The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 4th July 2014

[Japhet]

One of the best ways we can strengthen our central defence is to get a left back that has even half a scooby how to defend, strengthening either CB position without addressing the LB position would just leave our left flank wide open for opposing teams to exploit

The tactics last season and lack of left side options made us very weak last season. Rose was poor defensively but that was compounded when Sherwood refused to use a defensive midfielder. That combination yielded some shocking results. A decent left back and a left sided player who is prepared to track back will make us so much more solid, and use of a DM in many games will be crucial.

 

[Barry Mead]

the top teams will improve, they will improve at a greater rate than us too. the teams 8 through 20 may well improve but never enough to have a squad as good as the one we currently have so all in all i see us stuck in that awkward position of do we invest and more than likely not really move anywhere as a result or do we just stick with what we have(a talented squad that hasn't been given a chance yet) and at worst drop one place as a result. i'm pretty sure that if the window shut now we would finish 6th or possibly higher, if we sign the players we're supposedly interested in i'm pretty sure we'll finish 6th or possibly higher.

I look at what Dortmund have done in BL, at what AM did last season in La Liga and what the likes of Lille and Montpellier achieved in Lique 1 in recent seasons to show that despite bigger clubs with far more resources teams can still find success.
I wouldn't want to support a club that had no ambition, that simply chose not to try and strengthen and improve the team because they thought other clubs had more money. That is absolutely no way to go about gaining success because with that attitude you are beaten before you even start.
In recent seasons we have become a side that has become a serious CL challenger, now we need to become a regular CL qualifier and we won't do that sitting on our hands hoping that Danny Rose might become a left back or Kyle Naughton will become a right back. It doesn't mean we have to pay fortunes to get a top lb but it does mean we have to work hard scouting the players that can be the next top lb or rb. Porto and Dortmund have shown they can unearth some real talent without paying top prices and ones that are just looking for a bigger stage to show their talent. We have a good reputation of allowing players a platform to show they can be top players. Modric and Bale are a great advert for us, the PL is a great advert for us, London as a location is a great advert for us, our fans are a great advert for us, our training facility is a great advert for us. It's time we ignored the negatives and looked at the positives, stop accepting that teams will always be better than us, in recent seasons we have finished ahead of United, Chelsea, City and Liverpool high time we focussed on that and moved forward rather than crawl into a corner with out tail between our legs
I'm pretty sure if we weed out the poor placers and strengthen those areas with we will finish higher than we would if we ignore them, we can't worry about what others may or may not do, we need to focus on having a strong well balanced squad and playing the best we can. There's always an element of luck over a season, injuries, refs decisions, timing of fixtures, lucky goals against the run of play but first and foremost you have to build as much of your own luck as you can and failing to strengthen weaknesses or simply hoping that players who have consistently struggled are miraculously going to turn into good players is not the way to build that

 

[millsey]

He's better have a big fucking Genie in a bottle when he pops across to spend time with Danny boy next week then. Three managers haven't been able to turn him into a Championship left back let alone a left back in a team purposing to play in the CL.

May say more about the qualities of the managers too. He did fine at Sunderland the year before. He needs coaching and told what to do as he obviously not a bright spark. But with work there may be something I there

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I view it differently. Liverpool went from 7th to 2nd in a season, which is pretty remarkable. I don't even think about where we're finishing per se but I won't rule out anything.

If Pochettino has a similar impact to that at Southampton who knows how well we'll do.

Don't expect anything but don't be a loser/defeatist and rule out things either.

Liverpool also did that by scoring shit loads of goals and almost having no defence. Only three sides in the top ten conceded more goals (including us). The reason Liverpool finished second was clear for all to see, Sturridge and Suarez scored fifty three goals between them, we scored fifty five in total.

At the end of the day Poch could replace the entire back four and we'd realistically still be no better off in our final finishing position come May 2015. The need to score goals (or provide for them) is far more an issue than signing Ben Davies in my opinion.

 

[millsey]

I like Davies but I just think anything over £8m is getting a little steep.

As for more spending, that's difficult as well isn't it? Rodriguez if we can tempt him? Coentrao, Moreno? Even Cashley would be good for a year or two. I like the look of Ghoulam also.

