The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - POST MORTEM - 1st February 2022

[WiganSpur]

Hmm, not so sure about that. Obviously Arsenal, United, Leicester, and West Ham are our closest competitors on the transfer market right now, we can't compete with the rest above, so for them not to invest in this transfer window worries me. Arsenal seemed to have the same idea of offloading deadweight as we did this window, so I guess we can definitely expect some competition from their side, not only for Douglas Luiz.

Leicester have a deep squad, and I don't see how West Ham would beat us to players unless they got in the CL.

Not many top clubs need to do huge amounts, and there's also 20-30 amazing players either going on frees or in the last 12 months. If we're not overly fussy we shouldn't have many problems, aside from Arsenal and a couple of heavyweight European clubs

 

[BPR_U16]

The worst part of the window has been the itk abuse on twatter, occasionally on here and on COYS that’s seen people really fear sharing what they know. When even somewhere as strict as COYS is having problems, it’s a real worry. Something has got to change, people have got to take it for what it is, but they don’t seem to understand. Unless something changes across the board we are going to lose everyone who is kind enough to share snippets they hear. I really don’t know what the answer is. It’s pretty frustrating.

Anyway, let’s hope we’ve made the right moves to help Conte get fourth (or higher). COYS

Couldn't agree more

I have hardly looked at sites in general this window because of the vitriol out there and peoples own agendas.

I continue to pay my monthly contribition to assist in the running of this site but have to question why if i no longer enjoy or use as much.

These days generally only search for info from ITKs i respect, and i thank them for what they do share.

Heres hoping Conte is happy with part 1 and that he is supported fully in the summer.

COYS

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

How have we kicked the can down the road? They weren't going to play here, so this puts them in the shop window. Even if their options aren't picked up, if they play and play well it's way more beneficial for us than if they rot on the bench for Spurs

All of that is true but they haven't left permanently so we have ultimately still got to find them a home come the summer so effectively we have kicked the can down the road. Can't see Lyon paying 65m for Ndombele.

 

[ajspurs]

The worst part of the window has been the itk abuse on twatter, occasionally on here and on COYS that’s seen people really fear sharing what they know. When even somewhere as strict as COYS is having problems, it’s a real worry. Something has got to change, people have got to take it for what it is, but they don’t seem to understand. Unless something changes across the board we are going to lose everyone who is kind enough to share snippets they hear. I really don’t know what the answer is. It’s pretty frustrating.

Anyway, let’s hope we’ve made the right moves to help Conte get fourth (or higher). COYS

I agree mate. For what it's worth I think the ITK thread on here was miles better on the last coiple of days where it became stricter again.

 

[wrd]

I agree mate. For what it's worth I think the ITK thread on here was miles better on the last coiple of days where it became stricter again.

The thing for me was, I don't know why the addition of say the tweets of Romano, AG etc changed things so drastically, why people saw that as an invitation to post all the usual negative shit about the club doesn't add up for me. You can have 1 without the other imo.

 

[WorthATry]

Prof on COYS:

5 hours ago, Nicola_Berti said:

Jjetset on SC says we have already identified the RWB we want for the Summer

He’s right. First and second choices in fact. Unfortunately one of them is at a club that is not eager to do business with us due to past dealings with DL.

 

[eddiebailey]

For someone who's old enough to remember when we regularly signed the best available it's always hard to accept where we are now in the pecking order ,have absolutely no problem with the outgoings and hopefully the 2 Juve lads hit the ground running and improve us,meanwhile I've had to endure Fatty Samuel sticking the boot in as usual in the Mail this morning.
6.5 here.

I am not young and I can never remember a time like that.

 

[eddiebailey]

Prof on COYS:



He’s right. First and second choices in fact. Unfortunately one of them is at a club that is not eager to do business with us due to past dealings with DL.

This is not narrowing this down much.

 

[wrd]

Prof on COYS:



He’s right. First and second choices in fact. Unfortunately one of them is at a club that is not eager to do business with us due to past dealings with DL.

Leave it to Paratici then, solved

 

[Dakes]

The worst part of the window has been the itk abuse on twatter, occasionally on here and on COYS that’s seen people really fear sharing what they know. When even somewhere as strict as COYS is having problems, it’s a real worry. Something has got to change, people have got to take it for what it is, but they don’t seem to understand. Unless something changes across the board we are going to lose everyone who is kind enough to share snippets they hear. I really don’t know what the answer is. It’s pretty frustrating.

