The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - POST MORTEM - 1st February 2022

[homer hotspur]

I find it quite strange how football valuations work. Not long ago, Kulusevski was touted as the next £100m player. We got him for 18 months for under £10m. We only paid £15m for Bentancur who again, by all ccounts is a very good player.

All while getting up to (an allegedly easily achievable) £40m for Dele.

Maybe it's time for certain SC posters to conceed that the people at the club do actually know what they are doing.

Given Dele has only signed for 2.5 years, I can't see Everton paying anything like 40 mill for him , unless they qualify for ECL. It wouldn't make sense for them as in 18 months time he could be running down his contract with them

 

[spids]

Given Dele has only signed for 2.5 years, I can't see Everton paying anything like 40 mill for him , unless they qualify for ECL. It wouldn't make sense for them as in 18 months time he could be running down his contract with them

I imagine we will get a minimum of £10M. And a maximum of £40M. Reality is we'll probably get ~£25M, unless he absilutely smashes it there and then Everton will be happy to pay the full amount anyway. We'll make a profit whatever happens, and have also got £100k per week off our wage bill.

 

[Flashp]

Ins - 5/10

Outs - 8/10.

I've seen Bentancur for Juve a fair bit, and for me he's at best a meh signing. Doesn't offer anything that Højbjerg and Skipp doesn't. Certainly not a creative midfielder in any way, shape or form. More graft and even less silk for our midfield.

Kulusevski looked like a great prospect when at Parma, but has never lived up to the early hype at Juve. Hopefully a change in scenery can help him regain form and focus. If so, we could have a very good player on our hands.

I wasn't really fussed on missing out on Traore, while I would've liked Diaz, but also understand why he'd choose Liverpool over us at the moment.

Getting the players Conte wanted out was imperative, and sets us up nicely for the summer.

Even if Lo Celso and Ndombele are only loans, hopefully they perform and we can sell them on a permanent in the summer. Time for Alli was up as well.
I would've liked to keep Gil, or at least looked to get him a loan in the PL or Championship to get used to the pace. Doesn't really see what he'll gain from going to Valencia, other than games TBF.

 

[hellava_tough]

I find it quite strange how football valuations work. Not long ago, Kulusevski was touted as the next £100m player. We got him for 18 months for under £10m. We only paid £15m for Bentancur who again, by all ccounts is a very good player.

All while getting up to (an allegedly easily achievable) £40m for Dele.

Maybe it's time for certain SC posters to conceed that the people at the club do actually know what they are doing.

It's like any market tbh; the final buying/selling price occurs during a snapshot in time, so to speak.

It's a buyers' market currently, but that could change in the future.

Also, valuations that you see in the press or online, rarely take into account every facet of a potential deal (e.g. a player's personal circumstances, agent demands, the financial health of the clubs involved, the structure of the deal, tax implications, etc).

There's definitely a 'ball-park' figure that is realistic, but depending on the market at the time, this can certainly fluctuate greatly.

 

[hellava_tough]

Ins - 5/10

Outs - 8/10.

I've seen Bentancur for Juve a fair bit, and for me he's at best a meh signing. Doesn't offer anything that Højbjerg and Skipp doesn't. Certainly not a creative midfielder in any way, shape or form. More graft and even less silk for our midfield.

Kulusevski looked like a great prospect when at Parma, but has never lived up to the early hype at Juve. Hopefully a change in scenery can help him regain form and focus. If so, we could have a very good player on our hands.

I wasn't really fussed on missing out on Traore, while I would've liked Diaz, but also understand why he'd choose Liverpool over us at the moment.

Getting the players Conte wanted out was imperative, and sets us up nicely for the summer.

Even if Lo Celso and Ndombele are only loans, hopefully they perform and we can sell them on a permanent in the summer. Time for Alli was up as well.
I would've liked to keep Gil, or at least looked to get him a loan in the PL or Championship to get used to the pace. Doesn't really see what he'll gain from going to Valencia, other than games TBF.

I think those two lads make us a hard-grafting team, as you've alluded to.

Which obviously isn't a bad thing.

If you've got a squad of 100% committed hard-grafters and then sprinkle in some genuine talent, 9 times out of 10 you can achieve something.

 

[C0YS]

Btw, could we not have signed Wout Weghorst for £12m?

I'm pretty sure he could have been a useful addition to the squad over the next 3 or 4 seasons.

But instead he went to Burnley!!

And for £12m!!

I think we (and a lot of teams across Europe) may have missed a trick with this one.

