Spurs Youth Thread 23/24

[ButchCassidy]

I don’t like that football has come to this, but we could really use a feeder club in Belgium or Holland or Austria, somewhere we can send one or two kids a year where they can get used to playing against adults at a reasonable level and where they won’t get abandoned at the first sign of trouble or a managerial swap. Wouldn’t think it needs to be as formal as ENIC buying another club, some sort of partnership would do.

 

[mark87]

 

[Krafty]

I don’t like that football has come to this, but we could really use a feeder club in Belgium or Holland or Austria, somewhere we can send one or two kids a year where they can get used to playing against adults at a reasonable level and where they won’t get abandoned at the first sign of trouble or a managerial swap. Wouldn’t think it needs to be as formal as ENIC buying another club, some sort of partnership would do.

I wouldn’t worry, football has been like this for a couple of decades. Think of Utd and Antwerp.

I think our issue is the journey from U18 to senior football (anywhere, let alone at Spurs). Too many players just disappear into obscurity with us. Other clubs probably get as many youth players into their first team as us, but they also see a lot more youth products go on to make it elsewhere.

We have not used the loan market well enough (not since Sherwood was in charge of it).
We have not had consistency in the first team setup for players to get exposure there.
Us as a fan base have not been in the right place to allow youth to fail to succeed (could you imagine Jose or Conte’s dire football while also exposing inexperienced youth to it?)

Kyle Walker-Peters was kept at the club too long without senior football, then Tangana had the same, Lyon-Foster is another,Nile John, and the two keepers, Austin and Whiteman, while having gone abroad on loan, have also been kept on too long without enough senior football experience.

it’s a disservice to them and their careers, let alone to the Tottenham senior team. It’s good to see Phillips out on loan, Dorrington and Craig lining up temporary moves, and I would say a lot of U23s could do with a loan.

Really the best prospects who are on the cusp should be out on loan (eg Devine) as that is where they will develop the most. Then the younger, even less ready players who can take the final couple of spots on the bench, gain from being around the first team and if they get a few mins, it raises their profile even if they dont touch the ball. Then when the time comes makes it more likely they will get a good loan

 

[eddiebailey]

can't see Gray leaving Leeds so early (at 17) considering his family though

Oh, is it that family? That’s some pedigree.

 

[rabbikeane]

I think we need to keep Dorrington here for the time being. We are better finding a loan for him in the summer to the Championship or L1.

Send him to Scandinavian league that kick off in March/April

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Regarding loans, the owner of Peterborough, Darragh McAnthony, was on Talksport recently, criticising the attitude of some prem lge clubs involved in loaning players out. Some want the lower lge club to cover the wages. Others want playing time guaranteed . When you look at how many young players our rivals loan out, it’s easy to assume we are being awkward with some of these clubs. Liverpool and Chelsea have players loaned all over the pl@ce. This season we had Devine, Scarlett and Parrot. 2 more this week plus poss Alfie Dorrington. Need to do more with these players. Hope the new regime can improve matters.

 

[bombarda]

Regarding loans, the owner of Peterborough, Darragh McAnthony, was on Talksport recently, criticising the attitude of some prem lge clubs involved in loaning players out. Some want the lower lge club to cover the wages. Others want playing time guaranteed . When you look at how many young players our rivals loan out, it’s easy to assume we are being awkward with some of these clubs. Liverpool and Chelsea have players loaned all over the pl@ce. This season we had Devine, Scarlett and Parrot. 2 more this week plus poss Alfie Dorrington. Need to do more with these players. Hope the new regime can improve matters.

Just having a very quick look through Liverpool's loans, and some that stick out:
Calvin Ramsey - 2 games at Preston (likely to be recalled)
Fabio Carvalho - 9 games at Leipzig (ended early)
Rhys Williams - 0 appearances at Aberdeen (ended early)
James Balagazi - 3 appearance at Wigan (ended early)
Nat Phillips - 6 appearances at Celtic

Of course there are some successes as well, but we have success in Devine and Parrott for example. It's not easy for any team

 

[mark87]

 

[mark87]

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Just having a very quick look through Liverpool's loans, and some that stick out:
Calvin Ramsey - 2 games at Preston (likely to be recalled)
Fabio Carvalho - 9 games at Leipzig (ended early)
Rhys Williams - 0 appearances at Aberdeen (ended early)
James Balagazi - 3 appearance at Wigan (ended early)
Nat Phillips - 6 appearances at Celtic

Of course there are some successes as well, but we have success in Devine and Parrott for example. It's not easy for any team

Just recalled one from scotland…Beck a full back who has done well.
Full back came on v Arsenal was Bolton player of the year last season.
can’t count natphilips..he is 26 I think
i don’t think it is easy but they seem to have a lot more out than us.

