The Levy success story...

[Mattspur]

It probably surprises you because it is largely a figment of your imagination.

That's a bit rude, but If that's what you believe then you couldn't have read many threads in the transfers section.

Or did you think I was talking about you?

 

[SpurSince57]

Im still laugh at someone comparing us to villa.
We are a club in one of the biggest cities in the world, we have been in the top twenty of richest clubs in the world , since before 2000.
We made 30 million more in revenue in 08/09 and 35 million the following season than villa.This gap had probably increased as villa park is average is nearly identical to spurs and we charge a lot more add on prize money.

Some people would laugh to see a pudding crawl, as my nan used to say.

So, you're easily amused. Bully for you. You seem to have forgotten that for all but a couple of seasons they finished ahead of us all through the nineties and up until Jol's first season, and again in 07-08 and 08-09. They've got a history at least as illustrious as ours, and you don't have to be my age to remember the last time they won the league. Like us, they're a historically big club that happened to be in the wrong place when the CL gravy train started up. So, all in all I'd say they were a very apt comparison.

As for the London thing, Dagenham and Redbridge are a London club. So are Brentford. So are Orient. There are 14 (or is it 15?) league clubs in London, but only three that count in the great scheme of things; before Abramovich made Chelsea his vanity project, there were only two. The point's an irrelevant nonsense.

Finance? In 2011-12 our turnover was £64m higher than theirs, although our gate receipts were effectively the same. We earned £12m more in TV income, but our commercial income was rather lower. Our wage bill was £20m more, but only 63% of our turnover; theirs was nearly 90%. Their debt was £122m, ours £70m. We're pissing all over them in the league and narrowing the gap on far wealthier clubs; they're pretty fortunate not to be in the Championship.

Maybe you'd prefer the club to be run the way Irving Scholar ran it.

Oh, and as for the fatuous 'only two minor trophies', maybe you should check out who's been winning the major trophies since ENIC took over; Pompey and the Wiggies aside, it's the clubs with shedloads more money than us.

2007-2009 excepted, since 2005 we've been enjoying the best run of league form since the 60s. The difference is that then we could match anyone for spending power. Now we can't. The best we can do is maximise the relatively limited resources we have, and by and large Levy's done a bloody good job of that.

 

[vegassd]

In the case of Arsenal this has been the reason they have had more success!

Arsenal finished above us by 1 point last season (plus goal difference).
Arsenal took (I think) 26 of the final 30 points available last season.

How is that down to "having more balls"? What did Arsenal do in the January transfer window that led to them taking 26 of 30 points? I'll can tell you what they did... Frimpong, Chamakh, Djourou out - Monreal in. So was signing a left back the key to their success because it was really ballsy?
No.

What about Summer 2012? Park, Almunia, Vela, Song, Bendtner and RVP out. Cazorla, Giroud and Podolski in. Is that ballsy? Is that really them laying their financial ass on the line and "speculating to accumulate".
No.

Arsenal have one of the greatest managers in the world and that is why they have had more success than us. It's nothing to do with being "ballsy" in the transfer market. I actually think there is a pretty good case to be made that Spurs has been far more bold over the past 5 years than Arsenal. But we have to be realistic about the fact that 10 years ago we were battling relegation until April and Arsenal were going unbeaten in the league. When you consider those starting positions I think we have done an amazing job to be just 1 point behind.

 

[Flashspur]

nice work Sloth, a good comparison

 

[sim0n]

Some people would laugh to see a pudding crawl, as my nan used to say.

So, you're easily amused. Bully for you. You seem to have forgotten that for all but a couple of seasons they finished ahead of us all through the nineties and up until Jol's first season, and again in 07-08 and 08-09. They've got a history at least as illustrious as ours, and you don't have to be my age to remember the last time they won the league. Like us, they're a historically big club that happened to be in the wrong place when the CL gravy train started up. So, all in all I'd say they were a very apt comparison.

Looking at the last 50 years, I would add Everton to that to that comparison as well. Perhaps a trifecta of the "best of the rest" category?

Oooops, just took a quick peek at the honors,.... Everton with more domestic championships than Spurs (and much more recent), but Spurs with more European success. Then with Villa, again more domestic championships, but Spurs better in Europe... All 3 have had FA cup success. Both Spurs and Villa have been relegated to lower divisions since 1960 (Villa actually went down to Division 3 at one point), but Everton have been in the top division continuously since 1954

So, on current form Spurs are heading up and are best of the rest. We all love our Spurs, but historically you might say we have work to do to overcome Everton,... much less the current "big 4"

This season is a true oportunity -- there is uncertainty at 3 of the big 4 clubs -- all Spurs need is a top striker now

P.S. fuq the bindippers could't be bothered to include tem - they have their own stats and version of reality

 

[SFCS]

Enjoyed the article, it's very well put together but I don't think it tells us anything we shouldn't already know. The one chart I didn't like was the money spent per points because it's easier to be more effecient the less you spend which skews it for teams like us and Villa - who weren't even particularly well run yet look quite good on that chart. Also it ignores prize money, points become far more valuable to a club when they can have a say in qualifying for the CL or winning the league. Arsenal might be spending a bit more than us per point gained but that difference is tiny compared to the benefit of regularly competing in the CL.