I'm not sure he's good enough. He had a good season last year out but there is little to suggest he would adapt well to the PL. The space in the bundesliga is different. He has been awful on the international stage and European competitions. I think Burnley makes sense for him tbh.

 

[Stamford]

They done well with the incomings, we needed more but was always going to be tough. My only concern with the outgoings is that all we have done is kick the can down the road. We now need to work on new homes for them permanently in the summer anyway which may hamper our business then.

 

[hellava_tough]

They done well with the incomings, we needed more but was always going to be tough. My only concern with the outgoings is that all we have done is kick the can down the road. We now need to work on new homes for them permanently in the summer anyway which may hamper our business then.

By getting TN and GLC out of the club and into environments where they may be happier, I think we've done well to potentially change their mindset.

That will make it easier for a permanent deal to be done in the summer; if they're enjoying themselves at their new clubs, they'll be more likely to stay.

If the players are willing, I could see the clubs involved coming to an agreement.

 

[Spurs 1961]

So time will tell how much the squad has improved. Two signings whom I know little or nothing about. One seems like more of the same as far as midfield is concerned and the other is ‘potential’. No game changers, no flair, no creativity in but a lot out. However this is the way we have chosen to go and hopefully it will get results. Sneak a top four and we will have squad space to buy in the summer without having to wait to sell. That if we actually do it is the smartest thing about the window. It’s just that in recent years we seem to not push through with any plans.

The current squad with the ultra-defensive, fearful playing style confirms my wise decision last year to not renew my season ticket. Whilst I am chained to lifelong support of Spurs I don’t have to pay good money and valuable time watching this stuff. Still Son is still there so we have one player to enjoy.

 

[SpartanSpur]

With Dele out and IMO Gio likely to have his option taken out hopefully we've cleared the decks enough now to get a couple of quality players in early in the summer window. There is no excuse of needing to sell to buy any more, from either a squad numbers or financial point of view.

Hopefully we can achieve that and convince Conte to extend his stay. I think he has been shown this window that we will give him full control on outs. We just need to show him we can back him properly with ins.

Spoiler: Summer Window thoughts

I look at the squad now and I think we have some pretty sellable assets should we require to raise funds:

Expect Lo Celso to get a move back to Spain - Pau Torres swap maybe?
Fancy PSG to move for Ndombele if they don't get Pogba
Sanchez still holds good value on the continent if deemed surplus again
Rodon liked by Brighton and probably other mid to lower PL sides
Tanganga attracting interest from Italy
Gil could become hot property in Spain if his loan goes well
Moura has been linked with MLS
Bergwijn likely to be wanted by Ajax again
Emerson could probably attract intertest from Spain
Doherty might be the hardest one to shift - hopefully can revive his Spurs career between now and the summer and be a handy backup

I know there are still question marks on Ndombele and Lo Celso returning from loan but I think it's now been made very clear to the players and agents that they need to find themselves a new club in the summer. Before we were always guilty of letting them hang around and pick up their paycheck whilst not giving their all. Unless he has injury issues I suspect GLC will do well enough to earn a move anyway. Tanguy as always is a bigger question mark but it's definitely more of a shop window for him now.

So many quality players across Europe with contracts expiring in 6-18 months.

All the ingredients are there for a very big summer and a real squad transformation, if we want it.

Potential targets:

RWB - Lamptey, Maehle, Mazraoui are the more known ones I can think of. Seen names like Baku and Frimpong mentioned a lot
ST - This is a tricky one, think we'll look at Scamacca and De Keteleare again
LCB - Pau Torres, De Vrij will be high on the agenda. Maybe Martinez from Ajax. Not an LCB but probably keeping an eye on De Ligt also.
CM - Think we'll try for Kessie and Brozovic but miss out. Would love us to firm up the Gravenberch interest
GK - Plenty of noises in recent months of us pushing for Sam Johnstone on a free
WF - I think we need to consider looking at someone of similar profile to Diaz if either Bergwijn or Moura leave

 

[walton]

Not going to win many headers though!

Moura says hi

 

[YB123]

GK
RWB
LCB
CF

I'm assuming will be the vital acquisitions in the summer?

 

[freeeki]

I've seen a lot of folk doubting that Lyon will have the kind of money needed to take up the option on Ndombele at the suggested price come the end of the season.

OL have turned a healthy profit on transfer dealings in the last few seasons. In fact their net spend looks like this:

2021/22: £-59M
2020/21: £-15.6M
2019/20: £-29M
2018/19: £-39.3M
2017/18: £-51.3M
2016/17: £1.2M
2015/16: £12.9M

Obviously I don't know what their financial situation is in terms of debts etc, but in terms of raw net spend, they have a lot of money to spend. I don't know if we still owe them anything for Ndombele which could also be discounted from the fee, but given that they've already received £67M from selling players to Newcastle, Palace and Burnley this season, you've got to think that exercising their option on Ndombele won't be a problem for them.

