The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Cambridge Spur]

Good full-backs make up for lack of pace with defensive nous, which Davies has. Also see Corluka vs. Aston Villa years ago when Jol had intially gone with Zokora at right-back to deal with the pace of Young and/or Agbonlahor.
We did replace Walker but the replacement(s) was/were a downgrade (which was the only possibility since Walker is the best RB in the country).
I agree on Rose and I think his decline mght be due to the fact that we tried to sell him to fucking Watford in the summer.


I reckon Jan would stay here for the rest of his career if given the opportunity. I've no idea why Poche decided to pick a fight with him at the start of the season.

I couldn’t agree more. Look at the best defenders in the world, past and present, Ramos, Chiellini, Terry, Alderweireld, etc. None are particularly blessed with pace but it’s there ability to read the game which makes them so good. Pace is all well and good but it’s not what defines a player.

 

[jacko73]

But wouldn't you try and do things differently if things were so clearly heading in the wrong direction and for such a long period of time instead of being completely stubborn and defensive about it? What Poch is now doing doesn't last long in the real world either - he'd probably been sacked long ago in my field.

I think the fact he hasn't is because Levy hasn't found the replacement yet.

In your field has your boss grown your turnover 160% and then had a down turn in numbers whilst saying that that there was going to be a downturn in performance. By the way none of the other 4 of the big 5 have even gown over 50% in that same time period. only Liverpool have grown over 110 % in that same time period. Levy will not pull the trigger unless we have a relegation scrap and that is not happening because we have already made 3 signings for the new project. But as yet he has not been able to use these guys.

By the way does anyone remember the game when you thought the players finally got what poch wanted from all of our players, i mean a real team performance as I can it was palace at home September 2015 1 year and 3 months after he joined. With that in mind you can see that we needed to buy the summer we bought no one.

By the way those numbers above do not show you our newly signed commercial deals that reflect our new standing (last year obviously) as champions league regulars. Levy always looks at the long term and tried to grow at the same time "slow and steady wins the race", would it be possible that he shares some responsibility as his focus was on the new ground. The year we signed no one was the mistake as we had no succession planning for Dembele. Wanyama, Jan, Toby and also knowing what was happening with Eriksen as we signed everyone else up, you cant tell me we did not know what was happening with him.

 

[jacko73]

This isn’t about one game

It’s about a 10 month decline during which we’ve played like relegation candidates for too many games and evidently gone backwards

I am sorry but we know the reason for last years decline and we were all talking about it last year, it was the world cup. So the decline in performance is this season, would it also be fair that he does not want the new guys to play v liverpool as he does not want them to be on the end of a hammering. a bit of protection whilst he is getting them poch fit, we all know what the press are like, could he be protecting them.

 

[dudu]

Why won’t people listen??? It’s all Mabbutt’s fault, I tells ya! It’s one big conspiracy aimed at making him Lord of Bristol!!!

He keeps doing that thing with his knee and every week some greenhorn who’s only been supporting the club for 20 minutes (when we all know that the most important thing about being a Spurs fan is to have the ‘I lived through 90s Spurs’ Blue Peter badge) says give him more time!

Why do fans keep changing their minds on Mabbsy? We all know that the power to change club personnel rests with us here on SC, so why won’t people stop giving Mabbsy time and just pull the trigger?

It’s all one big put-up job. We’ve actually been playing really well and the results aren’t actually real. In fact, we’ve won every away game since January, including the CL final and Mabbutt has just been using the trophy to prop up his TV stand.

God, it’s so SINPLE!!!!

I blame him for most things that have happened to me since that time I played 5 a side against him and spent the whole night trying to nutmeg him. I never emotionally recovered from failing.

 

[rez9000]

I blame him for most things that have happened to me since that time I played 5 a side against him and spent the whole night trying to nutmeg him. I never emotionally recovered from failing.

He’s an evil genius, that Mabbutt!

 

[rez9000]

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[dudu]

Granted, I was rather drunk (it's my latest coping mechanism, to watch through a booze fuelled fug) but I didn't think Aurier was that bad. He seems to be mainly getting lambasted because Mane won a very clever penalty, in my opinion.
He offered something going forward when he got the chance but with Eriksen in front of him, he had absolutely no protection.
Rose, on the other side, was running around like a headless chicken on speed but at least had Son, and sometimes Alli, offering some kind of protection.

I realise that Serge is always capable of a massive brain-fart but considering he was so isolated on Sunday, I think some of the shit being hurled at him is a little harsh.

Still cannot understand why Davies didn't play on the left. He doesn't have the pace of Rose but he can actually defend very well, negating that shortfall.
He also has a decent delivery on him.

Rose didn't have as much protection from Son as you're making out. Neville made a point of calling him out for it for about 15 mins of the first half.