Anyway, let’s hope we’ve made the right moves to help Conte get fourth (or higher). COYS

Cancel culture has been a thing for some time on social media and people hold you to everything you say, even their own misinterpretations of it. I think this has now fed into how people see and treat ITKs as well.

 

[JOLLHURN]

"Mum, Dad - I passed all my A Level exams!"

"Hmm, but if you don't get a good degree out of this then we'll be retrospectively ashamed of your A Levels, and we'll disown you"

Nice strawman. If we dont spend in the sumer, where do you think that money is going?

 

[sam_mason]

My guess would be that we started the window wanting to bring in Adama Traore (as an attacking option whether at WB or wide up front) and Kessie (for January) and a.n.other attacking player (whether a striker or a wide player who knows)

Traore got flattered by the reported interest by Barca and decide to go back to the club which rejected him in his youth and Kessie decided to see out his contract with Milan (despite them being open to a deal, which must have been what the Tanganga on loan stuff was all about). Whether assurances were given by these two's agents which were then not honoured, we can only speculate.

With that in mind, the two we've got in fit the bill nicely as good quality, hard working footballers in positions we were looking at. You can never have too many of those.

A right sided wing back or a marquee attacking signing would have been the cherry on the top (and Dembele on a loan would have been really interesting and either brilliant or a complete disaster).

As to the outgoings, we are never seeing Ndombele or Lo Celso back if you ask me, they will be gone in the summer. It does leave us looking a little light on numbers, but if they weren't going to play or contribute anyway, we are probably in a better position now than we were before the window started.

I also think that compared to the teams we are competing with in the league we have had a far, far better window. Don't see how anyone could argue otherwise (unless you're Merson with his "double miss", comment).

 

[King of the Lane]

Trying to think which of the above would refuse to do business with us. Paratici dealt with Atalanta (Maehle) for Romero and Gollini, not Levy.

Brighton seem like a club that would hate us for no real reason but I don't think we ever signed someone from them.

Maybe Atletico over the Toby deal but they seemed happy enough to buy Trippier from us.

Leaves Boro and I can't think of much history there either.

Potentially Southampton as Im sure they were annoyed over Toby and maybe Wanyama and Hojbjerg.

 

[AmericanSpur]

All of that is true but they haven't left permanently so we have ultimately still got to find them a home come the summer so effectively we have kicked the can down the road. Can't see Lyon paying 65m for Ndombele.

At the least those players and their representatives recognized the need for them to leave for the sake of their future earnings. And if anything the Dele deal shows we may have a new found appetite for not squeezing a profit from every deal. So hopefully they do ok to good on loan and there’s a larger likelihood of a permanent transfer in the summer that works for all parties than there was now. That’s my optimistic hope.

 

[sausage]

Nice strawman. If we dont spend in the sumer, where do you think that money is going?

Not a strawman at all. Thought it was an effective deconstruction of the logic.

How exactly does it make sense to say it'd be "The worst in history" for a window where we've signed two young first team players?

For example, The last 2 summer windows were pretty decent on there own merits - there's nothing to gain but smugness by saying "yeah but Ndombele and GLC turned out shite" or "Bale didn't do much for half a season" etc, so I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish in your statement of "If we don't spend what we've saved in the summer" when this is nothing to do with the summer window! Each window should be judged within the confines of the window. Reserving retrospective judgement is meaningless.

What money exactly are you referring to anyway? Each club doesn't get "pocket money" to spent in the window, with those that don't spent it 'saving up, not does it make sense to suggest we haven't spent anything.

£26m or so was spent on Bentacur and Kulusevksi, and we recouped a nominal £1.2m or so Ndombele loan fee, nothing for Dele, and nothing for GLC.
In the summer, we've got the full fee for Romero, and potentially Gollini (hopefully not).

 

[SpartanSpur]

Potentially Southampton as Im sure they were annoyed over Toby and maybe Wanyama and Hojbjerg.

Maybe, they did well with KWP but I guess they blame us for tapping up Hojbjerg and Wanyama. Not sure if we'd go back for him although I'd definitely take him back.