Come to think of it Rojo would be good middle ground actually and i'll be pretty pissed off if we don't go in for him. He shouldn't be more than £15m surely?

You think 8 mill is steep for Davies but you aRe willing to spend 15 million on Rojo?

 

[millsey]

Liverpool also did that by scoring shit loads of goals and almost having no defence. Only three sides in the top ten conceded more goals (including us). The reason Liverpool finished second was clear for all to see, Sturridge and Suarez scored fifty three goals between them, we scored fifty five in total.

At the end of the day Poch could replace the entire back four and we'd realistically still be no better off in our final finishing position come May 2015. The need to score goals (or provide for them) is far more an issue than signing Ben Davies in my opinion.

Or you could say if Liverpool had a half decent defence they would have won the league last year. We've conceded too many goals for as long as I've been a spurs fan. If you don't concede many you are more likely thank not to pick up 3 points

 

[Barry Mead]

The tactics last season and lack of left side options made us very weak last season. Rose was poor defensively but that was compounded when Sherwood refused to use a defensive midfielder. That combination yielded some shocking results. A decent left back and a left sided player who is prepared to track back will make us so much more solid, and use of a DM in many games will be crucial.

For sure. It is not just as simplistic as a new left back, not playing such a high line, the quality of the dm, having some continuity at CB rather than the constant changes we saw last season (granted some unavoidable because of injury) are all factors that can be addressed to allow our current CB's to look a lot better. It doesn't mean we can't strengthen in terms of players but I think selections of players in other roles, constant changes in pairing and unsuitable tactics made us look worse than we should have. Even in the early games under AVB when we didn't concede too many goals we looked an accident waiting to happen in defence and the thrashings we then took came as no surprise but he seemed to think that not conceding was a sign of a strong defence rather than a bit of good fortune

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Perhaps Poch as a football manager feels he might be able to work with some of the players who keyboard bashers right off after a poor run of form.

Man Ure have brought in players without LVG holding a single training session, or being at a PL game last season. Poch has just come through a PL season where he has played Spurs twice and seen (possibly) seventy odd games last season, yet he cannot determine where Spurs need to strengthen without seeing a half fit side train some of whom were at the WC up to yesterday?

I would be sorely disappointed if this is the case.

 

[rabbikeane]

You think 8 mill is steep for Davies but you aRe willing to spend 15 million on Rojo?

More like 12m for Davies is steep, while Sporting probably would listen to a 8m offer on Rojo

 

[Blake Griffin]

Man Ure have brought in players without LVG holding a single training session, or being at a PL game last season. Poch has just come through a PL season where he has played Spurs twice and seen (possibly) seventy odd games last season, yet he cannot determine where Spurs need to strengthen without seeing a half fit side train some of whom were at the WC up to yesterday?

I would be sorely disappointed if this is the case.

man utd had been working on the herrera and shaw deals long before lvg got there, it has nothing to do with him.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Or you could say if Liverpool had a half decent defence they would have won the league last year. We've conceded too many goals for as long as I've been a spurs fan. If you don't concede many you are more likely thank not to pick up 3 points

We lived through purgatory for half of last season playing seven at the back and i don't want groundhog day again. Sooner do a Liverpool and fail than sit through another AVB aberration thank you very much.

There's a half way house and i hope that Poch is the answer. Fact is fifty or sixty odd goals is never going to take you to the promised land in any league irrespective of how good a defence you have.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I fully expect there will be one or two significant signings before long.

And I do mean "expect" and not "hope".

I certainly do not believe for one minute that there's a policy not to spend money on new players either. DL may be many things, and may make his share of mistakes, but he is not entirely stupid and he does understand that his club is competing with other clubs who are not standing still.

Even if you take a very cynical view of his motives, he does know that the best way to maximise the value of his investment is to produce the most successful and attractive team possible. He is conservative on pricing which I do think holds us up sometimes, and sometimes in a big way, but he knows that cash is a depreciating asset whereas a successful team is an appreciating one.

He will be frustrated at stalling last year, and I think he's to blame for much of the Bale fall-out that caused it, but it doesn't alter my view that the club will be trying to keep pace with the wealthier clubs so that the stadium project has a chance of becoming a huge step upwards rather than the white elephant it could otherwise become if progress were to be abandoned.

