Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

[Mandy Dingle]

 

[coysjod]

Only Ipswich I know, but I’m very impressed!

 

[Blake Griffin]

wonder what the long-term plan for sessegnon is if cirkin is seen as the future at lb. i know he was playing further forward today but whilst he can be effective i've never been convinced that he has enough about him on the ball to make it there at the top level.

 

[yankspurs]

Cirkin has sooooo much promise. So impressed by him in that 45 minutes. Loved what I saw from White & Devine too. Very promising stuff from them. I really want Clarke to come good but fear that wasted season cost him so much development. He needs games so badly. A loan he actually plays most of the time is desperately needed

 

[Yid-ol]

Cirkin has sooooo much promise. So impressed by him in that 45 minutes. Loved what I saw from White & Devine too. Very promising stuff from them. I really want Clarke to come good but fear that wasted season cost him so much development. He needs games so badly. A loan he actually plays most of the time is desperately needed

I hope that if they sent being used in our main squad, they have these games to show what they can do, so club's will come in for them on loan! None have done any harm to that from the bits I have seen anyway.

 

[spud]

There were a couple of occasions when he should have kicked it with his right foot. I worry about a player - whether right or left footed - who is unwilling or unable to attempt a simple short pass with his weaker foot.

 

[razzmaster]

There were a couple of occasions when he should have kicked it with his right foot. I worry about a player - whether right or left footed - who is unwilling or unable to attempt a simple short pass with his weaker foot.

Completely agree. I said the same about Messi when he made his Barca debut and he is yet to convince me that I am wrong.

 

[EQP]

Who is it?

Her name is Annie Murphy, incase no one answered your question.

 

[Bobishism]

There were a couple of occasions when he should have kicked it with his right foot. I worry about a player - whether right or left footed - who is unwilling or unable to attempt a simple short pass with his weaker foot.

He also showed in that clip that he can play with his right foot when he had to. Preferring one foot and not being able to use your weaker foot are two separate weaknesses, with the first being a lot easier to fix.

The only concern that I have from this brief appearance is cirkins lack of physicality.
In a position where you're often up against physical opponents, he looks like he would get knocked off the ball easily.
It remains to be seen how he can handle shoulder to shoulder challenges from forwards. I am sure the team are looking at this and will work on it with him in the gym.

 

[Hercules]

He also showed in that clip that he can play with his right foot when he had to. Preferring one foot and not being able to use your weaker foot are two separate weaknesses, with the first being a lot easier to fix.

The only concern that I have from this brief appearance is cirkins lack of physicality.
In a position where you're often up against physical opponents, he looks like he would get knocked off the ball easily.
It remains to be seen how he can handle shoulder to shoulder challenges from forwards. I am sure the team are looking at this and will work on it with him in the gym.

Cirkin is tough

 

[Snarfalicious]

Cirkin looks like if Tom Carroll went into the Captain America machine thingy.

 

[Marty]

He also showed in that clip that he can play with his right foot when he had to. Preferring one foot and not being able to use your weaker foot are two separate weaknesses, with the first being a lot easier to fix.

The only concern that I have from this brief appearance is cirkins lack of physicality.
In a position where you're often up against physical opponents, he looks like he would get knocked off the ball easily.
It remains to be seen how he can handle shoulder to shoulder challenges from forwards. I am sure the team are looking at this and will work on it with him in the gym.

Wan Bissaka didn't look physical when he was given his PL debut but surprised everyone with his toughness and has since bulked up a fair bit too.

One would hope Cirkin has the same in him and if he can also drive forward in attack better then we have a hell of a player.

 

[Locotoro]

Cirkin looks like if Tom Carroll went into the Captain America machine thingy.

Post of the day!

 

[C0YS]

wonder what the long-term plan for sessegnon is if cirkin is seen as the future at lb. i know he was playing further forward today but whilst he can be effective i've never been convinced that he has enough about him on the ball to make it there at the top level.

