Player Watch Player Watch: Timo Werner

[sparx100]

As a squad bench option for a small fee he'd be absolutely fine, if we are signing his as next seasons starting left winger then whoever is deciding that has gone mad.

My concern is how hard it will be to shift on some of the bloat we have in the squad. No real sell on value either for Werner.

Not for this thread but there is probably about 10 players we really need to shift on to give us a reset for improving our squad.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

eze and olise are much better rounded and more complete footballers than nico williams, i wouldn't even put them in the same category.

city haven't had the style of player you're talking about for years, now they have one in doku who hasn't really contributed much. these players are ok as a wildcard option but they won't be central to their success.

who was our elite 1v1 dribbler in the peak years under poch? we didn't have much problem unlocking low-block teams back then, reason being we had high iq players with high technical quality. not frantic 1v1 dribblers who offer little outside of that.

An elite 1v1 dribbler was one of the missing pieces in that team actually.

And I don’t understand why a 1v1 dribbler has to be frantic as you describe? They can just be direct, dangerous and decisive.

Every single person is in agreement that high iq and technical quality is important but 1v1 ability is absolutely paramount and as I said every top team has players who can dribble 1v1. Some of them are explosive wider players and some are more technical based weavers. Some examples of the former being Saka, Doku, Vinicius Jr and the latter being the likes of Bernardo Silva, Foden, Odegaard etc.

Every single top team has players like this who can beat people and most often they have players of each of the types I discussed above.

We need an explosive winger who can beat people 1v1 and has technical quality. That could be Nico Williams, it could even be someone like Summerville of Leeds who once again tonight has smashed it and got 2 goals.

Alongside that we should look for some technical players who can weave and dribble too, maybe the likes of Gudmondsson would help here.

 

[dontcallme]

My concern is how hard it will be to shift on some of the bloat we have in the squad. No real sell on value either for Werner.

Not for this thread but there is probably about 10 players we really need to shift on to give us a reset for improving our squad.

For me a 1 year season would be the best option if his club would happily take his salary off their books but can't find a suitable buyer.

I know it's not great but a 2 year contract might be a good option for us. We'll lose the £15m but wouldn't be a huge loss.

 

[McFlash]

at our peak(16-17) we were ravaging teams and putting games out of reach before half-time. that was with a front three of eriksen, dele and kane. not much dribbling or pace there.

That's true but Son provided the pace.
But with even that, we still struggled to break down a low-block, everyone does.
One thing I will say though is that the team then had guile, which is something we currently seem to lack

 

[spurs9]

eze and olise are much better rounded and more complete footballers than nico williams, i wouldn't even put them in the same category.

city haven't had the style of player you're talking about for years, now they have one in doku who hasn't really contributed much. these players are ok as a wildcard option but they won't be central to their success.

who was our elite 1v1 dribbler in the peak years under poch? we didn't have much problem unlocking low-block teams back then, reason being we had high iq players with high technical quality. not frantic 1v1 dribblers who offer little outside of that.

Grealish, Mahrez, Sterling, Foden and Gabriel Jesus are all "strong at 1v1s" and played for City over the last 3 seasons.

Dembele.

 

[allatsea]

I doubt he’ll take a big drop. Why would he? Players hardly ever do that. Not when they are in the prime age of their career anyway. Maybe if we offer him a big (as in longer) contract he will. But I really doubt he’s going to take a big pay cut to move here because he loves playing for Spurs so much.

Can't see us signing him on a permanent to be a back up on his supposed high wages.

 

[Styopa]

Can't see us signing him on a permanent to be a back up on his supposed high wages.

Well if we offer him a long enough contract he might drop his salary because three years on say £150k is better than two years on £180k. And it seems like his club want him out so it’s unlikely they’re going to give him a new contract anyway.

I don’t think he would be signed as back-up. He will probably play a similar role to the one he has played this season.

Maybe we can get another loan for him, which would be better. We all know the problems we have with shifting players and I think Werner is exactly the sort of player who in two years time everyone wants sold but we can’t move him on because of his wages.

 

[jolsnogross]

Anthony Gordon has been very impressive this season in a similar role to Werner. Great end product, a major step change improvement from him in one season. He's the model for this position for us I reckon. Smart and efficient on the ball. Doesn't make weird flawed decisions and doesn't panic in front of goal.

 

[Wig]

eze and olise are much better rounded and more complete footballers than nico williams, i wouldn't even put them in the same category.

city haven't had the style of player you're talking about for years, now they have one in doku who hasn't really contributed much. these players are ok as a wildcard option but they won't be central to their success.

who was our elite 1v1 dribbler in the peak years under poch? we didn't have much problem unlocking low-block teams back then, reason being we had high iq players with high technical quality. not frantic 1v1 dribblers who offer little outside of that.

