The Case For Frank de Boer...continued

[LexingtonSpurs]

Tottenham 24/7 ‏@Tottenham24_7 3 t
- Ajax are currently waiting on Tottenham to pay £5m in compensation for their manager Frank de Boer (Via @HotspurRelated) - #THFC

 

[Larryjanta]

Tbf, it probably was wrong for me to call him a mug, he isnt.

But (IMO) he doesnt deserve to be anywhere near the running for the Spurs job.

for me, this is a problem, the notion of deserving to be manager of us. It leads to a whole section of our fans writing off the manager when their energies should be behind supporting him. IMVHO

 

[cockeral]

I don't rate him whatsoever.

I think his 'achievements' at Southampton have been more down to the squad at his disposal, a squad that are probably good enough to be 7th in the table, rather than his managerial input. He has done nothing special at Southampton, just what was expected.

Regardless of where you've been, to have a win percentage of 34.5% is abysmal. He's won nothing in his career, and isn't the type of manager to breed confidence into our squad. He has done nothing to deserve to be in the running for the spurs job, and frankly, if i was FDB, i'd be insulted that he was my main rival for the job.

Also, the facts remains that he has been bested by Tim Sherwood, TWICE. A man who wouldnt know tactics even if they were stapled to his eyelids.

I dont want a Moyes situation on our hands where he comes in from a smaller team and is completely out of his depth.

FDB is practically begging to join us, a man who was taught by LVG, and a man who has won 4 championships in a row. A winner. Somebody who has a set way of playing, that suits our current squad, and a team of coaches and psychiatrists who would get our players ready tactically and mentally, something our squad is crying out for.

From a players perspective, who are they going to respect and listen to more: a manager who has won nothing, speaks little English, and his biggest achievement is guiding Southampton to 7th, or a former legend of the game, who won everything as a player, then broke Ajax's 6 year wait to be champions in his first season, then went on to win it 3 more times consecutively?

As i said, it must be FDB.

I am actually torn between both FDB and Poch, but to say Poch is a mug is completely ignorant, disrespectful to his achievements and ignores all empirical evidence prior to his arrival at Southampton. They were flirting with relegation and if Adkins had stayed, they probably would have gone down or may have just escaped. Poch not only got them out of trouble but did so playing both an organised and attractive game.

Rogers had won nothing in his career prior to Liverpool (to be fair he still hasn't) and even got sacked by Watford. From a players perspective should Suarez or Gerrard respected his achievements? Furthermore by your rationale Rogers should also be considered a mug and we shouldn't have wanted him anyway near Spurs.

Poch deserves a bunch of credit for what he has done with Southampton, in reality it is no different to what Rogers had done with Swansea, in fact I might argue his achievements far outweigh his. Rogers already had the foundations of a footballng philosophy already in place at Swansea by Martinez and Sousa. Poch did not have this and has imparted his own philosophy.

I know you didn't set out to compare Poch or Rogers, but personally I think the comparisons are apt given your shallow analysis.

But between FDB and Poch I'm still leaning towards FDB, but I'm not sure if I'm more blinded by the fact that he's coming from such a great pedigree, but this doesn't necessarily mean this will translate as a manager in a more competitive league.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

for me, this is a problem, the notion of deserving to be manager of us. It leads to a whole section of our fans writing off the manager when their energies should be behind supporting him. IMVHO

He doesn't deserve to be our manager because he's done absolutely nothing to prove he's capable of accomplishing the objectives that'll be set out to him.

I have no personal vendetta against the guy, he just isnt up to our standards. He isn't a top manager IMO.

If its him or FDB, it's FDB every time, and levy would be making a giant mistake to not pick him too.

 

[Larryjanta]

Also, who decides deserving? It will, surely, be different for everyone.

some will want experience, others raw talent
some will want proof of winning, others will want prem experience
some will want flair, others will want solidity

there are a couple of managers in the world who can.tick multiple boxes and we're damn sure not deserving of them so it leaves us with a compromise. Trouble is,our fans what it all and think its our divine right to get it which inevitably leads to disappointment,in fighting and, within 18 months, the boot.

 

[beats1]

He has already confirmed that he is staying

That may change if Hull beat them in the final

 

[Larryjanta]

He doesn't deserve to be our manager because he's done absolutely nothing to prove he's capable of accomplishing the objectives that'll be set out to him.

