The beginning of the end...

[rossdapep]

Possibly answered your own question mate.

Frustration turning to a lack of enthusiasm from Poch?

He's rightly lauded for doing so well and then doesn't feel he's appreciated enough because we havnt adapted to keep him happy - in some respects?

Speculating but I'm guessing that's the thrust of it.

Guardiola said last week he doesn't think Poch believes him when he gives him praise, which leads me to think he can be quite sensitive at times and get the huff a bit too easily. I know he's an emotional guy but we need him to stop with the "woe, is me" attitude and turn it into fighting talk, get this team fighting and believing again.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Supported Spurs for around 55 years. Was too young to properly appreciate Bill Nich. Enjoyed the Burkinshaw years, but with all the challenges he’s had to deal with in growing us as a club in the modern game, Poch’s easily the best Spurs coach in my memory, and he’s been the most transformative in helping to put us in a position that we could only have dreamed of just a few years ago.

Don’t have a clue what’s going on behind the scenes, just that there's some negativity that’s actually impacting the ability of the coach to get the best out of his players to work as a team. Hope to god it’s all worked out, and it’s Poch that sees us through these challenges.

Talk of Mourinho etc is depressing on many levels, but apart from anything else, it’ll just lead to more instability, both short and long term.
Poch, Levy, players…sort it out! Hopefully, we emerge stronger from this.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Poch is a fantastic man manager. He has motivated and given confidence to mediocre players to the point where they have played like world beaters. He is not that great tactically, and our play, especially in attack has always been about individuals creating more than a system. When his man management is no longer as effective, we are left with what we saw yesterday...

Which points to the biggest part of what he'll leave behind when he departs. There will be no trophies, no winning mentality, and no brand of fottie left behind if he leaves this season. The Poch effect lead us actually to a predominantly financial heritage. With no squad investments, he secured CL several seasons in a row and will some day depart a club that firstly is much more wealthy than he arrived, but sadly not more successful.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Supported Spurs for around 55 years. Was too young to properly appreciate Bill Nich. Enjoyed the Burkinshaw years, but with all the challenges he’s had to deal with in growing us as a club in the modern game, Poch’s easily the best Spurs coach in my memory, and he’s been the most transformative in helping to put us in a position that we could only have dreamed of just a few years ago.

Don’t have a clue what’s going on behind the scenes, just that there some negativity that’s actually impacting the ability of the coach to get the best out of his players to work as a team. Hope to god it’s all worked out, and it’s Poch that sees us through these challenges.

Talk of Mourinho etc is depressing on many levels, but apart from anything else, it’ll just lead to more instability, both short and long term.
Poch, Levy, players…sort it out! Hopefully, we emerge stronger from this.

Billy Nick was great but I think Blanchlower influenced a lot of his decisions

 

[shelfboy68]

Sorry but I have this bad feeling that we will end up the laughing stock as usual to the wider audience and we will be looking for another manager, can't wait for the NLD a game that we regularly never turn up in certainly not home or away last year or every year away.

 

[dricha1]

Guardiola said last week he doesn't think Poch believes him when he gives him praise, which leads me to think he can be quite sensitive at times and get the huff a bit too easily. I know he's an emotional guy but we need him to stop with the "woe, is me" attitude and turn it into fighting talk, get this team fighting and believing again.

I’ve said this before, but I do think Poch is bit of a diva, flippant comments in press conferences, his book, reaction to “Kane’s HT Ajax speech/non-speech?”...he needs his ego massaging from time to time.

For whatever reason he appears to have lost the passion for Spurs/the Project...hope it finds it again soon otherwise it only end one way.

 

[Primativ]

When you think that we were an Arsenal capitulation and a VAR decision away from not getting top 4 and then going out of the CL I think more people would be alarmed about Poch's coaching/management decline this year.

This is the thing, Poch has actually been pretty lucky, last season anyway. I know we had some bad luck moments, but we by rights really should have finished in the Europa League spots. That would have jolted a few more people into reality, but instead, because we got CL, people look at it all with rose tints, because naturally we don't want to face something which isn't to our liking, we want to shy away from it. We don't want to have to deal with the fact that actually we have gone massively backwards. Poch is the man, he's magic, so fans will use any olive branch they can to climb away from the reality, which is the team is a mess.

I remember very clearly that I was moaning in the first half of last season, saying how our performances were not mirroring our results. We continued to pick up results, but the performances were disturbing. I also said the results would eventually turn downwards, because you can't continue to play so poorly and get spawny results. Indeed, the results did eventually turn downwards and started mirroring the performances.

Not only did the CL run gloss over what was a really average season domestically, let's not forget the hugely disappointing NLD's which they took 4 points from, but also the hugely disappointing league cup semi final defeat to Chelsea. That's not even mentioning Poch throwing the FA Cup versus Palace, yes we played a weak team but the performance was disgraceful.

This isn't a sudden thing. I'm calling it now, I honestly do not feel Poch will turn this around. It's been going on far too long for it to be something which will be fixed. Additionally, Poch isn't going to have a eureka moment and change the philosphy and approach to the game. He is what he is. If we want more attractive football, we will need to change the manager.