Yeh, Sess is a strange one isn't he. It's not that he isn't good with the ball, but just doesn't have that x-factor that other young players tend to have in abundance. Now, that doesn't mean he can't be effective there, countless examples of wingers who became effective rather than explosive. But, to be that at a top level you need to be very intelligent and very good at the basics. You'd want more from Sess.

part of me thinks he could develop into a n10, his movement is very good and, while we haven't really seen it here, he can play an incisive pass, has good close control and all that. I think he got pushed forward too young, because he was too effective in the Championship not too, but he hasn't got that x factor that most wingers who break through young do.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Yeh, Sess is a strange one isn't he. It's not that he isn't good with the ball, but just doesn't have that x-factor that other young players tend to have in abundance. Now, that doesn't mean he can't be effective there, countless examples of wingers who became effective rather than explosive. But, to be that at a top level you need to be very intelligent and very good at the basics. You'd want more from Sess.

part of me thinks he could develop into a n10, his movement is very good and, while we haven't really seen it here, he can play an incisive pass, has good close control and all that. I think he got pushed forward too young, because he was too effective in the Championship not too, but he hasn't got that x factor that most wingers who break through young do.

yeah i don't want to dig him out too much but the more i think about how much we invested in sessegnon, the more it bugs me.

i'd be interested to hear where you guys would rank him amongst this lot for example, bear in mind this is only a list of english attacking players aged 21 or under -

sancho
foden
greenwood
mount
saka
edwards
hudson-odoi
nelson
mcneil


all of those bar sancho either came through their respective club's academy or were signed on a free(edwards). sessegnon on the other hand we spent a considerable amount on, i always see people saying he cost 25m but that neglects to mention we also gave onomah away as part of that - who has now become a key part of fulham's side and has grown in value himself.

he does have intelligence and composure on his side, more so than some in that list but as an attacking player with the ball at his feet he doesn't stack up too well imo, which isn't great considering the outlay. he's also not showing the same level of athleticism that made him stand out at youth level either, not that he was all pace and power but it was certainly a part of his game.

 

[razzmaster]

yeah i don't want to dig him out too much but the more i think about how much we invested in sessegnon, the more it bugs me.

i'd be interested to hear where you guys would rank him amongst this lot for example, bear in mind this is only a list of english attacking players aged 21 or under -

sancho
foden
greenwood
mount
saka
edwards
hudson-odoi
nelson
mcneil


all of those bar sancho either came through their respective club's academy or were signed on a free(edwards). sessegnon on the other hand we spent a considerable amount on, i always see people saying he cost 25m but that neglects to mention we also gave onomah away as part of that - who has now become a key part of fulham's side and has grown in value himself.

he does have intelligence and composure on his side, more so than some in that list but as an attacking player with the ball at his feet he doesn't stack up too well imo, which isn't great considering the outlay. he's also not showing the same level of athleticism that made him stand out at youth level either, not that he was all pace and power but it was certainly a part of his game.

I think Sessegnon suffers from not being flashy.

Despite not appearing to excel at anything in particular, he managed to score 15 goals as a 17yr old in the Championship.

To put that into perspective, Mount as a 20yr old scored 11 for Derby.

Edwards managed 7 goals in a mediocre Portuguese league.

Hudson-Odoi has 1 premier league goal.

McNeill scored 2 and assisted 6 this season, pretty much the same Sessegnon managed in the season he supposedly flopped when Fulham got relegated.

Saka and Nelson have 1 EPL goal each to their name.

Foden, Sancho and Greenwood are special talents and are a class above Sessegnon but the others all still have a lot to prove still, just like Sess.

Personally I think he will develop into a top class left back but it may take a couple of seasons. (Cirkin may make it a bit harder for him though)

 

[C0YS]

yeah i don't want to dig him out too much but the more i think about how much we invested in sessegnon, the more it bugs me.

i'd be interested to hear where you guys would rank him amongst this lot for example, bear in mind this is only a list of english attacking players aged 21 or under -

sancho
foden
greenwood
mount
saka
edwards
hudson-odoi
nelson
mcneil


all of those bar sancho either came through their respective club's academy or were signed on a free(edwards). sessegnon on the other hand we spent a considerable amount on, i always see people saying he cost 25m but that neglects to mention we also gave onomah away as part of that - who has now become a key part of fulham's side and has grown in value himself.

he does have intelligence and composure on his side, more so than some in that list but as an attacking player with the ball at his feet he doesn't stack up too well imo, which isn't great considering the outlay. he's also not showing the same level of athleticism that made him stand out at youth level either, not that he was all pace and power but it was certainly a part of his game.

