Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

[Anuth]

 

[BringBack_leGin]

It’s Sol Campbell all over again ?

 

[sausage]

Pretty cool video - shows either the shooting skill level Cirkin is at, or just young left backs/players in general

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I was impressed with the kids that played v Ipswich. Standouts for me who I think could be useful around the first team squad were:

White looks ready for regular football, seems very well rounded. Always showed for the ball, passed well, seems a tough player too and played at his own pace. Would like to see more of him.

Cirkin clearly has an old head and is committed, I’d say he’s more a deputy for Davies than a rotation option but I’m comfortable with that.

Clarke pleased me, he worked very hard off the ball, played with his head up and usually made the right choice between giving or running with the ball. Two very nice individual moments of wing play ended up with him playing our best two crosses of the match.

 

[Spurzinho]

That's Wayne Burnett Cirkin's working with by the way.

 

[Anuth]

Troy called up for the senior squad again

 

[Cochise]

Clarke was a strange one. He started well, then made a couple of mistakes and disappeared a little. He came back into things later on. Did seem to have an understanding with Gedson. Where Moura stayed inside quite rigidly, Clarke alternated between going wide and sticking inside, but he and Gedson worked it out.

 

[Goobers]

I thought Clarke look good and always looked to move the ball of himself quickly.
My thoughts are that he will get minutes in the EL qualifiers before finding a home to go to for the season before the 5th October.

 

[rabbikeane]

It’s Sol Campbell all over again ?

More like the next Anton Blackwood.
Still, would feel a bit better if he'd signed with QPR

 

[Montalbano]

Harvey White named as our scholar of the year by youthhawk.


I'm excited that Jose has stated he'll be in the first team this season. He's certainly an exciting talent who I'm hoping will benefit from our season in the Europa League. It certainly gave Arsenal and United's youngsters the platform to breakthrough.

 

[Marvola]

I like how positive he is on the ball - Confident in his touch to get his head up early and quite often plays good, pacy passes in to feet. Like the impetus he brings to play. Promising.

 

[allpaths]

Harvey White named as our scholar of the year by youthhawk.


I'm excited that Jose has stated he'll be in the first team this season. He's certainly an exciting talent who I'm hoping will benefit from our season in the Europa League. It certainly gave Arsenal and United's youngsters the platform to breakthrough.

It's also how Harry Kane broke through. It's just a shame their aren't more youngsters that are worth giving a shot to. Like just imagine if JO, ME and KWP were 20/21 going into this season, I'd imagine they'd have had a much more successful transition to the first team.

 

[emiley heskey]

Tom Caroll, Ryan Mason, Harry Winks, Harver White - all are too similar style midfielders ?

Neat, Tidy passer in the middle of the pitch rather than physical presence? Though Mason had more aggression to his game

 

[rio bryan]

Tom Caroll, Ryan Mason, Harry Winks, Harver White - all are too similar style midfielders ?

Neat, Tidy passer in the middle of the pitch rather than physical presence? Though Mason had more aggression to his game

Can also put Skipp and probably Bowden in that bracket, just wondering if White with his passing range and versatility will eventually overtake Winks in the pecking order ?
Incidently does anyone know how tall White is ?

 

[emiley heskey]

Can also put Skipp and probably Bowden in that bracket, just wondering if White with his passing range and versatility will eventually overtake Winks in the pecking order ?
Incidently does anyone know how tall White is ?

I think they are all similar size as well

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Tom Caroll, Ryan Mason, Harry Winks, Harver White - all are too similar style midfielders ?

Neat, Tidy passer in the middle of the pitch rather than physical presence? Though Mason had more aggression to his game

Spurs look initially for technical players believing that they can add the other qualities to the mix later, whilst believing that they can't do it the other way round. Certainly when I was watching the youth team one of the failings were that the sides didn't always express themselves as well against sides who were physically big and had some expertise in the dark arts (and yes certain youth teams always seemed to have that trait)

Now Mcdermott has moved on I do wonder if there might be some subtle changes in recruitment and the type of player - though in all honesty most of the young youth players of any note are well known to all the clubs and its a competitive market to try to bring them in. So perhaps the style of coaching would need to change which seems unlikely.