If ValYids info is correct, the writing is on the wall, and it wouldn't be a surprise, because performances over the past year suggest he has indeed lost the players.

 

[Primativ]

I respect that you are ITK but this is a knee jerk statement which doesn't even make sense.

Val is actually spot on. If you watched Chelsea and Arsenal, despite their limited quality they are fully motivated and going at it. We look anything but. If you can't see the difference, watch again.

 

[leray]

Poch is a fantastic man manager. He has motivated and given confidence to mediocre players to the point where they have played like world beaters. He is not that great tactically, and our play, especially in attack has always been about individuals creating more than a system. When his man management is no longer as effective, we are left with what we saw yesterday...

When you compare Poch to Pep, Klopp or some magical German coach that invented a new system he is not that great tactically, but we're talking about a man that is an elite manager in the best league in the world.

Plus, managers nowadays are more and more like project managers in corporate world. They cooperate with many members of staff that are responsible for the tactical and technical work.

Basically, you can't reach this level without being at least very good in every aspect of the game.

 

[wirE]

It’s early days. Pochettino is 100% commited imo. Why else would we sign Sessegnon, Ndombele and Lo Celso if he wasn’t commited?

 

[The Doc]

Feel like we've swapped places with the Liverpool of just before Klopp's time. They've become the young, dynamic pressing team with infinite energy. We've become shapeless and turgid.

Whisper it quietly but there's almost zero differences between our performances of the last 9 months and AVB's final season.

That City game could've very easily been a 5-0 - the kind of results which drove AVB into an early grave.

Honestly don't know what's happened to Poch - everything about him has changed, particularly in the last year but it started happening after we left WHL and he was in tears on the pitch at the end. He's just so grindingly miserable now, and that misery seems to have infected every aspect of the team, from the way we play to our players desire (or not) to play for Spurs.

Maybe he should've left after the CL final for his own sake as much as anything else. If he's lost the motivation then it's best for everyone that he moves on. If he hasn't, then it's his job to transform this team into something like what it used to be. Step one would be to stop complaining and snapping at journalists non-stop. Step two would be to stop dropping key players and then saying there's no issue and that it's tactical.

Next week's game couldn't really come at a worse time - to be going into the (fucking hateful!!!) international break off the back of two defeats including one to our most bitter rivals will ensure a horrible taste in the mouth for an extended period.

And yet we have quotes from Ndombele explicitly stating Poch's importance to him signing up, and similar from the other three who came in. I doubt it was down to Poch giving them all a lendsie from his Leonard Cohen collection. Honestly, out of those currently out of the team for reasons other than injury or fitness, which ones do you think should be playing? Re: Eriksen - he is usually the fan's whipping boy whenever a result fails to meet expectations. Now he should apparently be the first name on the teamsheet and Poch hasn't got a clue. Seriously, after the miracle he and the players pulled last season with CL qualification and the final itself, there is considerably more credit in the bank than the next few games. Finally, the allusion to unrest and arguments from some on here for Mourinho as the man to sort things out. Wow.

 

[Monkey boy]

It’s so depressing that we’re having these conversations. I’ve loved Poch and everything that he’s done for us but something is obviously not right at the moment. I pray to god that he can turn it around.

 

[Primativ]

Even if we accept the CE situation, believe that Jan is injured and what ever else, why the fuck are we playing like we are and struggling at home to Villa and Newcastle??? Let alone the end of last season when we didnt have those excuses....and its time to end this we start slowly bollox....we will never win anything if we find excuses for our failings....

You are absolutely spot on mate. Last season it was the world cup excuses trotted out everytime we played crap, which was nearly every week. What is the excuse this season? I'm sorry but the world cup clearly wasn't the reason why we played so rubbish, it may have had a marginal effect at the start, but nobody can tell me in the second half of the season (6 months later) that the players were still suffering a hangover from playing 4 games at a world cup, 3 of them against pony opposition.

We start every single game like we are already 5 goals up. There is no desire or intent. Contrast it to how our rivals like Liverpool and City start games. Yet people say we should expect it like it's one of those things because we "just start slowly". It's rubbish. There is clearly something rotten at the club, it's been going on too long.

 

[stevenurse]

Sorry but I have this bad feeling that we will end up the laughing stock as usual to the wider audience and we will be looking for another manager, can't wait for the NLD a game that we regularly never turn up in certainly not home or away last year or every year away.

This is the most frustrating thing, but I suppose being a spurs fan you kinda have to expect it. So much promise, for there ALWAYS to be something to get in the way and derail it. This season should have had nothing but positively about it. Basically breaking our transfer record twice, first full season in the new stadium, players having a proper break and preseason, yet 3 games in its all seemingly going to shit already. Time will tell but if the rumours about Poch are true, the best thing to do would be pull the trigger now.

I'd never have considered that a year ago, and always said he was the one person we couldn't afford to lose. The way its become, and the size we are/the infrastructure we have would make me confident we could attract nearly anyone we wanted. We are a near perfect job when you think about it. Poch needs to give his head a wobble and realise how lucky he is to be at Spurs.

