Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[rossdapep]

Tanguy will come good, Mourinho has to resolve himself to help him rather than hurt him. As much as the onus is on the player it’s on the manager too.

Jose HAS tried to help him. He's challenged him, he's done extra work with him during lockdown, he's seeing his limitations every day.

If he's shirking at the challenge or showing anything less than 100% dedication then he's a lost cause.

We haven't the time or energy to waste.

 

[pangtong]

There's a good chance he does end up world class, but it won't be at this club. People always refer back to Chelsea getting rid of KDB and Salah and saying it's too soon to get rid, but they wouldn't have become the players they are if they stayed at Chelsea.

We can't afford to keep him around on the tiny chance he magically turns his attitude around. It's a shame as you can see the talent there, but better to get a replacement in who is guaranteed to give 100%.

 

[felmani26]

Jose HAS tried to help him. He's challenged him, he's done extra work with him during lockdown, he's seeing his limitations every day.

If he's shirking at the challenge or showing anything less than 100% dedication then he's a lost cause.

We haven't the time or energy to waste.

I can't fathom anyone siding with the player over the manager on this issue for the rationale you've illustrated above.

It's not even rateable to Salah/de Bruyne either before the lazy comparisons are made.

 

[emiley heskey]

Please don't compare Salah/De Bryune issue with TN issue .. Complete different issue

 

[thebenjamin]

It's not just the question of getting the fee - will he get the wages elsewhere? He's on over £10m a year. Given he doesn't seem that bothered about not playing, will he actually take an offer on less money?

 

[DanNolan]

all this skrinar swap talk. WHY? is jose gonna drop Toby all of a sudden? or is he gonna drop Dier after getting him a bumper new deal? Sanchez (the guy Ledley has said he's most looking forward to working with and has lots of faith in) is going to be 4th choice now is he? Our former record signing?
Yea lets get rid of a creative midfielder with lots of potential whose having to settle with a place on the bench atm, for another centre back who will mean we have a talented potential cb also bought for over 40m now sitting on the bench every week?

 

[Timberwolf]

It's not just the question of getting the fee - will he get the wages elsewhere? He's on over £10m a year. Given he doesn't seem that bothered about not playing, will he actually take an offer on less money?

This could be a big issue. Levy really bet the house on TN with the contract he gave him. Hard to see even the big clubs coming close to that.

Question is, does TN actually want to make it at the very top or is he just going to rest on his laurels ala Bale/Ozil now that he's on 200k p/w.

That said, knowing Levy there will be a bunch of performance related clauses in there so it might not be quite that much if he's not playing.

 

[rossdapep]

I can't fathom anyone siding with the player over the manager on this issue for the rationale you've illustrated above.

It's not even rateable to Salah/de Bruyne either before the lazy comparisons are made.

United sided with Pogba, Martial et all because they believed the players were world class and just needed more for them to start winning at United.

United just lost 3 semi finals with these players present.

You really have to ask why??

I know Pogba is a WC winner and was great in serie A but he has also proved - in the past and recently - that he has a tendency to lose the ball in precarious positions and lack 'game management'.

And as we found out during the Poch era, you really need players with good game management to win championships and big cups.

You're absolutely right. But some board members and scouts get it on their heads that their identified talent is a sure ticket to win, yet they don't work with the player every day and see the players eyes.

 

[rossdapep]

all this skrinar swap talk. WHY? is jose gonna drop Toby all of a sudden? or is he gonna drop Dier after getting him a bumper new deal? Sanchez (the guy Ledley has said he's most looking forward to working with and has lots of faith in) is going to be 4th choice now is he? Our former record signing?
Yea lets get rid of a creative midfielder with lots of potential whose having to settle with a place on the bench atm, for another centre back who will mean we have a talented potential cb also bought for over 40m now sitting on the bench every week?

I agree. If he goes we need another creative midfielder

 

[fridgemagnet]

Can anyone remind me did we not sign Bruno because we signed GLC or because we signed TN?

 

[felmani26]

United sided with Pogba, Martial et all because they believed the players were world class and just needed more for them to start winning at United.

United just lost 3 semi finals with these players present.

You really have to ask why??

I know Pogba is a WC winner and was great in serie A but he has also proved - in the past and recently - that he has a tendency to lose the ball in precarious positions and lack 'game management'.

And as we found out during the Poch era, you really need players with good game management to win championships and big cups.

You're absolutely right. But some board members and scouts get it on their heads that their identified talent is a sure ticket to win, yet they don't work with the player every day and see the players eyes.

You also need manager who instills the belief that you can win championships and big cups.

That's not necessarily a dig at Poch but more endorsing Jose and what we are now seeing play out in the transfer market in recruiting the type of player who displays leadership/captaincy characteristics along with buying into his ethos.

 

[rossdapep]

Can anyone remind me did we not sign Bruno because we signed GLC or because we signed TN?

GLC

Can someone tell me, who wanted Ndombele at Inter? The board? Or Conte?

 

[Yiddo100]

Can anyone remind me did we not sign Bruno because we signed GLC or because we signed TN?

