The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 10th August

[Armstrong_11]

Fingers cross that we can shift some dead weight. We might need to be content with a loan and hopefully the club will be willing to pay 50% to 80% of the salary. I don't see any club willing to fork out 200k a week for Tanguy... 100k is also a tough ask.

I think whatever we get from now to the end of the window will be a bonus. We settled our most pressing issue with a first team center back, added a magician in midfield and added youthful blood to the team. Not a perfect window... But I think if we have a manager who looks to develop players to play his style, not Jose or Conte who brings in players they trust to play their style.

Personally, I think it's a clean slate for everyone... If they choose to put in the hard work they might just get their chance to shine.

COYS!

 

[Rob]

I'm assuming smaller teams with lower salaries?

Yeah, Atletico are a tiny Spanish team...

 

[mil1lion]

I think it's more simply that Levy doesn't want to pay wages for players who can't be registered. Gone are the days we have players left out of the squad. We loaned them all under Conte when he didn't want them around. This is where I really think we need to bring 1 or 2 u21s in who don't need to be registered yet. With player contracts ending next year or in 2 we would be ok when they turn 21. We still need to shift a few just to break even on the limit of non homegrown. As long as we register the required numbers and have none left who can't be registered by 11pm next Friday I think Levy will be fine. I think the Doherty situation haunts him a bit too.

 

[Tucker]

I'm not sure I understand what the argument from people is, we should be termintating players contracts? Asking for less money?

It seems so far that players are getting offers, we're accepting offers, but players don't want to move to I'm assuming smaller teams with lower salaries?

I get that some of that can be leveled at Levy in terms of signing players that haven't worked out, but it seems to me as if he is actively, or we are actively looking to offload players. And last year saw us cancel contracts for at least Doherty's move, and seemingly we've been willing to do the same for Lloris?

Off the top of my head there’s a few players we’ve let move on cheaply or for nothing towards the end of their contract.

Alderweireld.
Sissoko
Dele
Aurier
Doherty
Winks
Lamela

So while it’s frustrating that the club hasn’t moved on the players we want to yet this window, it’s far from certain that we won’t just bite the bullet and push people out the door where it’s possible to do so.

We are likely stuck with the expensive millstone around our necks that Ndombele has become. But I think we’ll see Lloris move on one way or another. Hopefully the interest in the likes of Reguilon, Dier, and Tanganga firms up in the coming week and we can push on from there.

 

[nicdic]

Yeah, Atletico are a tiny Spanish team...

OK, how seriously are they actually trying to sign PEH? Have they made a proper bid? Last things I remember reading on it, they too needed to sell before buying, and hadn't got people out yet.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

It's possible that the PEH link to Atletico is similar to the Kane link to City a couple of years ago - driven more by the player's side than the team. City were willing to sign Kane, if they got him at a good price, and I suspect it might be the same with Atletico - they would sign PEH at a good price, but otherwise won't stretch the budget.

 

[SambaSpurs]

Reguilon - Loan to Atletico 30th Aug
Winks - Loan to Sampdoria 30th Aug
Ndombele and Lo Celso loans were completed with 10 days to go

The above is from last year. Loans do seem far easier/more quickly to sort - I do think we will get players out but pretty much all will be on free/loans, some of which subsidised as there is seemingly no market for them, or none they agree to. Feels like Ndombele is holding out for a subsidised loan to France or somewhere rather than a sale to Turkey. Also Hojbjerg/Sanchez look like useful squad options to Ange so would only go for a suitable fee - that hasn’t come all window and is unlikely to in the last week surely?

Lloris, Reguilon, Ndombele, Tanganga, Spence - these all seem v likely imo. Possibly Dier when he realises he is 4th/5th choice.

Encouraging that we have 3 lined up if sales go through (cheers WLB). Going off previous ITK from yesterday and Ali G comment, Johnson seems someone we are likely to move on for the ST/RW - probably try and use Spence to lower a fee if we can. Schuurs or Tosin have been the main ITK links at CB and are seemingly still options. Perhaps Orban as well but that might be a push.

 

[felmani26]

Amortisation is just an accounting thing though, and it is a way of paying/writing off expenditure over a period of time.

For example, if a sparky buys a brand new van they can write off the cost over say 5 years instead of one large lump sum.

After 5 years, the 'amortised' value of the van is 0. But, that doesn't mean the value of the van is 0: you don't see a glut of 5 year old vans being scrapped because they have been 'amortised'.

There is a big difference between real world and accounted world: even if a players transfer has been accounted for in the accounts and satisfied, said player still holds a value even if that value is only nominal.

No, the van in this case would be depreciated as a tangible fixed asset over it's useful economic life and typically you would use reducing balance and not straight line for these purposes.

If we did use your scenario and used straight line then yes after 5 years the value on the balance sheet under TFA would be £0 and if sold then this would be reflected as a profit on disposal in the Profit & Loss which then consequently gets deducted off profits chargeable to corporation tax but that's not applicable to FFP.

The same would apply with players contracts so using Ndombele, the carrying value would be £22m (2 years left based on 3/5 year contract from £55m) so the hit in the P&L would surely be this as a Loss on Disposal with then the wages paid up in advance/settlement shown separately but again in the P&L - not the B/S.

Won't bore anymore on the subject but I know enough to make an informed opinion.

 

[yido_number1]

I'm not sure I understand what the argument from people is, we should be termintating players contracts? Asking for less money?

It seems so far that players are getting offers, we're accepting offers, but players don't want to move to I'm assuming smaller teams with lower salaries?