 

[Primativ]

Honestly is it any surprise we struggle when in the most important area of the pitch Poch continually picks Winks to screen the defence?

Sissoko is limited enough even next to a proper talent like NDombele but to then have two limited players in there is just crazy.

Only Norwich have conceded more shots than us this season. That is a huge red flag that our CM is utter shit and not working properly.

I know there are many factors for our demise but for me, moving from Dembele and peak Wanyama or in form Dier to a midfield of Winks has been a key issue. Look at when our results and performances turned so bad, around time Dembele was passed it and left and was injured etc We’ve essentially promoted an academy kid to a key position in the centre of midfield. Since Winks has been promoted above his station from a squad option to a first teamer we’ve been utterly hopeless in CM. Despite putting in a couple
of good performances in the CL I dont think I’ve seen him put in a run of top games in the PL.

Until Poch realises CM isn’t working and changes it, we will keep losing. Nowhere else has the first 11 changed really so much apart from CM. Poch has promoted a player who just isn’t good enough into a key position and we just look powder puff when we used to dominate teams in the centre.

Poch’s huge hard on for a player who just isn’t good enough has been a big cause of our problems. Poch is extremely blinkered and doesn’t see the problem or a solution. I’d be gobsmacked if a new manager came in and relied on Winks.

 

[walton]

There's not, at all.

There is, and i will. Name your venue. You'll need to cover expenses though.

 

[Hakkz]

In what way? Are you suggesting this fact is incovenient to your "ITS ALL POCHETTINO'S FAULT!" argument? I suppose it is yes.

It's convenient because it seems like everything good that has happened is because Poch is a genius working with his hands tied behind his back and then when it goes to shit it's suddenly everyone else's fault because Poch wasn't really in charge.

 

[dimiSpur]

It's convenient because it seems like everything good that has happened is because Poch is a genius working with his hands tied behind his back and then when it goes to shit it's suddenly everyone else's fault because Poch wasn't really in charge.

No. There is a long list of problems that can be attributed to Poch.

My point is that the above doesn't mean those who want him out due to those errors, that can just willy-nilly attribute everything wrong to him. Transfers being one of them.

 

[jacko73]

Poch is the one picking players who have no future here. He picked a team with a future here and won 5-0. What happened next game in an absolutely massive match? Drops them all for ones with no future, including one who has not shut his mouth about wanting to leave and has not given 100% for almost a whole year. Just looking at Poch’s team selections over the course of this season, its clear to me he doesn’t want to be the one to build a new team. His pressers have gone from positive in past years to cryptic last half season, to now being increasingly negative. I just dont think he has the fire anymore to manage, really. I think he needs a break from the game for a bit, in all honesty.

The players are performing very poorly, yes. But it’s still a top 3 side on paper and should be doing MUCH better than 10th 3 months into the season. I’d like to get rid of half these players now but we cant and i honestly dont back Levy to replace them after the shit we’ve seen in recent years that the clubs PR machine has managed to spin into being a Poch decision. So our only option is to try to salvage this shower of shit and hire a new manager.

Why is it accepted here on this forum that they do not want to be here. I am not just calling you out on this, but your message was the one i read last. They only went out for a meal last week, so has some fresh info come out from that meal? How do we know what was said at that dinner or after that. What if there were a few things said that made poch trust them, he does not have such a big squad that he can guarantee that he will not need them at some point between now and the end of the season. if he ostracises them now, how will he get them to perform later in the season. also, if he does ostracise then they could become a cancer in the club and damage the players that we will want as the new project. This is a place of work for them there is a human element, that makes it just like our own place of work.

 

[dudu]

Why is it accepted here on this forum that they do not want to be here. I am not just calling you out on this, but your message was the one i read last. They only went out for a meal last week, so has some fresh info come out from that meal? How do we know what was said at that dinner or after that. What if there were a few things said that made poch trust them, he does not have such a big squad that he can guarantee that he will not need them at some point between now and the end of the season. if he ostracises them now, how will he get them to perform later in the season. also, if he does ostracise then they could become a cancer in the club and damage the players that we will want as the new project. This is a place of work for them there is a human element, that makes it just like our own place of work.

I was thinking before the game and still do now that he gave the nod to some players who wanted redemption for the final. Clearly not the right move in hindsight but bar Eriksen, I can see the thought process in our lineup.

It's not like we haven't played to counter teams like Liverpool before.

 

[McFlash]

Rose didn't have as much protection from Son as you're making out. Neville made a point of calling him out for it for about 15 mins of the first half.

Oh yeah, I didn't intend to imply that Son was a wall but he was far better than Eriksen, and Dele tended to help out on that side too.
But yes, both of our full backs were far too exposed.

