Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[archiewasking]

TN for Bale..... ?

 

[spids]

I reckon that Pochettino could be about to land a significant job (Inter Milan or PSG), and we might be able to offload Ndombele in his direction.

 

[Goobers]

Am I the only one that doesn't want him to go?

I don't want him to go if whatever problems he has with Jose are ironed out and his effort in training and application improves. If that is not the case then what is the point in him being here ?

 

[ardiles]

If he really wants to leave us , then I think he might accept lower wages from another club, if he’s happy to go there.

 

[leray]

I reckon that Pochettino could be about to land a significant job (Inter Milan or PSG), and we might be able to offload Ndombele in his direction.

Poch wasn't that happy with Ndombele either. The story in the media is Ndombele vs Mourinho, but if I recall correctly, Pochettino has also made some comments about him and wasn't that happy to start him.

 

[kieranfitchett]

Real shame if he is off based purely on his obvious potential, I remember him being brilliant at Norwich away and thinking that would be a real springboard for him but picked up an innocuous injury the very next game.
It’s quite clear to see his attitude stinks, not willing to put in the hard yards and prove himself. I had real high hopes for him as his ability is clear to see. But if there’s no desire from him to prove himself what’s the point? Better to cash in and bring someone in who will make a real impact on the team week in week out than have an outlay of £200k pw who will maybe come good at some point.

 

[Japhet]

Am I the only one that doesn't want him to go?

I don't want him to go, I want him to get his thumb out of his arse and perform like a 200k per week player. If there's any truth in the ITK though, it seems he's just a lazy fucker who doesn't give a toss. That could however be horse shit and I'd much prefer it if we could get him onboard and utilise his incredible talent.

 

[George94]

I reckon that Pochettino could be about to land a significant job (Inter Milan or PSG), and we might be able to offload Ndombele in his direction.

Poch wouldn't go anywhere near Ndombele after seeing how this season has played out - especially if the ITK is correct and he's an utter disgrace in training.

 

[Danfunkel]

We know how talented he is, or can be...but did he have this attitude or laziness problem before we signed him? I’m sure I remember some moaning about his previous.

 

[spids]

We know how talented he is, or can be...but did he have this attitude or laziness problem before we signed him? I’m sure I remember some moaning about his previous.

Yes - there are loads of articles on his problems before his move to Lyon at Amiens.

 

[Gspurs11]

I'm hoping we actually replace him with a player like Sabitzer because if we just rely on what we have already, we'll become slightly stuck against certain opposition where we need a bit more creativity.

 

[rossdapep]

Poch wasn't that happy with Ndombele either. The story in the media is Ndombele vs Mourinho, but if I recall correctly, Pochettino has also made some comments about him and wasn't that happy to start him.

You're right.

First we had the "he is playing at 30% of his potential" comments.

Then we had this after the Liverpool game - https://talksport.com/football/621583/mauricio-pochettino-ndombele-tottenham-against-liverpool/

I imagine he rocked up to preseason and was way off the level of fitness and shape compared to the others.

Now we all know how intense Poch's preseason preparation is. Players going hell for leather and being pushed to the extreme. Can you imagine Ndombele doing the same?? We even had reports that he was struggling in terms of fitness.

By the Liverpool game, I imagine that Poch was just as frustrated as Jose and was probably pushing him just as much behind closed doors.

The difference is Poch made Ndombele his priority signing and number 1 pick, he couldn't come out and criticise him as it would reflect poorly on him. He can't simply discard him either after fighting so hard to get him. I do believe he'd be just as frustrated as Mourinho at this point and would have at some point let something more slip in an interview.

Ndombele wasn't Jose's buy, which means he doesn't feel that his time will be defined on whether he gets a tune out of him or not, his time will be defined on his own signings. Of course Jose is responsible for trying to get the player to fix up but if he doesn't feel he's up to it, it's easier for him to discard him and ask that he's replaced.

 

[DannyNZ]

I’m going to be really stupid here but surely the contract with the player has clauses that cover off the player being fat and lazy and not able to run 50 metres without the need for oxygen.

 

[LondonOllie]

I find situations like this, puzzling. To become an athlete and play/compete at the highest level, requires more than just natural talent. It requires commitment and hard work.

My better half was a very good athlete in multiple sports growing up (team and individual). She competed in high school state championships, the Junior Olympics and got full scholarship offers to division one universities here in the USA. She had to work and train extremely hard to get to that level, and even now, years on, she has the same attitude in both her professional life at work and her personal health and fitness. Fully committed and just naturally driven to give it her all.

So what I don’t get is how does an athlete get to a premier league players level (which is a massive step above my wife and athletes at her level), by being lazy? It’s never made sense to me.

Do they think they’ve ‘made it’ and therefore just take their foot off the gas? Were they always like this and managed to get sporting opportunities from a young age purely on ball skill but limited effort? If it was the latter, you’d think that they would have been weeded out before getting a chance with any half decent, professional football club.

So what’s the deal with him? It’s weird - knowing you’ve got ability to become truly world class in your sport, why wouldn’t you act like a professional and give it 100% to push on to the very top of your game?

Different sport but if you haven’t seen it and want to see an athlete who was a level above everyone around him, go and watch the Michael Jordan documentary ‘The Last Dance’. This is what you want to see and what I’d expect from a world class athlete. Even if you don’t like basketball, it’s an excellent documentary. I’m not saying he’s ever going to get to MJs level, but effort, and the drive/will to be a winner is what you expect and should be expected from all our players, especially the ones on £200k a week!