The reason I'm pleased with Levy and our current ownership is more simple than any of this though. Realistically you have to be run as a business in football unless you win the lottery and a billionaire who treats the club as a vanity project buys the club. There are many different ways that you can make money out of a football club and ENIC's desire to make their money by building up the club's value is preferable to one that's looking to take out dividends every year. That's the most important thing to me, if you're frustrated by Levy's frugality then imagine what it would be like with an owner taking out a portion of big transfers and prize fees too.

Levy's negotiations are probably the most contentious issue and whilst I think Levy's done a very good job with Spurs, this is where he has got it wrong at times. Ultimately everyone around us, bar Everton, can outspend us which means that we have to get more from our money and in general this is the case. The dispute is just when you draw the line between the need to get deals done as cheaply as possible and damaging our chances by signing players late or missing out on them altogether. There's not a line though, that would be simple if there was, every transfer involves gambling one way or another so inevitably there are examples of Levy's tactics benefiting us and ones where we lose out.

Levy/ENIC/Lewis have brought us stability and improvement and whilst there are those that want more spending and improvement, they lose sight of just how good we've got it. I get the feeling that if we spent more and became CL regulars(like they seem convinced we would) then by now they'd be demanding we spend more again to win the league and once we'd won that, that we spend even more and win the CL. Heaven forbid that at any stage simply spending more money doesn't necessarily equal success.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

Arsenal finished above us by 1 point last season (plus goal difference).
Arsenal took (I think) 26 of the final 30 points available last season.

How is that down to "having more balls"? What did Arsenal do in the January transfer window that led to them taking 26 of 30 points? I'll can tell you what they did... Frimpong, Chamakh, Djourou out - Monreal in. So was signing a left back the key to their success because it was really ballsy?
No.

What about Summer 2012? Park, Almunia, Vela, Song, Bendtner and RVP out. Cazorla, Giroud and Podolski in. Is that ballsy? Is that really them laying their financial ass on the line and "speculating to accumulate".
No.

Arsenal have one of the greatest managers in the world and that is why they have had more success than us. It's nothing to do with being "ballsy" in the transfer market. I actually think there is a pretty good case to be made that Spurs has been far more bold over the past 5 years than Arsenal. But we have to be realistic about the fact that 10 years ago we were battling relegation until April and Arsenal were going unbeaten in the league. When you consider those starting positions I think we have done an amazing job to be just 1 point behind.

They identified the left back spot as a weakness and spent a large sum on a Spain international! The fixed it!

We needed a striker but spent 2m on a midfielder that realistically won't show his true potential straight away due to his youth! We didn't fix anything!

 

[vegassd]

They identified the left back spot as a weakness and spent a large sum on a Spain international! The fixed it!

We needed a striker but spent 2m on a midfielder that realistically won't show his true potential straight away due to his youth! We didn't fix anything!

We didn't actually need a striker in January. Adebayor and Defoe were only just beginning their slumps and you don't buy a replacement player just because a striker hasn't scored for 2 weeks.

Many Spurs fans would also argue that what our team was lacking in January was the creative spark that had previously come from Modric and VDV.

If you believe that Nacho Monreal was the reason that Arsenal got 26 of 30 points then I guess we will never agree.

 

[Chris Flynn]

We won two minor trophies and received a nice letter from rivaldo Get ut right..
I wonder if Benteke will send us one now.
Levy taken us to where we should be, thanks to Liverpool decline in the league.
I cant wait until the last day of the window to sign Wellbeck.

I'd quite like Wellbeck to be honest!

 

[Wardy]

As a data analyst by trade, this post has absolutely made my day. Excellent work!

same here mate, love this stuff

 

[TH1239]

I'm curious Sloth: What do you make of the fact that we have engaged in deficit spending thus far to the tune of 23 million pounds, and appear prepared to splash out at least another 22 million pounds on Soldado? I've seen you preach the Dortmund model of finding cheaper talent, and I've generally perceived you to be a fiscal conservative when it came to matters of club spending to break-through into the top 4; so I'm very interested to see whether you are fully onboard with the summer spending we are doing, with virtually no off-setting player sales?

It certainly appears that Levy is doing what many of us have advocated for in regards to "pushing the boat out" in an effort to maximize our current squad and push for a regular Champions League place. Are you against this?

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Many truths

Complete common sense as far as I can see but maybe it will put a few of the boo boys at ease this season.

Genuinely think that a united front in the 'terraces' could be just as valuable as multi-million signings.