I get that some of that can be leveled at Levy in terms of signing players that haven't worked out, but it seems to me as if he is actively, or we are actively looking to offload players. And last year saw us cancel contracts for at least Doherty's move, and seemingly we've been willing to do the same for Lloris?

In the interest of debat I'd say we had a good idea of what players we would want out before the window. Some like Sanchez and Gio might have surprised.

Others like Ndombers, Dier, Reguillom you'd think we had a good idea. Now I'm not in the know but I'd say there is a checklist of things you might want to do to help clear the decks.

1. Inform the agent to look for a club and incentives them where possible. They are good at finding a move when you don't want them to so not completely incapable

2. Inform the player that you definitely don't want they will not be registered this year and that it's in there interest to go. Offer a financial incentive to move ontop of that.

3. Work closely with the agents to get an idea of the clubs they are interested in and circulate a list of available players and a rough price you would be happy with. Yes it will reduce your negotiating position but it also might grease the wheels.

4. Offer financial incentives like subsidised wages, reduced transfer fee, terminating contracts with payoffs to make them free agents to help them get bigger sign ons.

I appreciate a lot of this requires the player to be willing but I guess making it clear they won't be registered is a good starting pointing to getting them to come inline.

Doherty last year was as a result of a cock up in not understanding the rules and probably done as a last resort. Hopefully we will do the same this year but probably should have been done by now.

 

[Barmby Army]

Not seen much of him over the past couple of years, but the link with Schuurs is very exciting/terrifying if he still plays the way he did at youth level.

He's the ultimate risk/reward centre back, John Stones with the dial turned up. On the ball he treats centre back like it's the Riquelme role, constantly looking to break the lines with passes or runs with a tiny margin for error.

Maybe he's had that side of his game curbed over the past couple of years - if not, he would be fantastic fun to watch.

 

[robertgoulet]

Reguilon - Loan to Atletico 30th Aug
Winks - Loan to Sampdoria 30th Aug
Ndombele and Lo Celso loans were completed with 10 days to go

The above is from last year. Loans do seem far easier/more quickly to sort - I do think we will get players out but pretty much all will be on free/loans, some of which subsidised as there is seemingly no market for them, or none they agree to. Feels like Ndombele is holding out for a subsidised loan to France or somewhere rather than a sale to Turkey. Also Hojbjerg/Sanchez look like useful squad options to Ange so would only go for a suitable fee - that hasn’t come all window and is unlikely to in the last week surely?

Lloris, Reguilon, Ndombele, Tanganga, Spence - these all seem v likely imo. Possibly Dier when he realises he is 4th/5th choice.

Encouraging that we have 3 lined up if sales go through (cheers WLB). Going off previous ITK from yesterday and Ali G comment, Johnson seems someone we are likely to move on for the ST/RW - probably try and use Spence to lower a fee if we can. Schuurs or Tosin have been the main ITK links at CB and are seemingly still options. Perhaps Orban as well but that might be a push.

There's also no benefit to the club to just cut bait on 6-7 players right now just because. It's frustrating as hell but I see why, I deal with troubled assets. You don't write them off until you HAVE to write them off and right now we don't have to. Next week though? Absolutely.

 

[carmeldevil]

There's also no benefit to the club to just cut bait on 6-7 players right now just because. It's frustrating as hell but I see why, I deal with troubled assets. You don't write them off until you HAVE to write them off and right now we don't have to. Next week though? Absolutely.

Disagree. We do need to write them off now. There's zero purpose to keeping Ndombele around even for a potential loan. His contract is a boondoggle and I very much prefer Levy to swallow his pride and remove this mistake. Move on!

 

[robertgoulet]

Disagree. We do need to write them off now. There's zero purpose to keeping Ndombele around even for a potential loan. His contract is a boondoggle and I very much prefer Levy to swallow his pride and remove this mistake. Move on!

So just write it off completely even though in the next 5-6 days you very well could get a fee of 9-10M for him? Even if he says "I'm not going to Turkey" today, in a week that can change when he sees what his options are. You can write him off next week.

 

[mil1lion]

Let's face it, the players we want to shift are the ones that go on deadline day and fans are going "oh god I hope we don't get xxxx, we're really scraping the barrel now, chariman out!". We know what that's like. At least we're not going to be the ones signing them

 

[KingNick]

There's also no benefit to the club to just cut bait on 6-7 players right now just because. It's frustrating as hell but I see why, I deal with troubled assets. You don't write them off until you HAVE to write them off and right now we don't have to. Next week though? Absolutely.

I think we would find loan options for pretty much all the players we don't plan on having in the squad - the question is then the level of contribution to wages.

Timing is then the obvious issue regarding incomings.

 

[KingNick]

Disagree. We do need to write them off now. There's zero purpose to keeping Ndombele around even for a potential loan. His contract is a boondoggle and I very much prefer Levy to swallow his pride and remove this mistake. Move on!

You mean pay him anything up to 15m to go away? Do you not think that then impacts on money available to sign a new player?

 

[Robbo1/2way]

This is as boring as our last 4 years of football!

 

[robertgoulet]

I think it's pretty clear we are planning on getting guys out, based on the ITK. It's unfortunate this is how it has to be (waiting until closer to the end of the window) but if we have already gotten deals warmed up we should still be able to get them done.

 

[Booney]

Only Spurs could simultaneously have a massively over-bloated squad whilst also lacking strength in depth.

 

[jay2040]

There's also no benefit to the club to just cut bait on 6-7 players right now just because. It's frustrating as hell but I see why, I deal with troubled assets. You don't write them off until you HAVE to write them off and right now we don't have to. Next week though? Absolutely.

Depends on your perspective. They already been written off from being in the team probably last season.
So I see it as a fucking long time we been stuck with these players and not just based on this window.