Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[SpartanSpur]

As I said a couple of weeks back, the situation pre-lockdown would have had his Spurs career under Mourinho hanging on by a thread and I mused that Jose may well hold him back and see just how hard the guy will work to get himself right because he was keeping him involved before and not really getting the reaction he wanted from Ndombele. It's not really that surprising.

He's going to be made to jump through hoops and really prove he wants it, and is capable of being focused and disciplined and apply himself 24/7 in all aspects of what you need to do as a pro footballer. Fitness/diet, training standards, commitment and effort, and then all of that and more if/when you're selected and get out on the pitch.

Unfortunately he seems to have his entourage in his ear 24/7 talking of PSG and Barcelona. Sounds like a great escape plan to me, much easier than what he needs to do to potentially win Jose over.

The way Gio responded to Jose's challenge has made things much harder for Tanguy. He really knuckled down and proved he wanted it. At one point before January I was convinced Jose was going to sacrifice GLC to fund additions elsewhere in the team. This may well have to happen with Ndombele this summer if PSG or Barca come knocking with big offers. It sucks but in the position we are in we may have to do it. Ndombele is only going to be useful to us if we can put a fully functional team around him.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

Jose and Tanguy had a frank discussion in recent weeks where the air was cleared. There are no issues between the two now. There was at first though.

What a relief!

 

[daryl hannah]

Between Dragon 1's update (that was deleted) and this Tottboys update it does sound like he;s staying.

 

[double0]

I really don't believe all the assumptions made that Ndombele isnt working hard what's to leave or being influenced by the media in France. Mourinho called him out, he has history doing this to players. Ndombele hasn't started a game since the restart his our record signing ffs how is he supposed to integrate when his being played only if we're losing. Kane over the years has earned the right to be picked even when not fully match fit, his given the games to work upto match fitness.

I dont get it, our midfield lacks creativity and a defensive structure and if Kane doesn't score from his own efforts were doomed.

 

[Albertbarich]

I still have faith. He is so talented we just need to get it out of him.

I'm aware of tactical reasons defensively and what not but he would start iver sissoko every day of the week for me. Imagine him and lo celso playing in front of a dm.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Is this the case? Are you basing this on the whole "if he's not flying in training he's not going to get picked" view? Im only asking because, Jose strikes me as a man who doesn't quite work like that. He has a system and he has very definite ideas of the type of player to play in that system. I simply don't think Ndombele is a good fit for Jose and as such, Jose doesn't like him.

Agreed to a certain extent about Jose. But I can’t believe that a 100% fit and focused Ndombele wouldn’t be a Jose kind of player. He’s an incredible, dominating footballer when he wants to be.

It’s clear that Ndombele was a long way off full fitness when Jose arrived and hasn’t yet got fully up to speed. I don’t think we can say that Jose hasn’t tried - even going so far as to take personal training sessions with Ndombele during lockdown. But it seems that the player hasn’t yet applied himself to the extent that he needs to, or hasn’t yet developed the necessary mentality, to win Jose’s faith.

 

[punkisback]

I love all these stories about entourage based on hear say; constant perpetuation of this BS is how a lie begins to be considered the truth!
It's hardly as if he has Joorabchian or Raiola in his close circle.
I do dislike the word entourage and the connotations it has.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I love all these stories about entourage based on hear say; constant perpetuation of this BS is how a lie begins to be considered the truth!
It's hardly as if he has Joorabchian or Raiola in his close circle.
I do dislike the word entourage and the connotations it has.

I imagine someone is talking to the French press after every game he doesn't appear in. I highly doubt the French press have fully fabricated it. Tottenhamboys confirmed the was a problem with Jose before despite it being settled now. It could be external agents acting on behalf of other clubs trying to unsettle the situation. That said many good players are left out of top PL sides every week and very few seem to pop up in the press as much as Tanguy.

As for connotations I hope you aren't going down the lines racism/xenophobia, certainly not the case from my standpoint. Hopefully what Sissoko has said is true and he's just a bit shy, has had some injury issues and has found the transition to life in England and the PL hard to adjust to. The club has hardly been in the best shape for settling in new players.

I hope it all works out well for him here as he is exactly the type of player I like to watch. Plenty of stories of players blossoming after a tough first season in the PL, even at Spurs. I remember there being a similar dilemma over Son at the end of his first season with us. Standing firm was the right thing to do there.

That said from his perspective I can also imagine the escape route to PSG or Barca when we'll be in Europa at best must be very tempting, especially with some history of clashes with Jose. Half of SC seemed happy to drive Kane to Manchester on Thursday night because he 'deserves better', I'm surprised the big Ndombele fans here don't want him to go and be happy elsewhere by the same token, I almost wonder if it's just another stick to beat the current manager with.

 

[emiley heskey]

Sullivan Martinet, a former teammate of Ndombele at Guingamp, explained that the player "did not really give the impression of wanting to surpass oneself" when asked about his release from the club as a youngster.
Prior to his move to Amiens, Ndombele had trials with Caen, Auxerre and Angers but all three elected against offering him a contract due to concerns over his weight.
Having excelled at Amiens after a slow start, the midfielder joined Lyon on a season-long loan deal with a view to a permanent move after catching Bruno Genesio's eye.

