Tactically Inept?

[Misfit]

To be fair to him, in the WB game you could see him on the sidelines shaking his head and mouthing 'no', 'no', 'no' at some of the play he was seeing; so it was evident that info hadn't sunk into some of the players.

Pleasantly surprised as well, looking forward to what he has in store for a fully fit squad.

Right, I'm off to the pub....

Exactly. That will come and only after some time working on it. As it is that time is almost nil with matches flying at him every 3 or 4 days. I think it will come in. It'll be interesting, if nothing else, to see where this goes.

This being THFC my money is on ultimate disaster, likely with Tim being some sacrificial lamb and the bad guy - he'll have developed a new strain of anthrax or something - by the time the THFC press office are called into to do their work.

 

[SpurSince57]

But then Harry didn't understand why we dropped off around March time in his final season and threw away a 9 point gap. It's all very well telling the players to go run around a bit when they're motivated and seem to have a natural understanding of each others game. It's when things turn to shit that a talented analytical and tactical eye is essential.

I do like Harry's approach to football, look first at getting the best out of your own team. AVB I think was the complete opposite and looked first at how to disrupt our opponents (and just simply had no idea how to get the most out of his squad). What's needed is a balance with the primary focus on your own game but a keen eye on what you can do to disrupt the oppositions and importantly a good eye for the shape of a match that will enable you to change things if the oppositions natural game is exposing your own.

I'm amazed that people actually believe that was all Harry ever said to players. It also seemed to escape people at the time, and continues to escape them now, that having to face Arsenal, United, Chelsea and Everton in the space of five games, three of them away, with a potentially awkward home game against Stoke thrown in, would see most if not all of that 9-point lead wiped out. Added to which, there were questions over rotation, or lack of (although the squad's strength in depth was nothing like it is now), and it's impossible to believe that Harry wasn't to some extent distracted by the England job—he certainly made several eccentric decisions. Parker and King also suffered injuries and serious loss of form. And perhaps we were just due a bad run.

 

[Spursidol]

A lot of the 'stuff' around Sherwood originally (including him being tactically inept) stemmed from the fact that he was not a qualified coach - he has passed the UEFA A and UEFA B coaching qualifications but not the UEFA Pro qualification - which is required to manage in the PL - but neither had Paul Ince at Blackburn, Glenn Roeder, Gareth Southgate and Avram Grant who have also all managed in the Premier League without the license but been given the time to gain the licence.

However look at Chris Ramsey, Sherwood's apparant no 2. In the words of Windy 'he's insanely over qualified'

'Ramsey has achieved a lot in a distinguished coaching career – he has coached the England U20 side to the 1999 FIFA World Youth Championship. He has worked for the FA as a Regional Director of Coaching. He was a scout for the England team under Keegan. As well as the UEFA Pro Licence, which he obtained in 2004, he has an FA Coach Education Diploma, a diploma in Treatment of Sports Injuries and also a first degree in Education, and Masters in Science. He was recently asked by Peter Taylor to be his Assistant Head Coach for the England Under-20 side for this summer’s FIFA World Cup in Turkey'.

Oh and by the way, Ramsey failed AVB at his first attempt at the UEFA B qualification, as Ramsey was one of the assessors on the course.

Ramsey had a big input into tactics and formations when Sherwood/Ramsey/Ferdinand managed the development squad and u21/u19 sides and I am sure he will be playing the same role with the first team.

The new management team have got the first team attacking players working together in a way that AVB could not achieve, with the result that in 2 games out of 5 we have scored 3 goals (not achieved under AVB this season) and 2 goals against ManU - versuus AVB's record of under a giooal again. This within just a few games.

Yes I've been very surprised by the apparant 442 formation (different to the 4231/433 formation they played in the development squad) but I suspect its as much to accomodate the returning Adebayor and Soldado in one team than anything else.

As others have said, its not a typical 442 with both strikers dropping off, Adebayor going wide and deep to the left whilst Soldado's passing and crossing has caught my eye, as has Erikssen being played as a LW (as was Modric initially under HR) but drifting into the no 10 position whilst Lennon cuts inside to deliver crosses.

Its not the finished article but this atack now gets more than one player in the box (Soldado was often isolated in the box under AVB), its flexible and unpredicatable as to what those players are doing and consequently difficult for defenders to defend against.

Paulhino and Dembele were also unrecogiseable against Stoke - and I'd suggest once we get a full compliment back frm the injury room, we'll see continued improvement there.

I'll admit that I have been nervous that Ramsey would struggle with putting to work his considerable skills in the PL with Sherwood, but I've been deklighted with what I've seen so far.

By the way, towards the end of the ManU match Spurs switched to a 4231. In future matches look out for multiple changes of formation in a match, Sherwood/Ramsey were famous for multiple (sometimes 3 or 4) changes of formation during u21 matches - it prevents the opposition being able to set up their team to counter Spurs and screws them up.

