Southgate: Stay or Go

[Yid121]

Interested to hear views, always been anti his negative football and 5 at the back but glad he's continuing until the Euros. Wondered what everyone else's views were

 

[TC18]

Not a fan of his playing style and really did not want him as manager, I changed my mind after an interview with a player a few weeks back.. (I think it was Kyle Walker) who said how he changed the atmosphere around the team as it was divided.

Also the fact he has got us to a semi and a final, would have probably been another semi if it wasn’t for poor officiating, which is the furthest I’ve seen an England team go in my lifetime.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I find it very hard to care one way or the other. Yeah, he's done an alright job, but for those on the radio freaking out saying that we need to go for a successful manager, some saying throw money at Pep - international manager is a very different kettle of fish, there's no evidence to suggest that domestically successful managers do any better at International than career journey men, I'm sure of it.

You don't get to buy in players, you are presented with a limited pool of players and your job is now to get scouts out and pick which ones you think will work out. Short in a position? Hard luck, make do. Man management is, again, a whole different kettle of fish - you get to hang out with them for a few weeks a year and you treat them like children, while they're away from their home comforts, friends and family.

Tony Pulis. What's Tony Pulis doing?

 

[whitechina]

As long as we aren't linked with him I don't care.

 

[thecook]

As long as we aren't linked with him I don't care.

Good point. I voted no but actually, sign him up for life!

 

[Tucker]

I think he’s done a good job in making the players enjoy being part of the England set up, and making it a family atmosphere with everyone pulling in the same direction. By all accounts, his philosophy and calmness has changed the atmosphere within the camp.

That being said, I honestly don’t think he has the tactical nous to get England over the line in the really big games against the really strong opponents. I didn’t watch the World Cup, but we all knew before hand that England would get knocked out as soon as they met France in the quarter final.

There just doesn’t seem to be that killer instinct in the set up that just drags the team over the line in the biggest of games. Add to that how boring England are to watch under him and it’s hard to make a case for him staying.

But if he goes, then who replaces him? There’s a dearth of talented English coaches with experience of success, and as others have pointed out there’s no point chucking money at the likes of Guardiola when their methods might not translate to international football.

 

[XIIIMPC]

He's done a really good job. I've never thought there's any need to get rid of him. There's no immediate replacement and he's been the best England manager since Ramsey.

We made QFs before, such as in 2006, where we were so poor it can hardly be considered an equivalent result. Here it was like...yeah France are one of the few teams with arguably better players than England. I thought we'd lose to France in the QFs when the draw was made, regardless of the manager.

I think there are genuine criticisms of the way Southgate handled the Italy game (though it still wasn't some disaster by him, Italy were very good in that tournament and in the preceeding couple of years and it's not like only Southgate has agency there), but I don't think he did much wrong in this one. He can't be blamed for the ref not giving the foul on Saka or a freakish pen miss for instance. I don't think if you lose very narrowly to a team with marginally better players you instantly turn around and sack the manager for it.

He even invalidated a lot of previous criticisms. I think his "negativity" in Euro 2020 was vastly overstated anyway but it was almost nonexistent here with some strong attacking displays.

 

[JimmyG2]

Not keen on the boy,
bit meh in general
but has been successful enough
not to warrant the sack
before the Euros.

 

[neilp]

Not keen on the boy,
bit meh in general
but has been successful enough
not to warrant the sack
before the Euros.

I sort of agree with you but meh is the word. He has been more successful than most, but I think that the role requires someone with more inspiration and that sort of person, could have done even better than him with the squad we have. I’ve no idea who that person is though.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

If you want to win something, get rid. If you’re happy with a Qr/Semi or Final then keep him

Has probably done the best job of anyone ever in bringing the whole squad together but unfortunately he’s not a manager, especially when it really matters

Great mentor

 

[Marty]

If Southgate was kept on as team manager, a role he excels at, and hired a new set of backroom staff that had primary responsibility for coaching and tactics, England could win a tournament

But if he and Steve Holland are calling the tactical shots, it feels unlikely.

I'd still rather have Southgate in charge than almost any feasible alternative though.

 

[Timberwolf]

I've been up and down on him over the years but makes sense to keep him at the moment. There aren't any better options available and I think it's good to maintain the continuity with this young group who clearly like him. I think it would be best for everyone if he moves on after the Euros, though. Feels like the right time.