We have our best squad (plus another goal scorer) in many, many years.

 

[vegassd]

I'm curious Sloth: What do you make of the fact that we have engaged in deficit spending thus far to the tune of 23 million pounds, and appear prepared to splash out at least another 22 million pounds on Soldado?

I know I'm not sloth, but I would say that as an organisation we do have revenues, so spending should always be viewed against turnover.

Further, transfer fees are spread over the duration of a players contract. So Paulinho might only be accounted as about £3.5m/year (if it's a 5 year deal). Any deals for Chadli and Soldado/other will be accounted for in the same way. If the TV revenue boost is enough to cover that then I suppose that financially speaking we aren't looking at losses due to transfers.

FFP also allows a degree of loss as long as it can be proved that break even is attainable. Those losses are judged over 3 year periods, so a loss in one particular season can be offset by a profit in a subsequent season. We currently have a rather large financial ace up our sleeves (Bale) so a degree of player trading loss this season might be deemed as acceptable because we have a get out of jail free card if needed.

 

[sloth]

I'm curious Sloth: What do you make of the fact that we have engaged in deficit spending thus far to the tune of 23 million pounds, and appear prepared to splash out at least another 22 million pounds on Soldado? I've seen you preach the Dortmund model of finding cheaper talent, and I've generally perceived you to be a fiscal conservative when it came to matters of club spending to break-through into the top 4; so I'm very interested to see whether you are fully onboard with the summer spending we are doing, with virtually no off-setting player sales?

It certainly appears that Levy is doing what many of us have advocated for in regards to "pushing the boat out" in an effort to maximize our current squad and push for a regular Champions League place. Are you against this?

The new domestic and overseas' TV deals look to be in the region of £5bn - £6bn nearly double the current deal meaning we'll be taking circa £90m next year for just being the PL. That's the equivalent of the money you got for qualifying for getting out of the CL group stages, with the big difference that barring relegation it's pretty much guaranteed*. That means that we've now got the equivalent of permanent CL revenues, and while it's true that other English clubs also receive a boost, we're competing for players on the international market and few other clubs will have received an equivalent boost. People argued that we should spend more if we qualified for CL, when in effect, financially speaking, we just have.

In terms of your analogy with fiscal policy I think you've misunderstood my stance, I simply believe that to get ahead, whoever you are you need to identify value.

In terms of the rumoured Soldado signing, it's a strange one as on the face of it it doesn't fit the policy, clearly the club will think at 30m Euro he is at value, so I guess I'll have to spend the next little while trying to work out their rationale (possibly it won't become clear for a window or two!). On a personal level I'm thrilled at the prospect

I think there will plenty of player sales to off-set some of the spend.

One final thing, and this is pure speculation, but I think we're maybe taking a calculated risk by spending some of the cash anticipated from the sale of Gareth Bale next season, this season, this to avoid paying the rich club premium were we to be awash with the Bale money.

* The big thing about CL was that when forward planning you always had to calculate the probability of future CL revenue and budget accordingly, or else risk doing a "Leeds".

 

[AllSeeingEye]

True that we already knew most of this but thanks for taking the time to illustrate. The stats are fairly interesting. Let's hope trends continue. This year seems to be one of those make or break years. I hope the trend of dropping off after two successive point rises in diagram two is not repeated though.....

 

[myhartlane]

Great work by Levy and ENIC, but I think we also have to give Sugar credit for saving us from liquidation.

 

[myhartlane]

Im still laugh at someone comparing us to villa.
We are a club in one of the biggest cities in the world, we have been in the top twenty of richest clubs in the world , since before 2000.
We made 30 million more in revenue in 08/09 and 35 million the following season than villa.This gap had probably increased as villa park is average is nearly identical to spurs and we charge a lot more add on prize money.

You say that but pre-Premier League era, like us, Villa had a legitimate claim to be a 'big club'. At the time they had won more than Chelsea and Man City combined including the European Cup.

 

[Harry_Snatch]

We didn't actually need a striker in January. Adebayor and Defoe were only just beginning their slumps and you don't buy a replacement player just because a striker hasn't scored for 2 weeks.

Many Spurs fans would also argue that what our team was lacking in January was the creative spark that had previously come from Modric and VDV.

If you believe that Nacho Monreal was the reason that Arsenal got 26 of 30 points then I guess we will never agree.

We had 2 strikers in a squad supposedly competing fora champions league place and we isn't need a striker? Ade had been injured or unfit or in a slump since he joined after pre season!


Please!,,??

 

[SpurSince57]

Great work by Levy and ENIC, but I think we also have to give Sugar credit for saving us from liquidation.

I think Sugar over-egged that particular pudding just a little, but you can't really blame him. He certainly put us back on a solid financial footing after Scholar's bungling, and what he almost certainly saved us from was Robert Maxwell.