 

[spurs9]

Just recalled one from scotland…Beck a full back who has done well.
Full back came on v Arsenal was Bolton player of the year last season.
can’t count natphilips..he is 26 I think
i don’t think it is easy but they seem to have a lot more out than us.

Beck is 21 and this is his first successful loan out of 3.

As @bombarda says, they have some successes, as we do but, like us, they have a lot of poor loans too. It's obviously not easy getting good loans for youth players.

 

[danielneeds]

I don’t like that football has come to this, but we could really use a feeder club in Belgium or Holland or Austria, somewhere we can send one or two kids a year where they can get used to playing against adults at a reasonable level and where they won’t get abandoned at the first sign of trouble or a managerial swap. Wouldn’t think it needs to be as formal as ENIC buying another club, some sort of partnership would do.

It’s absolutely wild to me that Levy’s never pursued this.

 

[Sophos151]

It’s absolutely wild to me that Levy’s never pursued this.

IIRC we had something like this with Swindon 2010-2014ish, though that might have just been Sherwood’a contacts as it stopped pretty much immediately when he left.

And going back another decade, I think ENIC owned some foreign clubs too, don’t remember us doing much business with them though.

 

[Locotoro]

It’s absolutely wild to me that Levy’s never pursued this.

I think ENIC did originally pursue this before they took over at Spurs. They owned Rangers and a couple of European clubs. But I believe the restrictions on multiple club ownership was less flexible at that stage.

 

[Shanks]

Just for context as some are saying its an issue we have taking youngsters from under 18 to first team - this isn't a spurs issue, but any every club in the country issue.

Those that sign a scholarship, less then 2% make it to the highest level (maybe a slightly higher percentage).

We were sat down and told these stats at the beginning of my.lads scholarship as they put a huge amount of emphasis on the importance of the edu action programme provided (not that many of the kids take that seriously either).

It's stacked heavily against individuals getting to the very highest level or even first team football in the lower leagues.

It's not a spurs problem, but a football issue - some of that not even a football issue but down to luck or growth too, and many reach there level of football at 17/18 too

 

[Krafty]

It’s also pure maths - if each team had only 11 youngsters in each year, the Premier League would have 220 youngsters ‘coming of age’ each season on average.

There just isn’t the space for all of them, even before you take into consideration transfers coming in from outside the league. Spurs don’t naturally turnover that many senior professionals each season (it’s the previous years kids who get turned over).

With Ange as manager there will at least be an impression, until proven otherwise, that our young players will be attacking, front foot players, taught to go out and win games no matter the scenario, which is more attractive to other clubs than dour, negative, defensive/retreat mindset players.

just got to make the most of it, for us and the players. And not buy more senior professionals who don’t cut the mustard/fit the managers plans and just get in the way

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Beck is 21 and this is his first successful loan out of 3.

As @bombarda says, they have some successes, as we do but, like us, they have a lot of poor loans too. It's obviously not easy getting good loans for youth players.

Yes but my point was that hardly any of our youth players go out on loans compared to Liverpool and Chelsea. Whether they are good is a matter of opinion. A few of ours have not done well over the years but still made our first team.
They just need to get out and play proper football
2 out so far this window plus Dorrington lined up for Millwall

 

[Westmorlandspur]

It’s also pure maths - if each team had only 11 youngsters in each year, the Premier League would have 220 youngsters ‘coming of age’ each season on average.

There just isn’t the space for all of them, even before you take into consideration transfers coming in from outside the league. Spurs don’t naturally turnover that many senior professionals each season (it’s the previous years kids who get turned over).

With Ange as manager there will at least be an impression, until proven otherwise, that our young players will be attacking, front foot players, taught to go out and win games no matter the scenario, which is more attractive to other clubs than dour, negative, defensive/retreat mindset players.

just got to make the most of it, for us and the players. And not buy more senior professionals who don’t cut the mustard/fit the managers plans and just get in the way

That last line is the most important. Keep away from the bad buys. We have had more than enough over the last few years.
Have had to give Genoa a free player just to get him out of the building. If Spence doesn’t get the message now he never will.

 

[kev1nxxx]

If the EPL were really serious about ensuring youngsters get opportunities then why not something like your first 3 subs as before can be anyone off the bench but the last 2 if you wish to use 5 subs must be u18/u21 youngsters? Would it work? Dunno but worth a try imo

 

[Trix]

Yes but my point was that hardly any of our youth players go out on loans compared to Liverpool and Chelsea. Whether they are good is a matter of opinion. A few of ours have not done well over the years but still made our first team.
They just need to get out and play proper football
2 out so far this window plus Dorrington lined up for Millwall

You only need to look at how much they are getting(and where they are going) for their "not good enough for them" youth team players to see that them getting first team football is massively important be it at the club or on loan.