I have no personal vendetta against the guy, he just isnt up to our standards. He isn't a top manager IMO.

If its him or FDB, it's FDB every time, and levy would be making a giant mistake to not pick him too.

I kind of get your point and.partially agree but it's the tone and language that concerns me.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

Im not arguing/debating over this.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, and i respect that.

Whether you feel Poch has done a good job at Soton or not, is completely down to your own opinion.

But i'm of the opinion that if you were to choose Pochettino over FDB, you're absolutely mental.

 

[cockeral]

Im not arguing/debating over this.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, and i respect that.

Whether you feel Poch has done a good job at Soton or not, is completely down to your own opinion.

But i'm of the opinion that if you were to choose Pochettino over FDB, you're absolutely mental.

Why are you on a forum then if you don't want views/opinions discussed and debated.

 

[Mr Pink]

Its absolute rubbish that Pochettino hasn't improved Southampton and they are where they should be regardless.

In fact it shows a complete lack of understanding how a coach can influence and change the collective dynamic of a side. Some of the players at Southampton are very good in their own individual right, but the way they've been coached to played as a collective has just about enhanced all of them.

That is very much down to good coaching. And their football is very good, and this wasn't the case before Pochettino arrived.

He might not be the big name everyone wants, or the experience with the big CV, but the evidence on the pitch for the last 18 months or so is stacked high.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

Why are you on a forum then if you don't want views/opinions discussed and debated.

'Im not arguing/debating over this' is a turn of phrase.

I.e. I'm bored of trying to defend my opinion, just because people disagree with me. I'm not saying i'm right and i'm not saying anybody is wrong. Its just my opinion.

I'm more than happy to discuss my views/opinions, but i'm not going to keep defending myself just because people disagree with what i think. Its tedious.

 

[beats1]

Its absolute rubbish that Pochettino hasn't improved Southampton and they are where they should be regardless.

In fact it shows a complete lack of understanding how a coach can influence and change the collective dynamic of a side. Some of the players at Southampton are very good in their own individual right, but the way they've been coached to played as a collective has just about enhanced all of them.

That is very much down to good coaching. And their football is very good, and this wasn't the case before Pochettino arrived.

He might not be the big name everyone wants, or the experience with the big CV, but the evidence on the pitch for the last 18 months or so is stacked high.

I have fears with Pochettino

Mainly that he cant handle a large turnover of players even if quality replaces it. He has fallen out with players in the past and had issues with espanyol management over selling their best players.

Now, none of these issues say he is rubbish manager but its things to expect with us and De Boer has dealt with losing players well which is something I think we haven't considered when looking at managers before

 

[idontgetit]

I like Poch's style but wonder about his management skills. Not seen enough from him yet and the comments on Southampton forums when we've played them raise a few concerns.

FDB is sexy. And knows his shit. And everything we've had so far from Ajax has been pretty tasty! But I worry he's too indirect for the prem. There's plenty of managers out there with systems. And styles. I think our squad will probably suit his but...can he read the game well enough to know what to change if it doesn't? Would he be too arrogant to change? Those things are what killed AVB as a manager

 

[KaribYid]

I don't rate him whatsoever.

I think his 'achievements' at Southampton have been more down to the squad at his disposal, a squad that are probably good enough to be 7th in the table, rather than his managerial input. He has done nothing special at Southampton, just what was expected.

Regardless of where you've been, to have a win percentage of 34.5% is abysmal. He's won nothing in his career, and isn't the type of manager to breed confidence into our squad. He has done nothing to deserve to be in the running for the spurs job, and frankly, if i was FDB, i'd be insulted that he was my main rival for the job.

Also, the facts remains that he has been bested by Tim Sherwood, TWICE. A man who wouldnt know tactics even if they were stapled to his eyelids.

I dont want a Moyes situation on our hands where he comes in from a smaller team and is completely out of his depth.

FDB is practically begging to join us, a man who was taught by LVG, and a man who has won 4 championships in a row. A winner. Somebody who has a set way of playing, that suits our current squad, and a team of coaches and psychiatrists who would get our players ready tactically and mentally, something our squad is crying out for.