There are bound to be both ups and downs, but I am now confidfent that we have a skilled management team to at least take us through to the end of the season.

Tactically inept - your 'aving a laugh, Ramsey teaches the tactics course to prospective UEFA coaches !

 

[EQP]

^^ just to add to this well put together post, they haven't even had a full week with the team to properly assess all options and tweak things. I'm sure by the time Palace rolls around we'll be seeing the infancy of how Tim and Co want us to play.

 

[Ionman34]

A lot of the 'stuff' around Sherwood originally (including him being tactically inept) stemmed from the fact that he was not a qualified coach - he has passed the UEFA A and UEFA B coaching qualifications but not the UEFA Pro qualification - which is required to manage in the PL - but neither had Paul Ince at Blackburn, Glenn Roeder, Gareth Southgate and Avram Grant who have also all managed in the Premier League without the license but been given the time to gain the licence.

However look at Chris Ramsey, Sherwood's apparant no 2. In the wods of Windy 'he's insanely over qualified'

'Ramsey has achieved a lot in a distinguished coaching career – he has coached the England U20 side to the 1999 FIFA World Youth Championship. He has worked for the FA as a Regional Director of Coaching. He was a scout for the England team under Keegan. As well as the UEFA Pro Licence, which he obtained in 2004, he has an FA Coach Education Diploma, a diploma in Treatment of Sports Injuries and also a first degree in Education, and Masters in Science. He was recently asked by Peter Taylor to be his Assistant Head Coach for the England Under-20 side for this summer’s FIFA World Cup in Turkey'.

Oh and by the way, Ramsey failed AVB at his first attempt at the UEFA B qualification, as Ramsey was one of the assessors on the course.

Ramsey had a big input into tactics and formations when Sherwood/Ramsey/Ferdinand managed the development squad and u21/u19 sides and I am sure he will be playing the same role with the first team.

The new managementr team have got the first team attacking players working together in a way that AVB could not achieve, with the result that in 2 games out of 5 we have scored 3 goals (not achieved under AVB this season) and 2 goals against ManU - versuus AVB's record of under a giooal again. This within just a few games.

Yes I've been very surprised by the apparant 442 formation (different to the 4231/433 formation they played in the development squad) but I suspect its as much to accomodate the returning Adebayor and Soldado in one team than anything else.

As others have said, its not a typical 442 with both strikers dropping off, Adebayor going wide and dep to the left whilst Soldado's passing and crossing has caught my eye, as has Erikssen being played as a LW (as was Modric initially under HR) but drifting into the no 10 position whilst Lennon cuts inside to deliver crosses.

Its not the finished article but this atack now gets more than one player in the box (Soldado was often isolated in the box under AVB), its flexible and unpredicatable as to what those players are doing and consequently difficult for defenders to defend against.

Paulhino and Dembele were also unrecogiseable against Stoke - and I'd suggest once we get a full compliment back frm the injury room, we'll see continued improvement there.

I'll admit that I have been nervous that Ramsey would struggle with putting ton work his considerable skills in the PL with Sherwood, but I've been deklighted with what I've seen so far.

By the way, towards the end of the ManU match Spurs switched to a 4231. In future matches look out for multiple changes of formation in a match, Sherwood/Ramsey were famous for multiple (sometimes 3 or 4) changes of formation during u21 matches - it prevents the opposition being able to set up their team to counter Spurs and screws them up.

There are bound to be both ups and downs, but I am now confidfent that we have a skilled management team to at least take us through to the end of the season.

Tactically inept - your 'aving a laugh, Ramsey teaches the tactics course to prospective UEFA coaches !

Nice post.

In essence it is pretty much what I was trying to get across, to 'manage' your staff you don't have to be the most qualified guy in the room, you just need the ability to get the best out of your staff.

 

[hodsgod]

A lot of the 'stuff' around Sherwood originally (including him being tactically inept) stemmed from the fact that he was not a qualified coach - he has passed the UEFA A and UEFA B coaching qualifications but not the UEFA Pro qualification - which is required to manage in the PL - but neither had Paul Ince at Blackburn, Glenn Roeder, Gareth Southgate and Avram Grant who have also all managed in the Premier League without the license but been given the time to gain the licence.

However look at Chris Ramsey, Sherwood's apparant no 2. In the wods of Windy 'he's insanely over qualified'

'Ramsey has achieved a lot in a distinguished coaching career – he has coached the England U20 side to the 1999 FIFA World Youth Championship. He has worked for the FA as a Regional Director of Coaching. He was a scout for the England team under Keegan. As well as the UEFA Pro Licence, which he obtained in 2004, he has an FA Coach Education Diploma, a diploma in Treatment of Sports Injuries and also a first degree in Education, and Masters in Science. He was recently asked by Peter Taylor to be his Assistant Head Coach for the England Under-20 side for this summer’s FIFA World Cup in Turkey'.