 

[jacko73]

I know i am defending poch in this thread, but i do not think he is perfect and he has a few areas that I believe he has to win me over and 1 is a big one. Transfers. also that run up to the final pissed me off were he went off piste from his normal all about the team. But maybe that was his way of telling us that he had already said to DL that this team needed changing and he was not listening as he thinks the team needed staying together. we all found out in those rants that 5 first team players wanted out. He wanted that out there for us the fans to know why he was transferring them in the summer.

I think most of this forum would rate Klopp highly, well did he not have the same problem at Dortmund, i would draw some parallels with that time. I am only fighting as i think Poch is worth fighting for and if you look at my posting record i have probably just doubled my posting record in this thread this morning and i have been here years. the only other time I posted a bit was I did not want LVG and I was proven right on that occasion. I honestly came in here and read 2 threads and felt like the lunatics were running the asylum, but that a lot of posters that i think are level headed had joined in.

We are not at the top table yet we are close financially right now. But when did we ever in poch's reign compete with the other 5? our transfer record was until this season 2 x 30 million players who were both peripheral players. Even Arsenal have taken a desperate shot to try and get back above us by buying 2 x 60 million and 1 x 70 million players all whilst they were not in the champions league. that was there last throw of the dice and we can sink them if we get back above them this year so they miss out. I also remind you that Auba is over 30 so his pace will wane soon whilst their commercial deals will be less if we keep them out.

So please spurs community don't go all AFTV and lets stick together they have all earned our respect over 5 years don't let 3 months ruin all that for you and trust them. Also look at the quality of Ndombele, if that is our future then we have a lot to look forward to.

 

[IamSpurtacus]

I am sorry but we know the reason for last years decline and we were all talking about it last year, it was the world cup. So the decline in performance is this season, would it also be fair that he does not want the new guys to play v liverpool as he does not want them to be on the end of a hammering. a bit of protection whilst he is getting them poch fit, we all know what the press are like, could he be protecting them.

The WC only explains so much...and you can't dismiss odd team selections and formations because of that.

Agree he may have wanted to protect the new signings from being thrown in during such a big game, but that doesn't explain how Eriksen and Dele stayed on for all intents and purposes to the bitter end - GCL could have come on after an hour for CE, and if he had no impact no one would have batted an eye because he couldn't have been worse than CE

Those decisions, and similar tactical issues and decisions, have been plaguing this team way beyond this season. I actually think the lack of signing and fatigue papered over a decline that is being witnessed in full this season

I honestly think the the WC fatigue, lack of signings combined with the deflation of the (lack of stadium) move has impacted Poch irreparably

He's an emotional guy, by his own admission, and it's entirely human that when you fail to attain a goal (the stadium, the CL final) the psychological impact can be hard, if not impossible, to overcome if it's big enough. He's a human - we all react differently to failure, and i think we're seeing the fall out from that

Those factors have impacted his demeanour, his attitude to the squad and it's translated to the team's performance.

I fear he's too far gone to arrest the decline.

 

[DFF]

Anyone able to post this?

Michael Cox: Pochettino’s perplexing approach left Spurs vulnerable to Liverpool’s biggest threat

Nullifying Liverpool’s full-backs is vital to any hopes of beating them yet Spurs gave them space to switch play and pass at will...

theathletic.com

I’ll take payment in avocados and/or fedoras.

Spoiler

You could be forgiven for thinking that someone had sabotaged the scouting report handed to Mauricio Pochettino.

The common theme of big matches involving Liverpool this season has been simple – nullifying the full-backs is vital.

Unai Emery was brave — or foolish — when travelling to Anfield, using a midfield diamond with two strikers. Although Arsenal found some joy on the break, Trent Alexander-Arnold and Andy Robertson were allowed too much space, which helped Liverpool pile on the pressure, and Alexander-Arnold was crucial in two of Liverpool’s three goals.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer used a different approach last weekend, playing a 3-5-2 and seeking to press Liverpool’s full-backs with Manchester United’s wing-backs, while keeping strikers in the channels to dissuade them from advancing. It was the first time Liverpool had been denied all three points in the Premier League this season.

Pochettino’s approach on Sunday, then, was somewhat curious. Tottenham used a 4-3-3 system, which usually looks like 4-5-1 without the ball. But Pochettino’s interpretation involved Christian Eriksen and Son Heung-min, the two wide players (at least on paper) tucking inside very narrow, often in front of Spurs’ central midfielders in more of a 4-3-2-1-ish formation. The result was inevitable: Liverpool constantly switched play between their two full-backs.

This has been an obvious part of Liverpool’s approach play over the last year, so it shouldn’t have come as a surprise to Tottenham. The most obvious example came in Liverpool’s 2-1 defeat by Manchester City in January when, in the build-up to Roberto Firmino’s goal, Alexander-Arnold switched play to Robertson twice in the same move, first with his right foot…

…and then with his left…

…in the build-up to a brilliantly-worked goal.