Lucas Moura. Created absolute havoc, not just for the rival defences but also his own teammates who had no idea where he was going

 

[mil1lion]

Lucas Moura. Created absolute havoc, not just for the rival defences but also his own teammates who had no idea where he was going

I was just thinking it's funny how people forget about Moura. I think he was a great option to bring on. Plus he got the legendary hat trick for my favourite moment as a fan. Soloman is probably the most like him but the injuries are an issue.

Thing is with Poch was his fullbacks were like wingers. Walker was the pacey one out wide but Rose had a bit too but was more power than pace. That made the Son pace useful on the left. Werner has the Walker type pace but the wide players need to offer width now with the inverted fullbacks. Johnson has pace wide right too but we lack that dribbler. Kulusevski is one but he lacks pace and plays infield too much. I actually like the mix of Werner and Johnson for pace and Kulusevski and Soloman for trickery in terms of styles. I just think we could do with moving Kulusevski infield and getting another who is quicker and plays wider. Then either move Son left and get a centre forward or get another left attacker. At this moment I would sign Werner and get 2 more attackers.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

eze and olise are much better rounded and more complete footballers than nico williams, i wouldn't even put them in the same category.

city haven't had the style of player you're talking about for years, now they have one in doku who hasn't really contributed much. these players are ok as a wildcard option but they won't be central to their success.

who was our elite 1v1 dribbler in the peak years under poch? we didn't have much problem unlocking low-block teams back then, reason being we had high iq players with high technical quality. not frantic 1v1 dribblers who offer little outside of that.

Poch's system was quite different to Ange's, Poch had wide and high full backs and 2xn.o 10's, Ange has high and wide wingers and 2x tucked in full backs with 2x n.o 8's.

Completely different profile of player needed.

City have had Sane, Sterling, Grealish, Marhez, Foden, B.Silva etc etc who are all good 1v1, we don't particularly have anyone like that.

Werner and Johnson and Son can stretch teams and run in behind but we do lack a good few creative wingers who can unlock things ideally at pace too a la a Marhez type player or Jota at Celtic who thrived under Ange.

I do really like Eze and Olise but Nico Williams is also a class player, all of them each would cost a fortune tbh but we do need 2 top level attacks at that level.

 

[WiganSpur]

I think Werner is probably a deal i'd look to delay as much as possible. For me it depends on the kind of quality we can sign in the forward positions.

Perisic has gone, Bryan will/should go, nobody knows if Solomon is good enough or will be able to feature regularly again. Given Solomon's problems and the fact we're probably in an expanded EL, i'd probably do that deal for Werner eventually. I'd be hoping that he'll take something like a 3 year deal on his current wages.

Ideally for me we sign 2 forwards one left footed one right footed, one of which will be expected to start 80% of games and is of that quality. Striker is high ish on the list but it really doesn't sound like the end of the world if Richarlison and Son are our number 9s next season.

 

[WiganSpur]

eze and olise are much better rounded and more complete footballers than nico williams, i wouldn't even put them in the same category.

city haven't had the style of player you're talking about for years, now they have one in doku who hasn't really contributed much. these players are ok as a wildcard option but they won't be central to their success.

who was our elite 1v1 dribbler in the peak years under poch? we didn't have much problem unlocking low-block teams back then, reason being we had high iq players with high technical quality. not frantic 1v1 dribblers who offer little outside of that.

I'm not sure I quite agree. I think having a bit of variety is nice and good dribblers do commit players sat in low blocks and crucially win free kicks in dangerous areas. However I do think a misunderstood aspect is the defensive side of the game. We need really hard workers in the team who can press from the front all day long as that's probably the likeliest route to a goal against these limited sides who sit back.

There are also other ways such as being sharp on set pieces and having a few players who can strike from distance to break deadlocks. One of the most worrying aspects for me this season is how much we've regressed on set pieces. One of Ange's biggest mistakes imo has been sacking Gianni Vio and asking Mason to take over his duties. I'm not having a dig at Mason who I think seems like a perfectly decent well-rounded coach, but there's no way he's anywhere close to a specialist with a proven track record of success.

We aren't finishing any higher than 4th next season unless we address it.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I'm not sure I quite agree. I think having a bit of variety is nice and good dribblers do commit players sat in low blocks and crucially win free kicks in dangerous areas. However I do think a misunderstood aspect is the defensive side of the game. We need really hard workers in the team who can press from the front all day long as that's probably the likeliest route to a goal against these limited sides who sit back.

There are also other ways such as being sharp on set pieces and having a few players who can strike from distance to break deadlocks. One of the most worrying aspects for me this season is how much we've regressed on set pieces. One of Ange's biggest mistakes imo has been sacking Gianni Vio and asking Mason to take over his duties. I'm not having a dig at Mason who I think seems like a perfectly decent well-rounded coach, but there's no way he's anywhere close to a specialist with a proven track record of success.