 

[samsonlevi]

I know I'm behind the times with this one and I apologise as this is clearly old news (although I have just learned of it)....

Garay moved to Zenit for 6 million euros? (The source of the fee is only Wikipedia)

Now my understanding was this lad was quality but this makes me think and feel that I'm missing something....is he not that highly thought of?

Again apologies for the late arrival on this one!!

 

[samsonlevi]

In January we were linked to Dodo of Roma (although im not certain as to how strongly we were linked), have we been linked to this lad again this summer?

Reason I ask is that it appears that A Cole is going to Roma.... does this free up this guy?

 

[y1dk1d]

Dont think anyone said they are happy with 6th, just that that's where they expect us to finish. But as usual on here its been twisted into something else.

THFCSPURS19 said: ↑
"If you relinquish your hope of us getting Top 4, like I and many others have done, life feels a lot better.

No reason to be negative next season. I'm just looking forward to some good football, further gelling of our squad and I'm hopeful of 6th place. Then, we can make strides forwards to trying to get into the CL. I would say that we are in a similar position Liverpool were in and look where they are now. And we have more positives than they did."

Hopeful of 6th suggests being happy with it imo

 

[indianspurs]

I know I'm behind the times with this one and I apologise as this is clearly old news (although I have just learned of it)....

Garay moved to Zenit for 6 million euros? (The source of the fee is only Wikipedia)

Now my understanding was this lad was quality but this makes me think and feel that I'm missing something....is he not that highly thought of?

Again apologies for the late arrival on this one!!

I believe the overall amount was 12 million out of which 6 was paid to Benfica and the rest to agents, third parties,etc. As to why others didn't go for him, believe its because his salary is extremely high. The Russians pay well.

 

[rabbikeane]

From what I've seen elsewhere, Garay went for 12m
It does show how ridiculous it is to shop from Premier League clubs though,
Lovren 20m - Garay 12m.
And it is a good guideline as well to a possible asking price on Rojo

 

[TH1239]

If you relinquish your hope of us getting Top 4, like I and many others have done, life feels a lot better.

No reason to be negative next season. I'm just looking forward to some good football, further gelling of our squad and I'm hopeful of 6th place. Then, we can make strides forwards to trying to get into the CL. I would say that we are in a similar position Liverpool were in and look where they are now. And we have more positives than they did.

The problem with trying to use a 6th place finish this season as a springboard to CL the following season is that you will find it incredibly difficult to keep your three best players (Lloris, Vertonghen, and Eriksen). Given how much money is flooding into the big clubs coffers from CL and the EPL television deal, it's going to be a very hard climb back for us if we don't finish in the top 4 in the coming season. One would hope Levy understands that, too.

I do think we really need three quality signings at LB, LWF, and CB. Money shouldn't be an issue given the amount of outgoing sales we could generate and the television rights deal gives you a little more to play with, as well. If things don't work out this season, you'll likely sell a bunch of top players for profit next season, so why not engage in a bit of net spending if a few special deals pop up (I'd consider someone like Depay, Griezmann, R. Rodriguez, etc to fit this category).

 

[THFCSPURS19]

The problem with trying to use a 6th place finish this season as a springboard to CL the following season is that you will find it incredibly difficult to keep your three best players (Lloris, Vertonghen, and Eriksen). Given how much money is flooding into the big clubs coffers from CL and the EPL television deal, it's going to be a very hard climb back for us if we don't finish in the top 4 in the coming season. One would hope Levy understands that, too.

I do think we really need three quality signings at LB, LWF, and CB. Money shouldn't be an issue given the amount of outgoing sales we could generate and the television rights deal gives you a little more to play with, as well. If things don't work out this season, you'll likely sell a bunch of top players for profit next season, so why not engage in a bit of net spending if a few special deals pop up (I'd consider someone like Depay, Griezmann, R. Rodriguez, etc to fit this category).

Be prepared to not see us finish in the Top 4, mate. It's very unlikely to happen.

 

[dirtyh]

Rose may be staying? Maybe he's awesome at carrying a stretcher or a demon on a ride-on mower