Incidentally speaking to a lower league manager at a youth game he said he was concerned that taking a player from Spurs on loan was a big risk. In that the boys are encouraged to play in a certain way and to take risks on the ball his reckoning that might be ok and prepare them for the Premier League but there is a hell of difference bringing a boy into a League 2 side where the football isn't so technical and you need to 'role your sleeves up' incidentally he is no longer managing in England but interesting nevertheless

 

[Spurzinho]

Spurs look initially for technical players believing that they can add the other qualities to the mix later, whilst believing that they can't do it the other way round. Certainly when I was watching the youth team one of the failings were that the sides didn't always express themselves as well against sides who were physically big and had some expertise in the dark arts (and yes certain youth teams always seemed to have that trait)

Now Mcdermott has moved on I do wonder if there might be some subtle changes in recruitment and the type of player - though in all honesty most of the young youth players of any note are well known to all the clubs and its a competitive market to try to bring them in. So perhaps the style of coaching would need to change which seems unlikely.

Incidentally speaking to a lower league manager at a youth game he said he was concerned that taking a player from Spurs on loan was a big risk. In that the boys are encouraged to play in a certain way and to take risks on the ball his reckoning that might be ok and prepare them for the Premier League but there is a hell of difference bringing a boy into a League 2 side where the football isn't so technical and you need to 'role your sleeves up' incidentally he is no longer managing in England but interesting nevertheless

McDermott believed in producing no.8's (box to box midfielders). He believed that 8's possessed all the skills necessary for modern football and then as their natural physical abilities began to mature they would be converted into different roles. Harry Kane's versatility is a result of the club developing him as an 8. The reason we produce short arse centre backs like CCV and Tanganga is because they possessed the skillset of an 8 at junior levels where as more obvious centre backs get released . Once you get to U16 they begin to assess your suitability to particular roles and if you're not competent at the basic skill set of that role then you don't get a scholarship. If you can't jump, head the ball or tackle at 16 then you're not getting a scholarship if you've been specialising at centre back over the last year or so.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

McDermott believed in producing no.8's (box to box midfielders). He believed that 8's possessed all the skills necessary for modern football and then as their natural physical abilities began to mature they would be converted into different roles. Harry Kane's versatility is a result of the club developing him as an 8. The reason we produce short arse centre backs like CCV and Tanganga is because they possessed the skillset of an 8 at junior levels where as more obvious centre backs get released . Once you get to U16 they begin to assess your suitability to particular roles and if you're not competent at the basic skill set of that role then you don't get a scholarship. If you can't jump, head the ball or tackle at 16 then you're not getting a scholarship if you've been specialising at centre back over the last year or so.

I would agree with that and whilst I think its probably the right way it is in direct contrast to some other sides who look at physique and strength as key components Arsenal under Wenger looked for athletes who could be taught (i think we have discussed before Spurs being willing to bring in players born after April where some clubs find that difficult) . I personally think there needs to be more of a blend and my opinion is that there is almost too much emphasis on the technique side though I kind of write that and almost half sentence disagree with myself.

My one question about Mcdermott is that he tended to end up a little insular on players and his approach as I saw it was almost one size fits all and the academy at times has lacked individual plans for players though that is a perception based on observation rather than fact

 

[Spurzinho]

I would agree with that and whilst I think its probably the right way it is in direct contrast to some other sides who look at physique and strength as key components Arsenal under Wenger looked for athletes who could be taught (i think we have discussed before Spurs being willing to bring in players born after April where some clubs find that difficult) . I personally think there needs to be more of a blend and my opinion is that there is almost too much emphasis on the technique side though I kind of write that and almost half sentence disagree with myself.