We aren't finishing any higher than 4th next season unless we address it.

I keep hearing conflict reports on whether it is Mason or Jedinak doing defensive set pieces.

I do know that Jedinak just gave an interview where he detailed how to set up for defensive set pieces.

Which kind of feels like Richard Hammond presenting a driving safety course.

 

[WiganSpur]

I keep hearing conflict reports on whether it is Mason or Jedinak doing defensive set pieces.

I do know that Jedinak just gave an interview where he detailed how to set up for defensive set pieces.

Which kind of feels like Richard Hammond presenting a driving safety course.

We don't seem to be as good at attacking ones either now.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Not so sure about that.

HIs stats show that he is creating chances and being a constant danger.

The problem with the "eye test" is we remember big moments rather than overall play. We all remember his miss from 2 yards out and that sticks in our mind and we forget a lot of the simple play from his pace and runs that creates chances.

It seems to me that the plan is for Son to move to the inside forward roles. So we'd have Johnson and Son for this role and Richarlison as the striker.

Kulu might get moved to play deeper and Solomon likely needs to have a loan season. So we might be well off buying Werner, another inside forward and a striker.

But those stats don't show how wasteful he is, how bad his shooting is and how little of a goal threat he is.

Look I don't think he's a bad player, far from it, I'm a big Timo fan and I'd be fine with us signing his as a back-up option in addition to us signing 2 top quality attackers, 1 striker and one top class WF who is more of a creative and goal threat, but I'm just saying stats alone are almost meaningless, have to be combined with the eye test so you can see that players whole performance. Stats can be missleading.

 

[mil1lion]

We don't seem to be as good at attacking ones either now.

It's the lack of Richarlison who is the best replacement for Kane in that regard

 

[HildoSpur]

But those stats don't show how wasteful he is, how bad his shooting is and how little of a goal threat he is.

Look I don't think he's a bad player, far from it, I'm a big Timo fan and I'd be fine with us signing his as a back-up option in addition to us signing 2 top quality attackers, 1 striker and one top class WF who is more of a creative and goal threat, but I'm just saying stats alone are almost meaningless, have to be combined with the eye test so you can see that players whole performance. Stats can be missleading.

I honestly don't understand this view at all, if anything this should make you want us to keep Werner more. If we keep Werner either as a loan or a relatively cheap purchase then we can focus on other areas that require urgent money spent which to me is a defensive midfielder (top priority) and a left sided central defender (top priority) - with Werner in the squad it makes the need for 2 top quality attackers more of a need for just one which being realistic is likely all the business we will do in the summer.

If you believe we have any chance of buying 2 top quality attackers, 1 striker and 1 top class WF who is creative and a goal threat you are being wildly optimistic but even more than that, you are forgetting the two key positions we need to address in the summer (IMO).

We simply can't get all the players we need in one window - lets be realistic here. So keeping Werner is a good compromise to get us through a window or two while we focus on the areas that need major investment.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I honestly don't understand this view at all, if anything this should make you want us to keep Werner more. If we keep Werner either as a loan or a relatively cheap purchase then we can focus on other areas that require urgent money spent which to me is a defensive midfielder (top priority) and a left sided central defender (top priority) - with Werner in the squad it makes the need for 2 top quality attackers more of a need for just one which being realistic is likely all the business we will do in the summer.

If you believe we have any chance of buying 2 top quality attackers, 1 striker and 1 top class WF who is creative and a goal threat you are being wildly optimistic but even more than that, you are forgetting the two key positions we need to address in the summer (IMO).

We simply can't get all the players we need in one window - lets be realistic here. So keeping Werner is a good compromise to get us through a window or two while we focus on the areas that need major investment.

We need 2 top class attacking players a WF and ST as absolute priority. A n.o6 and a 4th CB would be next after that.

No reason why we can’t sign 5 players this summer.

If Werner is in addition to 2 top quality attacking signings then great, if not then I’d rather we didn’t sign Werner and we put our budget towards 2 top quality attacking players.

Fairly simple stuff really.

 

[ItsBoris]

Anthony Gordon has been very impressive this season in a similar role to Werner. Great end product, a major step change improvement from him in one season. He's the model for this position for us I reckon. Smart and efficient on the ball. Doesn't make weird flawed decisions and doesn't panic in front of goal.

I think Gordon is great and I'd love him (Newcastle won't sell anyway), but much like Marcus Rashford I think he's a great player on the counter attack but does he have the guile to unlock deep defenses? It's one thing against us, with miles of space to run into behind, and another against the classic midtable team that sits really deep and doesn't give space. We need players who can thrive in both ways because most of the time we'll be playing against low blocks, but against bigger clubs we'll need players who are good in transition too.

In terms of Werner, my mind is split on it. On the one hand I think we need better if we really want to compete for the league. On the other hand, we'll have so many games next season we may need him in addition to first choice attacking players.