It's all a bit moot anyway really, Aulas (Lyon) bitched about Levy but still sold Ndombele to us. Also Paratici heads up our negotiating so hopefully he could smooth over any lingering issues from Levy.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

At the least those players and their representatives recognized the need for them to leave for the sake of their future earnings. And if anything the Dele deal shows we may have a new found appetite for not squeezing a profit from every deal. So hopefully the do ok to good on loan and there’s a larger likelihood of a permanent transfer in the summer that works for all parties than there was now. That’s my optimistic hope.

It's certainly better them being on loan than still knocking around the training ground and not contributing to matchday squads but the notion that we are now free to get cracking in the Summer is not true, if the loan moves don't work out as expected we still have a big chunk of wages on the books and two 'high value' assets to shift.

 

[Freddie]

Not a strawman at all. Thought it was an effective deconstruction of the logic.

How exactly does it make sense to say it'd be "The worst in history" for a window where we've signed two young first team players?

For example, The last 2 summer windows were pretty decent on there own merits - there's nothing to gain but smugness by saying "yeah but Ndombele and GLC turned out shite" or "Bale didn't do much for half a season" etc, so I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish in your statement of "If we don't spend what we've saved in the summer" when this is nothing to do with the summer window! Each window should be judged within the confines of the window. Reserving retrospective judgement is meaningless.

What money exactly are you referring to anyway? Each club doesn't get "pocket money" to spent in the window, with those that don't spent it 'saving up, not does it make sense to suggest we haven't spent anything.

£26m or so was spent on Bentacur and Kulusevksi, and we recouped a nominal £1.2m or so Ndombele loan fee, nothing for Dele, and nothing for GLC.
In the summer, we've got the full fee for Romero, and potentially Gollini (hopefully not).

I think he means we've made space in the squad and that was only worth doing if you're going to fill it with better players later. A different analogy is selling all your clothes to pay for better ones. If you don't buy better ones you're just walking around naked. But this implies that you would still have worn your old Lo Celsos and you Ndombeles and I think Conte thought they smelled of moths.

 

[fredejohs]

Leicester have a deep squad, and I don't see how West Ham would beat us to players unless they got in the CL.

Not many top clubs need to do huge amounts, and there's also 20-30 amazing players either going on frees or in the last 12 months. If we're not overly fussy we shouldn't have many problems, aside from Arsenal and a couple of heavyweight European clubs

Leicester? Deep squad? They are about as fragile as we are. West Ham going for Raphinha and Darwin Nunez, Villa going for Countinho and Digne shows just how serious the top 8-9-10 is getting now. If we don't secure a top 4 we will be battling teams like them for the players we can get. Even Burnley getting Weghorst, who we were linked with, 12 months ago ...

I really hope you are right, and I'm not trying to be pessimistic – I'm just worried, that's all.

 

[wrd]

Not a strawman at all. Thought it was an effective deconstruction of the logic.

How exactly does it make sense to say it'd be "The worst in history" for a window where we've signed two young first team players?

For example, The last 2 summer windows were pretty decent on there own merits - there's nothing to gain but smugness by saying "yeah but Ndombele and GLC turned out shite" or "Bale didn't do much for half a season" etc, so I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish in your statement of "If we don't spend what we've saved in the summer" when this is nothing to do with the summer window! Each window should be judged within the confines of the window. Reserving retrospective judgement is meaningless.

What money exactly are you referring to anyway? Each club doesn't get "pocket money" to spent in the window, with those that don't spent it 'saving up, not does it make sense to suggest we haven't spent anything.

£26m or so was spent on Bentacur and Kulusevksi, and we recouped a nominal £1.2m or so Ndombele loan fee, nothing for Dele, and nothing for GLC.
In the summer, we've got the full fee for Romero, and potentially Gollini (hopefully not).

I agree with everything you're saying except reserving retrospective judgement is meaningless. There's lead and lag measures to things and you can judge actions based on the result you're aiming to obtain. If our aim is to make the top4 and use the January window as a chance to produce an action that helps us fulfil our goal then surely it's more meaningless to judge the window based on fan opinion on the signings over actually achieving that goal?

If we make top4 then the business has done what it was meant to, if we don't then it hasn't although another goal of the window might also include setting the foundations up for more prominent action in the summer.