For all the progress we've made, and I see that far more importantly that winning trophies (at least over the last 4/5 years) he still hasn't won anything, and has failed when the opportunity arose to do so we have flattered to decieve. His record recently against the big sides is poor too. Maybe he's believing the hype that isn't really that justified in the 'top tier manager' bracket yet

 

[Primativ]

100%
We have few here asking why is there a knee jerk reaction now...as if there is a calendar to when have such a reaction or not.

Yesterday, against Newcastle at home, its not that we lost 1-0...we lost 1-0 and created even less chances than Newcastle who parked the bus. Seriously, I can remember loads of time , Newcastle broke with pace, had corners & looked threatening. On other hand, we had couple of chances and iffy penalty call. In open play, we didnt create much. On the back of 15 points in 14 games , such a performance warrants analysis & calling out the management and look at the decisions overall.

100%. Newcastle looked like scoring everytime they broke on us. Which was unbelievable but true.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

A lot of talkers in our team. All I hear from winks is how important he is now and it's time to win. But then when the match starts he doesn't try anything positive but plays safe.

It’s almost as if he’s doing what he’s been instructed to do... ?

 

[ohtottenham!]

This is the thing, Poch has actually been pretty lucky, last season anyway. I know we had some bad luck moments, but we by rights really should have finished in the Europa League spots. That would have jolted a few more people into reality, but instead, because we got CL, people look at it all with rose tints, because naturally we don't want to face something which isn't to our liking, we want to shy away from it. We don't want to have to deal with the fact that actually we have gone massively backwards. Poch is the man, he's magic, so fans will use any olive branch they can to climb away from the reality, which is the team is a mess.

I remember very clearly that I was moaning in the first half of the season, saying how our performances were not mirroring our results. We continued to pick up results, but the performances were disturbing. I also said the results would eventually turn downwards, because you can't continue to play so poorly and get spawny results. Indeed, the results did eventually turn downwards and started mirroring the performances.

Not only did the CL run gloss over what was a really average season domestically, let's not forget the hugely disappointing NLD's which they took 4 points from, but also the hugely disappointing league cup semi final defeat to Chelsea. That's not even mentioning Poch throwing the FA Cup versus Palace, yes we played a weak team but the performance was disgraceful.

This isn't a sudden thing. I'm calling it now, I honestly do not feel Poch will turn this around. It's been going on far too long for it to be something which will be fixed. Additionally, Poch isn't going to have a eureka moment and change the philosphy and approach to the game. He is what he is. If we want more attractive football, we will need to change the manager.

If ValYids info is correct, the writing is on the wall, and it wouldn't be a surprise, because performances over the past year suggest he has indeed lost the players.

You can paint whatever context you wish, but he somehow kept an injury-devastated squad together, had to navigate us through the Wembley move, still managed top 4, CL final...yeah sure, the papering over the cracks argument! Them's some big fucking cracks!

Also, Poch's "philosophy and approach" to the game has also seen us play some of the most "attractive football" we've ever played. Think we need just a little patience right now.

 

[stevenurse]

You are absolutely spot on mate. Last season it was the world cup excuses trotted out everytime we played crap, which was nearly every week. What is the excuse this season? I'm sorry but the world cup clearly wasn't the reason why we played so rubbish, it may have had a marginal effect at the start, but nobody can tell me in the second half of the season (6 months later) that the players were still suffering a hangover from playing 4 games at a world cup, 3 of them against pony opposition.

We start every single game like we are already 5 goals up. There is no desire or intent. Contrast it to how our rivals like Liverpool and City start games. Yet people say we should expect it like it's one of those things because we "just start slowly". It's rubbish. There is clearly something rotten at the club, it's been going on too long.

This is my major frustration. We spend the first 20 mins with no tempo, aggression or purpose. Happy to tippy tap it side to side in our own half racking up possession %

Brendan Rogers would get more out of this team right now. What an awful thing to say. But it's true. The year he nearly won the league at Liverpool they must have scored in the first 10 minutes a dozen or more times. They absolutely flew out of the blocks. Please someone do the stats and see how many goals in the first 15 we've scored in the last 2 seasons. You could maybe even extend that to the whole of the first half.

When you piss about doing that, and don't defend properly ala villa and Newcastle, you've thrown away 20 mins and suddenly everything becomes rushed/frantic/desperate. Not saying we could so that every week, but Newcastle at home is as winnable as they come in this league

 

[Ronwol196061]

100%. Newcastle looked like scoring everytime they broke on us. Which was unbelievable but true.

Dont you find that has happened before..often we push up and cant get into the last third and the other team breaks and we don't mark and in open territory with more players than the other team we play a high line and get killed as it goes over the top or through the gap
At the other end it's a brick wall

 

[Joeyboey]

Great break down on 5 Live tonight.

15 points from last 15 League games.

3 wins from last 12 competitive games.

That’s relegation form for the last 6 months.

It’s been going on for long enough for peoples feelings to not be described as Knee jerk. Quite the opposite. We need to turn a corner right now.