Think because eriksen didn’t leave and we had GLC and ndombele

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This is the one thing that most fans and good managers hate the most, a lack of professionalism and effort. Jose has said it time and time again if a players misses a chance or a penalty etc etc no problem it happens, but if a player isn't willing to put in the require effort and have the right attitude that is just inexcusable.

Like with all these things I tried to let it play out a bit and at first was worried this would become another Jose and Pogba situation but the longer things have gone on the more it now seems that unfortunately TN is the issue and his attitude and lack of effort etc as well as his troublesome entourage are making things difficult for Jose so I can 100% see why he wants to move him on. Danny Rose to a lesser extent was similar by running to the papers every other day and Jose just doesn't want that kind of 'risk' and attitude in the squad.

I'm actually glad that it now seems that it is TN who is the problem and not Jose and given that about 99% of the rest of the squad seem to really be completely behind Jose that is really positive and so if Jose is trying to mould a squad to his liking and continue the re-build then we simply must move on TN asap.

For me i've seen two things which made me very worried that the writing could be on the wall with him due to his attitude:
1. The tracking back against Wolves, whether it was due to him not being 100% fit or carrying an injury or just a plain lack of effort that clip which did the rounds on social media was embarrassing, I don't think I've seen any Spurs player show such a lack of effort possibly ever, I genuinely can't think of one.

2. His reaction when anyone gives him the slightest bit of contact is to fall over, hold all sorts of different body parts, rub them better for about 5 minutes, slowly get up and hobble on as if Roy Keane has just two footed him when in actual fact he's barely been touched, sure there are players that need to adapt a bit to the physicality of the league, you could take Modric for example who mabye needed a season or so to get used to it but for me that kind of attitude and reaction is something which in ingrained in him and will be very hard to change and if so he won't suit the PL, he won't suit Jose and he won't suit being a Tottenham player.

You can have as much talent as you like but unless you're putting the required effort in and want to be at the club then it is meaningless and I am now at a point which seems like DL has also reached whereby trying to move him on to get the best deal possible is the best option for the squad and also to try and maximise our effect during this current transfer window.

Thanks for the great info Herc & Trix.

 

[DiVaio]

Yep. It was an easier transfer to get done than expected. I believe Lyon knew all about the issues and were more than happy to float out the idea he was the next big player.

Why didn't PSG come in strongly for him? He was right under their noses.

I'll tell you why because they'd seen his bad games in the smaller ties and knew his history (and entourage).

Also, he'd have been a player right up City's street yet they didn't seem interested at all. Why? Because off the ball he lacks intensity and the drive to win.

But that's not true.
Guardiola wanted him in 2018 but Lyon didn't want to sell and Ndombele didn't want to leave. Next year they bought Rodri who was a better fit for their needs than Ndombele.
PSG didn't come in strongly because in June 2019 they changed their sporting director and previous one wanted Ndombele and new one wanted Sergej Milinkovic-Savic.

 

[Wsussexspur]

GLC

Can someone tell me, who wanted Ndombele at Inter? The board? Or Conte?

The board!

Maybe its because they are the only ones linked with him but think Inter is his most likely destination/ our best chance to get a deal done for him.. Well unless Barca manage to shift a few of their players then wouldn't fully rule them out coming in for him.

 

[rossdapep]

You also need manager who instills the belief that you can win championships and big cups.

That's not necessarily a dig at Poch but more endorsing Jose and what we are now seeing play out in the transfer market in recruiting the type of player who displays leadership/captaincy characteristics along with buying into his ethos.

Exactly.

Imagine you're heading into a semi final. You look at your teammates.

Scenario 1.) You see Ndombele, an utterly brilliant player on the ball, but one who has issues off the ball and you worry he'll tire after 60 mins.

Scenario 2.) You see Ever Banega, a player who isn't the biggest and is considered a creative player but also fights every ball and gets into disputes with the opposition coach.

Who do you choose?

 

[rossdapep]

But that's not true.
Guardiola wanted him in 2018 but Lyon didn't want to sell and Ndombele didn't want to leave. Next year they bought Rodri who was a better fit for their needs than Ndombele.
PSG didn't come in strongly because in June 2019 they changed their sporting director and previous one wanted Ndombele and new one wanted Sergej Milinkovic-Savic.

Well, I didn't know that.

Still they still chose other players instead of revisiting him

 

[bat-chain]

Surely a good manager is one who brings the best out of people, who manages people? Clearly destroying him in the press hasn’t worked for Ndombele? How can Mourinho's approach not be a factor or culpable in that?

People can say it’s not comparable to Salah and KDB and maybe it isn’t. But Ndombele was in the Champions League team of the season before we purchased him. He's an absolute elite level footballer, not some useless chump who might come good, he is good. Our manager needs to work night and day to understand why Ndombele doesn’t want to play for him.

 

[delawarespur]

GLC

Can someone tell me, who wanted Ndombele at Inter? The board? Or Conte?

I think it was conte, and he was also open to letting skriniar go cuz he didn’t fit his system. I agree with your previous point though. I’d much rather a straight sale to fund a creative midfielder purchase or a swap for a creative midfielder.