him.

Following this Jose doesn't use him at all against WH, says in the press conference he didn't need him for the two games played so far and now you have the story reporting he wants to leave.

I think Jose will continue to be stubborn and not play him and he will be sold in the summer if Levy can claw back most of the money we paid for him.

Its just our luck we signed one of Europe's most wanted midfielders for a record fee and it just has not worked out.

 

[HedgieSpur]

He's clearly talented but Jose and some of our fans have decided that he's "lazy" (not true imo) "doesn't care" (also not true imo). Its the stereotype that was regularly trotted out for certain types of players in the past and continues to be the case. If I was his agent, I would get him to move to a club where his skills and talents are appreciated by the manager and the fans.

At the end of the day, Jose is entitled to run the squad as he sees fit. I personally think he's got this one wrong (as his did Salah and De Bruyne) and that Ndombele has a good chance of going to play in a CL team. That would work out more preferable for him anyway, given that we are going to have a very tough time getting back into CL.

Either way, Jose will stake his reputation on certain players that he likes (Dier, Alli) and we will see how successful we end up being under him. Way too early to make any meaningful judgement either way on that yet.

 

[HedgieSpur]

I think towards end of last week I saw newspaper reports saying Spurs have decided they will not sell Ndombele next season and believe he will eventually justify his transfer fee. I think there was some kind of line saying Jose must work out a way to use him.

Following this Jose doesn't use him at all against WH, says in the press conference he didn't need him for the two games played so far and now you have the story reporting he wants to leave.

I think Jose will continue to be stubborn and not play him and he will be sold in the summer if Levy can claw back most of the money we paid for him.

Its just our luck we signed one of Europe's most wanted midfielders for a record fee and it just has not worked out.

Its nothing to do with luck, its planning.

 

[spursfan77]

He's clearly talented but Jose and some of our fans have decided that he's "lazy" (not true imo) "doesn't care" (also not true imo). Its the stereotype that was regularly trotted out for certain types of players in the past and continues to be the case. If I was his agent, I would get him to move to a club where his skills and talents are appreciated by the manager and the fans.

At the end of the day, Jose is entitled to run the squad as he sees fit. I personally think he's got this one wrong (as his did Salah and De Bruyne) and that Ndombele has a good chance of going to play in a CL team. That would work out more preferable for him anyway, given that we are going to have a very tough time getting back into CL.

So you think he’s capable of playing 90 minutes despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? Where does he play? Who’s place does he take without leaving us with a Swiss cheese of a midfield?

You mention certain players were called the same as him. I’m assuming you mean players like Le Tissier? He had a whole Southampton team arranged to benefit him. He was an amazing talent. No way do we change our whole team to accommodate ndombele. He’s shown absolutely nothing to prove he needs that kind of respect.

 

[jay2040]

I have no problem with Winks.

But I know a world class player when I see one.

Are you a football scout?

 

[E17yid]

He's testing him. He doesn't believe he's quite ready to do the job so he wants more.
He wants to know if this is just a short term change in application or if the penny has really dropped.

Most coaches won't give a player minutes just cause he's been working harder for a couple of weeks. They need to show that they keep working and don't start sulking cause they didn't get a chance. Jose needs to know he can truly trust him.

I’m conflicted on this point. On the one hand you’re totally right and this attitude seems perfectly reasonable but the other side of me thinks that this attitude or man management skills are a bit out dated when dealing with multi millionaire footballer egos.

The other thing that makes me think is Poch was renowned for saying “players sign contracts to train not to play football matches” so it’s not like Poch would’ve been happy to start him (as he did as soon as he came here) if he was completely slacking in training or maybe he would as he was his number one signing?

I just think this trust thing maybe goes both ways and being totally frozen out (which is what it seems like he’s doing at the moment) seems counter productive. Hopefully it isn’t and it gives him the kick up the arse he wants but I just think an arm round him and a few minutes off the bench might help matters more.

Having said all that I accept Mourinho obviously knows a shit load more than me and has a fuck tonne more information about him than I do but as a layman looking in from the outside, as I said a few days ago, I have major doubts he’s ever going to turn it around with Mourinho which I wouldn’t normally mind as no player is bigger than the badge and that is obviously still true with Ndombele but the guy just looks so fucking amazingly talented whenever he has played for us (though clearly there’s some application issues) that it will just be such a waste of a talent, a talent with a skill set we’ve really really missed since Dembele left.

 

[HedgieSpur]

So you think he’s capable of playing 90 minutes despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? Where does he play? Who’s place does he take without leaving us with a Swiss cheese of a midfield?

You mention certain players were called the same as him. I’m assuming you mean players like Le Tissier? He had a whole Southampton team arranged to benefit him. He was an amazing talent. No way do we change our whole team to accommodate ndombele. He’s shown absolutely nothing to prove he needs that kind of respect.

I choose to look at it the other way. I think he's capable of more than sitting on a bench. I think he's capable of more than being treated disrespectfully by manager and fans. As for "overwhelming evidence"...you can't have it both ways. He's barely played and yet you cite "overwhelming evidence".

Personally, I'd play him as a 10. I think he has great ability to see a pass, he's very skilful, can shoot and can dribble also. He's also clearly shed some weight and looks much leaner than when he first came (this is purportedly the guy who is "lazy" and "doesn't care". I'd rotate him with Alli. Maybe start with bringing him on with 20-30 mins left and take it from there.

As I said, Jose has the right to do what he pleases, but my own opinion is that Tanguy has shown enough to warrant some time on the pitch.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

His last two outings in the league were Wolves and Burnley - how does he merit time on the pitch after those performances?

 

[LeParisien]

I vastly prefer the theory of Ndombele to Sissoko or Winks but those two at least run themselves into the ground for the team, as does Dele (who has more than enough credit in the bank considering what he’s shown he’s capable of across several seasons). Ndombele has shown that he has unbelievable ability but also that he runs out of puff after a quarter of the match. That is why it’s his fault, because that is inexcusable, regardless of adapting to a new league.

I’d have no issue with him being off the pace (besides, I don’t think we wasn’t) and out of rhythm, what I have issue with it people raging about him not playing and saying that it’s because Mourinho doesn’t like flair players. Today we started with Son, Dele, Lucas and Lo Celso on the pitch, what a bunch of workhorses right? No, they’re all attacking, skilful, entertaining players. They just also happen to have shown themselves to to be dedicated, professional and hard working. Ndombele didn’t with his fitness levels, so that’s why it’s on him. He might have addressed that now, but that gives him no divine right to play, he’ll play if and when the manager trusts that him to play and if that never happens, well he should’ve been able to last a half of football when he was needed to while our squad was decimated by injuries pre lockdown.

You ignored my point about him needing time to adjust in a new league. It’s very common that players take time.

His fitness didn’t seem to be where it needed to be. Sure. But Mourinho has said he is happy with how he has trained over confinement and Christ, that was a long time ago now that he was puffing. He needs minutes to acclimatise and the bottom line is treating him like this is self-evidently not getting the best out of him.

So if we’re not getting the best out of Ndombele then there are three possibilities...

1) it is not possible to get the best out of him. He’s unmanageable and a Ballotelli-type character.

2) it is not possible to get peak Ndombele now but by managing him this way we will see peak Ndombele in the future.

3) a different approach is required.

2 is a possibility. No one can say for sure. But he doesn’t have a great record this decade at coaxing the best out of players. He did with Hazard. But since then, and especially at United, he struggled, especially with bigger names.

I think a different approach is required and he is an arm round the shoulder kind of player who needs minutes and patience.

We will see...