 

[spids]

I’m going to be really stupid here but surely the contract with the player has clauses that cover off the player being fat and lazy and not able to run 50 metres without the need for oxygen.

If only it was that easy. For example, after he was an unused sub for the 3rd or 4th game running he suddenly felt something in the back of his knee, just as the unused players warm down exercises started after the game. The sort of injury that the physios cannot easily validate.

From what I have seen the problem is as much about his execution of what Jose wants him to do off the ball as it is about fitness. Mainly his urgency to get back into the correct defensive position and then maintain that as play evolves for the opposition. Watching Winks and Sissoko after the restart, they were much more focussed on what to do out of possession than when we had the ball. Their positioning and movement , and choosing when to join a lateral press with a FB, was a big reason for us only conceding 3 goals in 6 games. If Ndombele cannot do that part the role (of a CM in a JM team) then he will never be trusted to play.

I think Jose speaks fluent French, so communication cannot be an issue. His willingness to 'coach' Ndombele 1:1 in lockdown showed he was giving Ndombele a chance to prove himself.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I’m going to be really stupid here but surely the contract with the player has clauses that cover off the player being fat and lazy and not able to run 50 metres without the need for oxygen.

Cancelling his contract would forfeit any resale value.

 

[WiganSpur]

Cancelling his contract would forfeit any resale value.

I think the point is if the bloke can't run because of his attitude and his physical shape then what resale value does he have? Only value I can see is that there would be a very low price where a club might just think the gamble to sort him out was worth it but then would he go to that club, could they pay his wages?

 

[thebenjamin]

Poch wasn't that happy with Ndombele either. The story in the media is Ndombele vs Mourinho, but if I recall correctly, Pochettino has also made some comments about him and wasn't that happy to start him.

Poch said right after we signed him that it could be 2 years before he was adapted to the pl. Which seemed like a weird thing to say after spending so much in his prime target.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I find situations like this, puzzling. To become an athlete and play/compete at the highest level, requires more than just natural talent. It requires commitment and hard work.

My better half was a very good athlete in multiple sports growing up (team and individual). She competed in high school state championships, the Junior Olympics and got full scholarship offers to division one universities here in the USA. She had to work and train extremely hard to get to that level, and even now, years on, she has the same attitude in both her professional life at work and her personal health and fitness. Fully committed and just naturally driven to give it her all.

So what I don’t get is how does an athlete get to a premier league players level (which is a massive step above my wife and athletes at her level), by being lazy? It’s never made sense to me.

Do they think they’ve ‘made it’ and therefore just take their foot off the gas? Were they always like this and managed to get sporting opportunities from a young age purely on ball skill but limited effort? If it was the latter, you’d think that they would have been weeded out before getting a chance with any half decent, professional football club.

So what’s the deal with him? It’s weird - knowing you’ve got ability to become truly world class in your sport, why wouldn’t you act like a professional and give it 100% to push on to the very top of your game?

Different sport but if you haven’t seen it and want to see an athlete who was a level above everyone around him, go and watch the Michael Jordan documentary ‘The Last Dance’. This is what you want to see and what I’d expect from a world class athlete. Even if you don’t like basketball, it’s an excellent documentary. I’m not saying he’s ever going to get to MJs level, but effort, and the drive/will to be a winner is what you expect and should be expected from all our players, especially the ones on £200k a week!

"Do they think they’ve ‘made it’ and therefore just take their foot off the gas?" - THIS!
He's on a £10.4m per year contract. A lot of us would quit our jobs and never go back to work if we won that much on the lottery.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Surely a good manager is one who brings the best out of people, who manages people? Clearly destroying him in the press hasn’t worked for Ndombele? How can Mourinho's approach not be a factor or culpable in that?

People can say it’s not comparable to Salah and KDB and maybe it isn’t. But Ndombele was in the Champions League team of the season before we purchased him. He's an absolute elite level footballer, not some useless chump who might come good, he is good. Our manager needs to work night and day to understand why Ndombele doesn’t want to play for him.

An absolute elite level footballer? We haven’t seen even half decent. He has some skill but I’m not convinced he’s learnt any of the basics. The idea that was going around before he signed that he was a natural replacement for Dembele seems so far off the mark. It’s frustrating because he has natural ability, lots of it clearly, but such a stretch from being an actual elite level footballer.

To attempt to answer someone else’s question on how he could possibly make it to the Premier League level and still be unfit, I think it’s partly to do with how much more talented he probably was coming through. He might have just been so good compared to other players as he was developing that he just coasted. It seems to happen too often to talented younger players. In Tanguys case it seems that when he gets the ball he can just do things naturally that other players can’t but if he hasn’t learnt basic positioning, tracking, doesn’t show for the ball he’s always going to be a step behind. We used to complain about Kyle Walker not reading the game well but being able to make up for it with pace. Tanguy’s reading of the game seems to be far worse but he can’t make it up and then strolls back.

If he has been injured over the break I worry about his ability to get up to speed. I worry he hasn’t been working on learning all the things he needs to work on. I just can’t see how he’s going to turn it around and impress Mourinho if his moments of inspiration on the ball haven’t impressed him yet.