Spot The Difference

[Main Man]

They will no doubt if he is better than AVB.

Do you not see a similarity between the two managers?

I certainly do - the only big and important difference being the media's agenda to them (which in turn shapes so many fans opinions).

But if Poch can better our record ever points haul, I will be more than happy with him.

In Pochettino we trust. COYS!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I do understand this to a certain extent, but he has had 25 days working with a core set of players working entirely on philosophy and what he wants etc - he will not have this kind of contact with them again this season, with each week purely focusing on the next fixture.

Also, bar Llloris the World Cup returnees haven't played 90 minutes between them...

So beyond that fact being incredibly worrying IMO, that second comment has no real relevance to our performance against Schalke.

While that is true of course, if you put it in perspective it took a lot longer for AVB to implement any kind of style after his first pre-season and that was without a world cup to factor in. Even AVB's biggest cheerleader (@Bus-Conductor) was critical of the first four months or so of the season in saying we weren't seeing any real evidence of his proclaimed philosophy. We were playing a 442 with Dempsey/Adebayor/Defoe, sitting deep with Sandro/Dembele as a pairing and not pressing like buggery etc.

When you factor in that Sherwood tried to completely change the way we had set up and went from a military organisation to a Montessori Nursery, the fact that Poch has got us looking at least a tad organised in 25 days working with a squad bereft of its world cup players could show some room for optimism when thinking ahead another couple of months?

I think it probably lies somewhere in between, I don't think you are wrong to ask the question, but I don't think we should be concerned just yet.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Do you not see a similarity between the two managers?

I certainly do - the only big and important difference being the media's agenda to them (which in turn shapes so many fans opinions).

But if Poch can better our record ever points haul, I will be more than happy with him.

In Pochettino we trust. COYS!

I've sort of answered some of this in my previous post to you, I see some similarities in the two, but where as you say there was a media agenda, I don't think there was anything that Villas-Boas didn't bring on himself, at the end of the day he failed miserably with Chelsea, and was perceived as being lucky to be given a chance by Levy so soon after.

Where I see the difference, and where I am more optimistic is Poch has a general understanding of being a professional footballer from having played the game at the highest level, for me that is a positive.

From first glance it's a bit like Poch is AVB without the elastic band round his testicles.

I'm also not surprised that we may see similarities, at the end of the day Levy wanted 'an AVB type', it just turned out he didn't actually want the AVB that he got.

 

[mpickard2087]

I've sort of answered some of this in my previous post to you, I see some similarities in the two, but where as you say there was a media agenda, I don't think there was anything that Villas-Boas didn't bring on himself, at the end of the day he failed miserably with Chelsea, and was perceived as being lucky to be given a chance by Levy so soon after.

Where I see the difference, and where I am more optimistic is Poch has a general understanding of being a professional footballer from having played the game at the highest level, for me that is a positive.

From first glance it's a bit like Poch is AVB without the elastic band round his testicles.

I'm also not surprised that we may see similarities, at the end of the day Levy wanted 'an AVB type', it just turned out he didn't actually want the AVB that he got.

This definitely.

Plus I'd say that just from watching pre-season and from watching Southampton last year, and then comparing that against AVB I have more faith that Pochettino 'understands' his desired way of playing... For me AVB had his grand tactical plan, but didn't understand or comprehend the intricacies and the million little things that go into making that approach a success (pass, move, press, ability to change tempo would be labelling those things at a basic level) and so couldn't get it across to the players. I think Poch will be better in this regard... Frankly, it cant be any worse.





Also, who let you back in here...?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Also, who let you back in here...?

I let myself back in mate, once I escaped from Kyle Naughton's basement...

 

[Main Man]

Frankly, it cant be any worse.

That's just silly, it could have been a lot worse.

AVB's reign was far from Ramos-esque was it?

I know your response to this one - "yeah, he won a trophy".

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Maybe I was being too harsh but I stand by the fact that are defence wasn't good last season under AVB. Even when we conceded 0 goals in a match, there were still multiple occasions where we were very close to conceding a goal, had it not been for Lloris. The players in our defensive line (excluding Lloris- I'm saying that because you're so insistent that every line of a post must be incredibly clear) were often poor which meant that players from the opposition were through on goal.

Sorry if this has been mentioned in other replies but I have to reply before I forget.

Where you say "very close" was one of the things that bugged me the most. And that was largely due to our offside trap which was implemented to perfection.

Not only SC members but commentators oooo'd and ahhhhh'd as the striker was "almost" through on goal. "Almost" is a load of bollocks. You either are or aren't. Our high line was nerve racking but time after time, even Dawson, caught the Strikers out.

It was immense watching.

 

[mpickard2087]

That's just silly, it could have been a lot worse.

AVB's reign was far from Ramos-esque was it?

I know your response to this one - "yeah, he won a trophy".

I'm talking purely from a tactical point of view. Every single game was just a repeat. For all the apparent work on the training ground we were told they were doing absolutely nothing from an attacking point of view got through to them on the evidence of 18 months worth of matches. We just kept banging our heads against the brick wall every single game.

 

[Stoof]

If we're playing "Spot the Difference" ... then I much prefer the chap in charge wearing a jacket with sleeves.

I think that's my favourite difference so far.

 

[mpickard2087]

I let myself back in mate, once I escaped from Kyle Naughton's basement...