From a players perspective, who are they going to respect and listen to more: a manager who has won nothing, speaks little English, and his biggest achievement is guiding Southampton to 7th, or a former legend of the game, who won everything as a player, then broke Ajax's 6 year wait to be champions in his first season, then went on to win it 3 more times consecutively?

As i said, it must be FDB.

I want FDB, 100%, but what you're saying about Pochettino is dead wrong.

I think his 'achievements' at Southampton have been more down to the squad at his disposal, a squad that are probably good enough to be 7th in the table, rather than his managerial input. He has done nothing special at Southampton, just what was expected.

They were 16th when he took over. What people don't understand is he's improved the players. Under Adkins, Lallana, Rodriguez etc wouldn't have been near the England squad never mind talk of going to the World Cup. He didn't inherit a 8th place team, he made them one.

Regardless of where you've been, to have a win percentage of 34.5% is abysmal.

Martinez's win percentage at Wigan was 28.98%

Also, the facts remains that he has been bested by Tim Sherwood, TWICE. A man who wouldnt know tactics even if they were stapled to his eyelids.

If Southampton are where they are suppose to be then we are supposed to beat them as we are supposedly where we should be. It's not like we beat them convincingly either. 3-2 both times, weren't they leading in both games? We have a better squad.

I dont want a Moyes situation on our hands where he comes in from a smaller team and is completely out of his depth.

Rodgers and Martinez came from smaller teams than Southampton and they are doing great jobs.

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

At least with Pochettino, when he tells porkies in media interviews... you can see his nose grow.

 

[shelfboy68]

I have fears with Pochettino

Mainly that he cant handle a large turnover of players even if quality replaces it. He has fallen out with players in the past and had issues with espanyol management over selling their best players.

Now of these issues say he is rubbish manager but its things to expect with us and De Boer has dealt with losing players well which is something I think we haven't considered when looking at managers before

Agree with this and certainly losing players is a big factor a manager at spurs has to be able to cope once Levy decides to cash in which is normally one a season.

 

[Booney]

Wonder how much or if at all the interview process matters in these managerial appointments? And who else will influence the Levy/Lewis decision at that time.

The way it's played out in the media it always feels like a formality as the decision is made long before the manager speaks directly to the club. Would be intrigued to know though if a surprise contender could get themselves to the top of the queue because of the interview itself. I always wondered if Sven kept landing himself jobs just because he would present himself and speak on the day.

 

[HoltbiusMac]

Wonder how much or if at all the interview process matters in these managerial appointments? And who else will influence the Levy/Lewis decision at that time.

The way it's played out in the media it always feels like a formality as the decision is made long before the manager speaks directly to the club. Would be intrigued to know though if a surprise contender could get themselves to the top of the queue because of the interview itself. I always wondered if Sven kept landing himself jobs just because he would present himself and speak on the day.

Haven't people insinuated in the past that AVB interviews very well?

 

[SlunkSoma]

Wonder how much or if at all the interview process matters in these managerial appointments? And who else will influence the Levy/Lewis decision at that time.

The way it's played out in the media it always feels like a formality as the decision is made long before the manager speaks directly to the club. Would be intrigued to know though if a surprise contender could get themselves to the top of the queue because of the interview itself. I always wondered if Sven kept landing himself jobs just because he would present himself and speak on the day.

That's a good point re Sven. Always came across as quite damp on post match interviews - but whenever players talk about him he sounds a completely different charismatic person.

In our case I would say both LVG and FDB interviewed with us in December, and we've been talking ever since. FDB must have REALLY impressed to be in the running up against LVG.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

calling someone like him a mug shows exactly why we keeping finding ourselves in the same position. A manager is written off by a section of our fans before he has even got the job. I don't doubt it would be the same if FDB got the job but it's the hyperbole and name calling that damages us.

I would rather FDB as well but would get fully behind whoever takes over rather than write them off and wait for them to fail so I could crow about always knowing they were a mug

Some of us write them off because unlike Daniel Levy, and you, we can see they're going to be rubbish.
If we signed a rubbish player most fans would cringe. What's different about a manager?
If Pochetino got the job at spurs I'll be making a decent sized bet at the bookies he won't last two seasons.
Totally with @SargeantMeatCurtains on this one. I've watched Southampton and they're as bad to watch as we were under AVB, relying primarily on cutting in and long range shooting.