My one question about Mcdermott is that he tended to end up a little insular on players and his approach as I saw it was almost one size fits all and the academy at times has lacked individual plans for players though that is a perception based on observation rather than fact

The general idea wasn't new to McDermott. For a long time academies focused on creating 4's and 10's. 4's are holding midfielders and the general belief was that a 4 can be converted into any other defensive role. 10's were considered to have the perfect blend of attributes for attacking roles and so could be easily retrained.

I have said before that I sense that we're moving back towards a more specialised philosophy in this country. There's no one "right" philosophy although I agree that one size fits all has clearly left gaps and seen a lot of natural specialists slip through our grasp. The problems England used to have with specialisation was that players were limited in their skillset and couldn't adapt to different systems and approaches hence it taking so long for us to break out of the prison of direct 4-4-2. There has to be a sweet spot.

 

[IGSpur]

He also showed in that clip that he can play with his right foot when he had to. Preferring one foot and not being able to use your weaker foot are two separate weaknesses, with the first being a lot easier to fix.

The only concern that I have from this brief appearance is cirkins lack of physicality.
In a position where you're often up against physical opponents, he looks like he would get knocked off the ball easily.
It remains to be seen how he can handle shoulder to shoulder challenges from forwards. I am sure the team are looking at this and will work on it with him in the gym.

Agree with your first point. I have never looked at Cirkin and been remotely concerned about the use of his right foot. He is more than capable but it's not essential.

Re: your point, I think the physicality is always brought up regarding academy players and I think more is made of it than necessary. They aren't going to be where they are or training with the first team, without the ability to at least hold their own. This issue was constantly levelled at KWP, and was never this massive issue. Whether he was being muscled off the ball or not was not a reason for us ever losing if he was in the side. I think too much is made of it.

Either way for Cirkin, he is more than willing to get stuck in and go into 50/50s not that I think it is a key thing.

Only just manged to watch the game.

Pleased to see they all acquitted themselves well.

I definitely believe that Cirkin is more than ready to be regularly playing EL football this season, and as the 2nd best FB I've seen in the academy, if he gets his chance we could be onto a top player and I reckon he will be playing for England if Ireland don't promise him game time first. While England are oversaturated with RBs they ain't really with LBs so it's their for the taking. On a sidenote if he did choose Ireland, that future Ireland team with Parrott, Cirkin, Sobowale, Idah, Bazunu et al, is definitely something they could look forward to.

I was also pleased to see White spraying the ball about, which shows he has confidence to do that within the team. Realistically only him or Bowden will get a chance, and I think White as more specialist skills than Bowden, who has slightly different strengths, which warrants pushing White more. Hopefully we send Bowden on loan, but he is another with Irish ancestry who I actually think will end up playing for them.

I actually liked what I saw of Clarke as well.

I'm really pleased Devine looked settled in the team, and I am really pleased for Scarlett. I think Devine is a great coup for us and a shrewd but of business picking off a struggling academy. I would've loved if Scarlett had reached that ball but I just know it would've put unnecessary pressure on him if he scored. Would also have been weird if he scored for our first team before our u18s. Going on twitter and elsewhere it confirmed what I've always said. People appreciate a signing a lot more. I saw more talk of Devine being young and playing, and people wanting to see him more than I ever saw of Scarlett for some reason.

It's incredible how much Scarlett has grown and no matter how many times I see it, it will always be strange watching a kid you saw playing at 12/13 run out for the first team but in him and Donley I think we have the best strikers we've produced since Kane, let's just hope they keep developing.

Here's an interview with that age group from the Riga tournament in 2017.

Also lots of credit to Mourinho, I think I remember when Kirby was training at preseason before he had joined our u18s Poch was once again praised for his use of youth. Mourinho had two players that age group actually on for the first team. Weirdly, as we approach with our next best lot of talent it will be interesting to compare and contrast his youth of talent with his predecessor, but tbh I don't think he'll be here long enough to really bring this age group through.