I also think the France game is the first time we've been genuinely unlucky to get knocked out under him. We were the weaker team against both Italy and Croatia but I think we were better than France and it took a bit of a freak combo of a terrible ref, a penalty miss and a screamer from a CDM for us to lose. And that's against one of the very best sides in the world.

 

[riggi]

He has a ham sandwich, bottle of water and ready salted crisps for lunch.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I think it would be best for everyone if he moves on after the Euros, though. Feels like the right time.

I would argue that the manager for WC26 should start now - and have the Euros to get the team playing in his style. Otherwise, you put the new manager in a tougher spot to come in after the Euros and have a shorter time to implement any changes.

 

[parj]

I find it laughable that people think Southgate has done a bad job. Serial winner Capello couldn't do anything with a great group of players.

The golden era of Cole, Rooney, Beckham, Terry, Rio, Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes yielded nothing under managers that had achieved at club level.

Against France, England were the better team, and that's with Maguire and Stones at the back. France took their moments, Kane fcuked up England's. That's beyond Southgate control. Could he have done better with subs, maybe, but not as if Conte doesn't waste subs.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Against France, England were the better team,

How are we defining "better team"?

No goals from open play. Relying on Pens to score is usually not indicative of the "better team".

I don't think Southgate is "bad" - but I don't think he has the tactical nous to pick the right players, and put them in positions to consistently create goals. Its mostly done with a hope and a prayer.

 

[Timberwolf]

I would argue that the manager for WC26 should start now - and have the Euros to get the team playing in his style. Otherwise, you put the new manager in a tougher spot to come in after the Euros and have a shorter time to implement any changes.

Yeah maybe but you we have to make a change of managers at some point and 2 years is still a decent period of time to develop and imprint your image on a side.

I think it's rather likely that Southgate walks after the Euros anyway which won't give us a choice in the matter. He'd have to win the thing to beat his last effort and if he doesn't get to the semis or perhaps even the final the pressure on him to go will be tremendous. Plus he'll have been in the job for a v.long time by that point.

I wouldn't be against him staying for another full cycle if we keep improving, but if we have a bad Euros I certainly wouldn't keep him for continuity's sake.

 

[easley91]

How are we defining "better team"?

No goals from open play. Relying on Pens to score is usually not indicative of the "better team".

I don't think Southgate is "bad" - but I don't think he has the tactical nous to pick the right players, and put them in positions to consistently create goals. Its mostly done with a hope and a prayer.

Bit harsh to say it's a hope and a prayer that is the reason. We were the better team v France as was Morocco in the semi. France just took their two chances, we didn't. That doesn't mean we were poor. People thought we would get battered when we were actually on top for the majority. Saka had Theo Hernandez on toast second half and their defence was rattled.

We were one of the top scorers at that point in the tournament so something must have been done right attacking wise. He isn't the best tactically, but he isn't completely useless either.

You don't get to a World Cup semi, Euro final and match the world champions with one penalty away from extra time on a hope and a prayer.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Southgate is a steady hand. He's got a stable squad of level heads, who trust each other and trust him. There's no disruptive egos or absurd wag led sideshows... just professionalism and decency. That goes a long way, and it the last 3 tournaments it's gone as far as semi-final, final, quarter-final.

For an inconsistent international team, that's consistently high. I see no reason why he can't take this team, which will be entering their peak by then, to the Euro's in 2 years.

 

[brasil_spur]

Southgate has massively turned round England in terms of what we were when he took over. But it all feels very Spursy (yes i'm using that term, deal with it ) in as much as the football and team spirit is much better, we have a great squad of players to pick from with some really exciting talents, but defensively we're still a bit ropey and I can't see Southgate winning anything with England.

The question becomes is he enough to get us a tournament win - and the answer to that, in my mind is no. However, he deserves a shot at the Euros in 2024. If he can get a win with us there then he'll go down as the best manager we've had for generations. What he does need to do, as others have said, is get better tactically and be a bit less trusting in players that have served him well previously. There are some really exciting players coming through for England right now, but he needs to get them into the first team. If he can move on from players like Stones, Maguire and Shaw and build a back line of younger players that are of a better class then great, I think there's a chance of him getting a trophy with us.