 

[Gbspurs]

I've seen a lot of folk doubting that Lyon will have the kind of money needed to take up the option on Ndombele at the suggested price come the end of the season.

OL have turned a healthy profit on transfer dealings in the last few seasons. In fact their net spend looks like this:

2021/22: £-59M
2020/21: £-15.6M
2019/20: £-29M
2018/19: £-39.3M
2017/18: £-51.3M
2016/17: £1.2M
2015/16: £12.9M

Obviously I don't know what their financial situation is in terms of debts etc, but in terms of raw net spend, they have a lot of money to spend. I don't know if we still owe them anything for Ndombele which could also be discounted from the fee, but given that they've already received £67M from selling players to Newcastle, Palace and Burnley this season, you've got to think that exercising their option on Ndombele won't be a problem for them.

Signing players for €65m euros is to exactly their style. Our hope here is that he does enough for PSG or someone to offer €40m euros or so and we can all move on.

 

[YB123]

Anyone know what Lo Celso's buy option is?

 

[YB123]

They done well with the incomings, we needed more but was always going to be tough. My only concern with the outgoings is that all we have done is kick the can down the road. We now need to work on new homes for them permanently in the summer anyway which may hamper our business then.

Yep we've just polonged the issue with them 2 for a few months. But Ndombele back happy where he was and Lo Celso in the league he thrived, we should have a very good chance of generating at least £50m for the pair.

 

[Dr Know]

I feel we fell short as I really felt we needed a CB and CF at the least. I get what everyone is saying about the summer window and keeping the powder dry. Some even saying that our top 4 rivals didn’t improve. Well I think our rivals have not only kept their powder dry but have a great deal more powder than us! L’Pool just stepped in and killed a move we had for Diaz. That’s just a taster for the summer IMO. I’m not saying that we won’t do some good business (well at least I hope so) but our rivals will certainly have more cash than us to entice players more than we will.
With the other teams not making signings I felt we were sort of in the shopping department on our own and didn’t take full advantage of that.
Again that’s just my opinion, the facts might prove very different.
I’ll give this window a 5/10. I get the happiness to see some of the out goings but we need to remember someone like N’dom who was our record signing was a complete failure and that’s not something to be happy about. I hope FP does better and will judge him after the summer window.
COYS!!

By the way…… I so hate the word dead wood especially when nearly everyone on here had a hard wood when we were linked with player like N’dom

 

[S17PUR]

Reasonably happy with the window, but that's assuming that we do good business in the summer. We needed to knock down the existing building before we can properly rebuild it. We've now done that part and put a couple of the pieces in place.

Ideally we'd have brought in one or two more now to accelerate the process and maybe push us into the top 4, but we still have a chance at that now and hopefully now have a tight knit squad all pushing in the same direction, without any dissenting voices.

Personally would also be quite happy if the smaller squad meant a few more opportunities for the likes of Harvey White to show if he can perform at this level.

 

[ajspurs]

GK
RWB
LCB
CF

I'm assuming will be the vital acquisitions in the summer?

I think another CM has to be in there.

 

[Aphex]

The thing with saying we fell short and we need certain positions filled is it ignores the fact that you need clubs and players to willingly be sold and to come to us. We don’t operate in a vacuum.

I am sure the club would have signed a CB and striker if there was one available, but there wasn’t? So what can we do?

Newcastle for all their money signed Chris Wood. Arsenal need one more than us and signed nobody. United are down two with martial and greenwood and haven’t replaced.

I don’t think the need for a CB is as desperate as some make out. Davies has done well and we have Dier Romero coming back plus Sanchez as back up. Let’s wait to the summer when we may have a chance of signing a Kounde or a Torres rather than a second rate CB.

RWB is the obvious gap but there isn’t loads of them around and if for example Lamptey is a top target but not available until the summer, what can we do? I’d rather the club is deliberate and patient in signing targets so we don’t end up with a load of deadwood which got us into this mess in the first place.

Don’t get me wrong, everything is in the context that summer we go large. If we don’t I’ll be the first one to criticise the club, there can’t be any excuses if summer ends up being a shit show but based on January, I don’t think it is.

The club is clearly listening to Conte, and Paratici has signed players who clearly fit into Contes system. Like he did for Nuno too. I feel confident for the summer.