Initially starting out in the fifth tier of French football, Ndombele was now shining at the top with seven assists from his 35 league games in the 2017/18 season but he still came in for criticism for his performances and was sometimes left out of the squad or named on the bench.


While his time at Lyon was deemed a huge success, Ndombele did come in for criticism from time to time due to his inconsistent displays as Genesio looked to get the very best out of the player.
The now Beijing Guoan head coach did exactly that and now all will be hoping Mourinho can do the same over the coming months with the highly-rated French international.

Ndombele's Lyon past and the same issues cropping up for Mourinho at Tottenham

Tanguy Ndombele has only completed three full league games for Tottenham since moving from Lyon at the start of July 2019

www.football.london

 

[HedgieSpur]

I imagine someone is talking to the French press after every game he doesn't appear in. I highly doubt the French press have fully fabricated it. Tottenhamboys confirmed the was a problem with Jose before despite it being settled now. It could be external agents acting on behalf of other clubs trying to unsettle the situation. That said many good players are left out of top PL sides every week and very few seem to pop up in the press as much as Tanguy.

As for connotations I hope you aren't going down the lines racism/xenophobia, certainly not the case from my standpoint. Hopefully what Sissoko has said is true and he's just a bit shy, has had some injury issues and has found the transition to life in England and the PL hard to adjust to. The club has hardly been in the best shape for settling in new players.

I hope it all works out well for him here as he is exactly the type of player I like to watch. Plenty of stories of players blossoming after a tough first season in the PL, even at Spurs. I remember there being a similar dilemma over Son at the end of his first season with us. Standing firm was the right thing to do there.

That said from his perspective I can also imagine the escape route to PSG or Barca when we'll be in Europa at best must be very tempting, especially with some history of clashes with Jose. Half of SC seemed happy to drive Kane to Manchester on Thursday night because he 'deserves better', I'm surprised the big Ndombele fans here don't want him to go and be happy elsewhere by the same token, I almost wonder if it's just another stick to beat the current manager with.

The French press (particularly E'quipe) regularly print BS, so I wouldn't put too much store on it. As Ive said previously, we've been garbage on the field and hence its not very surprising that people want to see a creative plays get some minutes here and there. I hope Jose gets rid of him if he isn't in his plans...no good can be had if a disgruntled player is in the squad. What I really don't want to happen is Jose keeps him but scapegoats him in public...he does has form for this.

 

[mpickard2087]

I really don't believe all the assumptions made that Ndombele isnt working hard what's to leave or being influenced by the media in France. Mourinho called him out, he has history doing this to players. Ndombele hasn't started a game since the restart his our record signing ffs how is he supposed to integrate when his being played only if we're losing. Kane over the years has earned the right to be picked even when not fully match fit, his given the games to work upto match fitness.

I dont get it, our midfield lacks creativity and a defensive structure and if Kane doesn't score from his own efforts were doomed.

It's about trust and application first and foremost.

When Mourinho first came in it seems fairly clear, as Poch did before him, that he deemed him not fit enough and wanted a bit more from him. He was in and out of the team at this point. Lo Celso also faced this challenge, and rose to it.

Then we got around Xmas the bit where he had a small injury and cried off from a game. At the same time you had Lamela rising from the treatment table and seeking out Mourinho to say he could play. This is the sort of stuff Mourinho, whether you think it right or wrong, loves and values - players who will give absolutely everything, go beyond it, and sacrifice themselves for the cause. Again it was fairly clear he was a bit miffed about this and the perceived soft mentality.

But even through this, and any public comments and criticism about him, Ndombele was still involved. He was given chances to rectify this...... and then, apart from one pass vs. City, before lockdown we were treated to the infamous Wolves and Burnley cameos. Where improvements in fitness, work rate, attitude, application, mentality, whatever, just seemed to be going nowhere fast.

He got the carrot approach, he didn't respond to it. And as I've said repeatedly prime Mourinho, secure in his career and secure at a strong club, would probably have bombed him out on the spot. But that is not the case so he hangs on by a thread. Now he's being made to jump through hoops and show he wants it before getting a chance. And I don't think it's even about on the pitch performances, its about how he approaches life 24/7 as a footballer and showing the correct discipline towards it - getting himself fitter, diet, consistent application and work rate, day in day out. When he shows that he'll start getting football matches.

 

[HedgieSpur]

He went from 5th tier in French football to Ligue 1...this from a guy that is supposedly lazy and a bad attitude? Hmm

 

[SpartanSpur]

The French press (particularly E'quipe) regularly print BS, so I wouldn't put too much store on it. As Ive said previously, we've been garbage on the field and hence its not very surprising that people want to see a creative plays get some minutes here and there. I hope Jose gets rid of him if he isn't in his plans...no good can be had if a disgruntled player is in the squad. What I really don't want to happen is Jose keeps him but scapegoats him in public...he does has form for this.