The problem is he isn't like most of those players, he's not comparable. But I think that is the issue. At fullham as a wide man he was more efficient than explosive, and that's the thing. If he was a young player from the academy you would think, give it a few years, he plays with a lot of intellegence, but isn't someone you can bring on for his burst of invention or flair. As you say, the fee is not helpful to hos cause.

The athleticism really came from left back, where he had space to run into. As a winger he has always been a much subtle player whenever I've watched. A subtle player with great production though. We will see where his future lies. he is talented but a different kind of talent.

On Onamah, what was his value then? 8m maybe? Probs less. You can't judge how he's developed, firstly because it's way to early to tell and he wasn't going to develop here. It's worth pointing out that Sess was on a different level than what Onomah showed at the back end of last season.

 

[haslemereyid]

great points made by both sides of the debate. This is the most football intelligent thread on the site. Brilliant read. Thank you guys.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I think Sessegnon suffers from not being flashy.

Despite not appearing to excel at anything in particular, he managed to score 15 goals as a 17yr old in the Championship.

To put that into perspective, Mount as a 20yr old scored 11 for Derby.

Edwards managed 7 goals in a mediocre Portuguese league.

Hudson-Odoi has 1 premier league goal.

McNeill scored 2 and assisted 6 this season, pretty much the same Sessegnon managed in the season he supposedly flopped when Fulham got relegated.

Saka and Nelson have 1 EPL goal each to their name.

Foden, Sancho and Greenwood are special talents and are a class above Sessegnon but the others all still have a lot to prove still, just like Sess.

Personally I think he will develop into a top class left back but it may take a couple of seasons. (Cirkin may make it a bit harder for him though)

you're right, he's not flashy and as i said his intelligence and composure around the goal are his most impressive traits but i don't think comparing players just by their goal tallies paints a very clear picture. on the topic of his goals though, i'm sure people will say that a goal is a goal and are all worth the same but sessegnon's were all very much a product of the team rather than his own doing, definitely useful player to have in a team but at the highest level you're probably going to need a bit more than that.

he's always shown a maturity to his game which is impressive in a lot of ways but at the same time you have to ask yourself if that's one of the things that makes him stand out now then what's his stand out attribute going to be when he does actually get older? it's great saying that he's mature for his age but that doesn't necessarily mean he's destined to reach another level in the future.

i think he could be a very good left back too but it's by no means a cert and with cirkin seemingly earmarked as the future there it doesn't look great for sessegnon. he can still be an effective/efficient attacking player in time but i don't see massive potential in him there.

The problem is he isn't like most of those players, he's not comparable. But I think that is the issue. At fullham as a wide man he was more efficient than explosive, and that's the thing. If he was a young player from the academy you would think, give it a few years, he plays with a lot of intellegence, but isn't someone you can bring on for his burst of invention or flair. As you say, the fee is not helpful to hos cause.

The athleticism really came from left back, where he had space to run into. As a winger he has always been a much subtle player whenever I've watched. A subtle player with great production though. We will see where his future lies. he is talented but a different kind of talent.

On Onamah, what was his value then? 8m maybe? Probs less. You can't judge how he's developed, firstly because it's way to early to tell and he wasn't going to develop here. It's worth pointing out that Sess was on a different level than what Onomah showed at the back end of last season.

not comparable in what way though? because they're exciting to watch and he's not?

if he was a player from our academy he'd probably be in the same position that skipp is now - a talented well rounded player but one who needs games/experience. i do like sessegnon but he's not a standout amongst all the other young english players, which really he should be given how much we spent to bring him here.

i don't know what onomah's value was in the deal(probably not much) but it is a bit of a punch in the gut for the academy when he was effectively a make-weight, a footnote, an insignificance. whilst we can't control onomah's value now, it was always likely to rise once he found his rhythm. onomah wasn't going to develop here i agree but is that on him or us? i know it's early days for sessegnon but i wouldn't be surprised if he finds himself having the same issue.

 

[emiley heskey]

I think sessegnon is an attacking player ... Shoe horning him into a left back won't do any good either for him or for us sadly ...let him develop in the left wing , right wing role and every day let him have 30minutes finishing drill with kane and son ... If he learn when to track back and use spaces well, he can be our ready made lamela/moura replacement and we can use lamela/moura money into other parts of the pitch ..