Oh and by the way, Ramsey failed AVB at his first attempt at the UEFA B qualification, as Ramsey was one of the assessors on the course.

Ramsey had a big input into tactics and formations when Sherwood/Ramsey/Ferdinand managed the development squad and u21/u19 sides and I am sure he will be playing the same role with the first team.

The new managementr team have got the first team attacking players working together in a way that AVB could not achieve, with the result that in 2 games out of 5 we have scored 3 goals (not achieved under AVB this season) and 2 goals against ManU - versuus AVB's record of under a giooal again. This within just a few games.

Yes I've been very surprised by the apparant 442 formation (different to the 4231/433 formation they played in the development squad) but I suspect its as much to accomodate the returning Adebayor and Soldado in one team than anything else.

As others have said, its not a typical 442 with both strikers dropping off, Adebayor going wide and dep to the left whilst Soldado's passing and crossing has caught my eye, as has Erikssen being played as a LW (as was Modric initially under HR) but drifting into the no 10 position whilst Lennon cuts inside to deliver crosses.

Its not the finished article but this atack now gets more than one player in the box (Soldado was often isolated in the box under AVB), its flexible and unpredicatable as to what those players are doing and consequently difficult for defenders to defend against.

Paulhino and Dembele were also unrecogiseable against Stoke - and I'd suggest once we get a full compliment back frm the injury room, we'll see continued improvement there.

I'll admit that I have been nervous that Ramsey would struggle with putting ton work his considerable skills in the PL with Sherwood, but I've been deklighted with what I've seen so far.

By the way, towards the end of the ManU match Spurs switched to a 4231. In future matches look out for multiple changes of formation in a match, Sherwood/Ramsey were famous for multiple (sometimes 3 or 4) changes of formation during u21 matches - it prevents the opposition being able to set up their team to counter Spurs and screws them up.

There are bound to be both ups and downs, but I am now confidfent that we have a skilled management team to at least take us through to the end of the season.

Tactically inept - your 'aving a laugh, Ramsey teaches the tactics course to prospective UEFA coaches !

I watched the Man U game yesterday, and I was pleasantly surprised by the flexibility of the front six. They all seemed to be aware of their defensive duties, and when we had the ball the movement was great compared to how it was just a few weeks ago.

someone has done a good job, and long may it continue.

 

[weststandvoice]

I'm amazed that people actually believe that was all Harry ever said to players. It also seemed to escape people at the time, and continues to escape them now, that having to face Arsenal, United, Chelsea and Everton in the space of five games, three of them away, with a potentially awkward home game against Stoke thrown in, would see most if not all of that 9-point lead wiped out. Added to which, there were questions over rotation, or lack of (although the squad's strength in depth was nothing like it is now), and it's impossible to believe that Harry wasn't to some extent distracted by the England job—he certainly made several eccentric decisions. Parker and King also suffered injuries and serious loss of form. And perhaps we were just due a bad run.

I heard that atomic bomb they dropped on Japan caused a right kerfuffle.

 

[Samson]

I'm amazed that people actually believe that was all Harry ever said to players. It also seemed to escape people at the time, and continues to escape them now, that having to face Arsenal, United, Chelsea and Everton in the space of five games, three of them away, with a potentially awkward home game against Stoke thrown in, would see most if not all of that 9-point lead wiped out. Added to which, there were questions over rotation, or lack of (although the squad's strength in depth was nothing like it is now), and it's impossible to believe that Harry wasn't to some extent distracted by the England job—he certainly made several eccentric decisions. Parker and King also suffered injuries and serious loss of form. And perhaps we were just due a bad run.

Sure, but the successes of 2009-10 and the excitement of the CL run tend to obscure the fact that he managed 62 points in 2010-11. That will never get you CL and will usually get you the sack at Tottenham, as Jol and now AVB have found. Redknapp got a stay of execution, his players (Parker, Friedel and Adebayor), chucked the Carling Cup and Europa, and managed a 6 point improvement. The slump is arguably irrelevant, given that 3rd was in our hands with 2 games to go.

 

[SpurSince57]

Sure, but the successes of 2009-10 and the excitement of the CL run tend to obscure the fact that he managed 62 points in 2010-11. That will never get you CL and will usually get you the sack at Tottenham, as Jol and now AVB have found. Redknapp got a stay of execution, his players (Parker, Friedel and Adebayor), chucked the Carling Cup and Europa, and managed a 6 point improvement. The slump is arguably irrelevant, given that 3rd was in our hands with 2 games to go.

But the point I was trying to make was that our failure to secure third spot in 2011-12 was due to a whole range of factors, not simply poor tactical decisions or Harry's being away with the fairies because of the England job. For that matter, I don't believe results were the sole reason he, Villas-Boas and Jol got the bullet either.