I agree I was never comfortable with him doing that in the past. Hopefully now there is a bit more peer pressure amongst the players building to stop him from having to do that with anyone.

It is likely exaggerated in the press I'm sure, not denying that either, but there is usually no smoke without some fire, and we've had ITK and UK sources backing up some of the french media claims (initial falling out and recent Levy meeting).

The optimistic outlook is that Jose is trying to build a solid base to give him the chance to properly bed in. The pessimistic outlook is that they're done and Jose will be looking to cash in. As always the truth will be somewhere in between.

 

[emiley heskey]

He went from 5th tier in French football to Ligue 1...this from a guy that is supposedly lazy and a bad attitude? Hmm

Just check Ndombele's lyon past and you will understand ...

 

[punkisback]

I imagine someone is talking to the French press after every game he doesn't appear in. I highly doubt the French press have fully fabricated it. Tottenhamboys confirmed the was a problem with Jose before despite it being settled now. It could be external agents acting on behalf of other clubs trying to unsettle the situation. That said many good players are left out of top PL sides every week and very few seem to pop up in the press as much as Tanguy.

As for connotations I hope you aren't going down the lines racism/xenophobia, certainly not the case from my standpoint. Hopefully what Sissoko has said is true and he's just a bit shy, has had some injury issues and has found the transition to life in England and the PL hard to adjust to. The club has hardly been in the best shape for settling in new players.

I hope it all works out well for him here as he is exactly the type of player I like to watch. Plenty of stories of players blossoming after a tough first season in the PL, even at Spurs. I remember there being a similar dilemma over Son at the end of his first season with us. Standing firm was the right thing to do there.

That said from his perspective I can also imagine the escape route to PSG or Barca when we'll be in Europa at best must be very tempting, especially with some history of clashes with Jose. Half of SC seemed happy to drive Kane to Manchester on Thursday night because he 'deserves better', I'm surprised the big Ndombele fans here don't want him to go and be happy elsewhere by the same token, I almost wonder if it's just another stick to beat the current manager with.

I think there have been racial connotations previously; especially with the way the some media treats black players as being "bling or uppity". I mean replace the word with advisors, management company or agents and it is a better fit for this purpose; do you think a professional footballer would ask his mates to advise the press or would it be agents or advisors who look after him. I mean we have had people in this thread refer to him as having a "ghetto attitude"!

 

[Havre]

I haven't given up on N'Dombele and very little would please me more than him stepping up, but how can anyone argue that he hasn't been "lazy" since he joined?

He moves straight into the team. Scores. And even so every single fan I know thinks he looks unfit and fairly early starts to question his willingness to do the "dirty stuff". That is not because of some sort of "old school" bias where one would rather have Toda than N'Dombele, but there is a "floor" as to how little one is willing to do to keep oneself fit and capable of tracking runners etc. from midfield.

When he returns I want him to be fit enough to feel that he can master the game. When/if that happens he will straight away be our best CM. No doubt.

 

[JME-9]

Surely there is nothing to lose by putting him in the cam position

 

[SpartanSpur]

I think there have been racial connotations previously; especially with the way the some media treats black players as being "bling or uppity". I mean replace the word with advisors, management company or agents and it is a better fit for this purpose; do you think a professional footballer would ask his mates to advise the press or would it be agents or advisors who look after him. I mean we have had people in this thread refer to him as having a "ghetto attitude"!

Ok I can see that, I certainly wouldn't use those words! By all accounts he is quite shy and unassuming. Advisors may be better I agree there, the reason I use entourage is because I'm pretty sure that is what the french media quoted as a source before (and I would include agents in that too, quite often these days players have family/friends involved in their management, we seem to try and win favour of players parents quite often, Son being a key example). My point being to try and not accuse him personally of being the one leaking things.

 

[HedgieSpur]

Just check Ndombele's lyon past and you will understand ...

Ive watched him quite a few times and Im a fluent French speaker so have followed his progress and news stories online

 

[Wig]

We're going through a period where Jose is trying to make our defence more solid to build a foundation for the team. In a tough game last night where we had to grind out a solid defensive display and limit Everton's chances, it was notable to see the players that Jose trusts to work hard when not in possession. Many of us are grumbling about Sissoko and even Moura's play when on the ball, but my god they both put a shift in yesterday. Moura was chasing down opposition defenders/midfielders like a mad man. If we were comfortably cruising at 2-0 up then Jose would have felt a bit more comfortable to bring on subs like Tanguy, however with the game on a knife-edge protecting a single goal's advantage you have to be more pragmatic in your selections/subs.

Some might say "We should be more adventurous", "We should be pushing to score more goals, not just trying not to concede" which I understand, but when you've come off a game against Sheffield a few days ago in which we were atrocious defensively in conceding 3 goals, you need to adapt and not be naive. Jose tried to have a more attacking line up against Sheffield and look how that worked out for us.

Anyway, the games are coming thick and fast, and with Bournemouth on Thursday I'm sure we will see Tanguy get time on the pitch. We have to be patient to see the best of Tanguy.