Ouch. Was there sign of 'defensive nous' or 'the mindset to move forward with the ball' lost down there with you?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I've sort of answered some of this in my previous post to you, I see some similarities in the two, but where as you say there was a media agenda, I don't think there was anything that Villas-Boas didn't bring on himself, at the end of the day he failed miserably with Chelsea, and was perceived as being lucky to be given a chance by Levy so soon after.

Where I see the difference, and where I am more optimistic is Poch has a general understanding of being a professional footballer from having played the game at the highest level, for me that is a positive.

From first glance it's a bit like Poch is AVB without the elastic band round his testicles.

I'm also not surprised that we may see similarities, at the end of the day Levy wanted 'an AVB type', it just turned out he didn't actually want the AVB that he got.

Come on Bear, big chunks of the media were furious that he'd (AVB) replaced their favourite rent a mouth. With his new fangled foreign ideas and wotnot.

And this whole "played at the highest level" bullshit is wearing very thin. Mourinho ? Wenger ?

Roy Keane won everything in football and had un unstoppable mentality but was a worse manager than AVB.

Football management is almost entirely populated by fuckwits who played at the highest level.


Welcome back.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Come on Bear, big chunks of the media were furious that he'd (AVB) replaced their favourite rent a mouth. With his new fangled foreign ideas and wotnot.

And this whole "played at the highest level" bullshit is wearing very thin. Mourinho ? Wenger ?

Roy Keane won everything in football and had un unstoppable mentality but was a worse manager than AVB.

Football management is almost entirely populated by fuckwits who played at the highest level.


Welcome back.

I don't think they were, they just gave him enough rope to hang himself. He couldn't wait to execute his skills he learned in the cub scouts.

It's only wearing thin to those who refuse to accept it, although not international footballers, both JM and AW had a footballing education, rather than playing Gary Kasparov's Gambit.

I'm glad you haven't changed.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't think they were, they just gave him enough rope to hang himself. He couldn't wait to execute his skills he learned in the cub scouts.

It's only wearing thin to those who refuse to accept it, although not international footballers, both JM and AW had a footballing education, rather than playing Gary Kasparov's Gambit.

I'm glad you haven't changed.

We've all had a football education. Just because someone got closer to smelling a professional jock strap than an amateur one doesn't make them any more capable of understanding the roundness of a football, human nature, football tactics or being a better communicator of those things.

I'm disappointed to see you're still a pupil of the Dave Bassett philosophy of football esoterics.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

We've all had a football education. Just because someone to closer to smelling a professional jock strap than an amateur one doesn't make them any more capable of understanding the roundness of a football, human nature, football tactics or being a better communicator of those things.

I'm disappointed to see you're still a pupil of the Dave Bassett philosophy of football esoterics.

If you cant beat 'em, join 'em.

 

[Kiedis]

They are philosophically very much alike. I always thought that was an advantage, since our squad is more or less built with that philosophy in mind.

Hopefully Poch will make us better going forward and find a way to make the team play the pressing game consistently. We only ever managed it in short spells under AVB.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

i think the basic difference was that now we are getting the ball forward to the strikers within seconds rather than 2-3 minutes before

But Dawson has been trying to do that for the last 8 seasons....

 

[eddiebailey]

They are philosophically very much alike. I always thought that was an advantage, since our squad is more or less built with that philosophy in mind.

Actually the problem with our squad is that it cannot transition quickly from defence to attack; aquiring - or promoting - players who can enable that is going to make much more difference than changing the manager. It is what Carrick gave us under Jol (and Zokora didn't) and what Huddlestone and Modric gave us under Redknapp; and why AVB was desperate to sign Moutinho, Sherwood wanted to recall Carroll, and Poch has taken a shine to Mason and is pursuing Schinderlein.

 

[Main Man]

Actually the problem with our squad is that it cannot transition quickly from defence to attack; aquiring - or promoting - players who can enable that is going to make much more difference than changing the manager. It is what Carrick gave us under Jol (and Zokora didn't) and what Huddlestone and Modric gave us under Redknapp; and why AVB was desperate to sign Moutinho, Sherwood wanted to recall Carroll, and Poch has taken a shine to Mason and is pursuing Schinderlein.

You are definitely right with this.

Not replacing Modric effectively is our biggest mistake in recent years. Slightly off topic, but relevant to your post, I am not sure Schneiderlin is a good enough replacement.

I think Dembele has the attributes to be that middle man though - he just needs to bloody show it more in his performances!

 

[Flashspur]

...he has had what 25-30 days so far with the squad. I am setting my expectations fairly low this season. I think he will succeed but it will take time and we need to give him that time.

 

[Flashspur]

I do understand this to a certain extent, but he has had 25 days working with a core set of players working entirely on philosophy and what he wants etc - he will not have this kind of contact with them again this season, with each week purely focusing on the next fixture.

Also, bar Llloris the World Cup returnees haven't played 90 minutes between them...

So beyond that fact being incredibly worrying IMO, that second comment has no real relevance to our performance against Schalke.

Mate, your negativity is doing my head in...are you trying to jinx us or something? And I don't have a fucking clue what you actually mean in the response above.

Yes, he has had 25 days, but has been on tour to the USA so you can take travel time and recovery time out of that. Some of them are still recovering from injury as well etc. That cuts the time down further. So what is 'incredibly worrying' about it??