That’s the interesting thing about Liverpool’s big switches of play. Usually this move is designed to simply tire the opposition, working them from side to side and waiting for gaps to appear to play through. But for Liverpool, it’s often a direct route to goal.

One example came earlier in the season in the win away at Southampton on August 17. This is a typical situation — Alexander-Arnold receiving possession on the right, and immediately looking across to the opposite flank.

The weight of Alexander-Arnold’s passes is almost always perfect, and on this occasion it allowed Robertson to head the ball first-time into the path of Sadio Mane…

…who responded with a superb backheel for Robertson’s run, and the left-back forced a decent save from Angus Gunn.

That’s what’s so dangerous about Liverpool – their switches of play are combined with a sense of purpose and directness. They used a similar tactic in the 2-0 win over Tottenham in the Champions League final.

So Tottenham should have been prepared. But, it seems they weren’t.

Here’s an early example of the problem on Sunday. Alexander-Arnold receives the ball in his usual right-back zone, and Christian Eriksen is occupying a narrow position more typical of a right-sided forward.



This leaves Robertson unmarked. Alexander-Arnold finds him with a huge booming pass, not merely switching the play but also encouraging Robertson 20 yards up the pitch.

Spurs’ strategy for dealing with this type of pass was unusual. Rather than Eriksen tracking back with Robertson, Pochettino asked Moussa Sissoko, playing to the right of the midfield trio, to push out wide and close down Liverpool’s left-back. Eriksen, in turn, would then drop back and cover the space vacated by Sissoko, watching the run of Georginio Wijnaldum.

That wasn’t an isolated incident. After half an hour, the same thing – Alexander-Arnold on the right flank, Eriksen seemingly in a position to close down Virgil van Dijk rather than Robertson, and a long whipped pass to the opposite flank.

Again, it’s Sissoko coming out towards Robertson and Eriksen dropping in.

As the first half continued, this approach started to tire Spurs. Here’s an almost identical situation, albeit this time Eriksen and Sissoko are much further across the pitch, opening up more room for Robertson. Like in the first example, Alexander-Arnold cuts across the ball, swerving it further up the pitch into more space.

Sissoko and Eriksen repeat the pattern – Sissoko sprints out, Eriksen drops in.

But it’s starting to take its toll – Sissoko ends up clumsily fouling Robertson, giving Liverpool the opportunity to whip the ball into the box.

By the end of the first half, it seemed Spurs had changed their plan. Here, again, is Alexander-Arnold hitting a big switch of play to Robertson.

This time, though, it’s Eriksen who ends up as the closest opponent, with Sissoko remaining in the centre of the pitch.

Exposing themselves to the switch of play caused Spurs more problems after half-time. Here’s the usual midfield situation – three central players flat across the pitch, Eriksen and Son more advanced and more central than you’d expect, and Alexander-Arnold switching the play to Robertson.

And, while Eriksen closed down Robertson, he chips a cross to the far post, where Roberto Firmino forces a save from Paulo Gazzaniga.



And the reverse happened, too — albeit less frequently. Alexander-Arnold became more of a crossing threat in the second half, sometimes from Robertson hitting long diagonals. It’s worth highlighting how close together Spurs’ midfield trio are in this example.

Alexander-Arnold started crossing more, from his usual deep positions. This one was cleared by Davinson Sanchez, but Liverpool’s right-back was their main creative outlet.

One of Alexander-Arnold’s long diagonals actually resulted in Liverpool’s winner – his big booming ball to the left flank for Mane eventually resulted in him being tripped by Serge Aurier, and Mohamed Salah converted from the spot.

But it was those full-back to full-back switches that formed the main part of Liverpool’s approach. Some opponents are tracking Alexander-Arnold and Robertson closely but, against sides that leave space on the flanks, Liverpool’s full-backs switch play with a frequency perhaps not witnessed since Cafu and Roberto Carlos for Brazil. The 1-0 victory away at Sheffield United on September 28 was another example, with Liverpool playing one of those passes inside the first two minutes.



Another interesting element from that game – and a semi-regular part of Liverpool’s play – is that the full-backs often end up on opposite flanks after set-pieces. This generally happens after Alexander-Arnold has trotted across to take a corner from the left. Against Sheffield United, this happened for a couple of minutes and featured the full-backs on the ‘wrong’ sides, but still knocking long passes between each other, as seen in this passing move.





But it’s nevertheless still almost unprecedented to witness it happening with the frequency of Sunday’s game. According to Opta’s data, they exchanged 11 passes, which is the fifth-highest combination between two full-backs in any Premier League game since the start of last season.

The four matches with more full-back to full-back switches, meanwhile, are all down to Manchester City, and matches where Pep Guardiola has deployed two of Kyle Walker, Danilo, Fabian Delph and Olaksandr Zinchenko as narrow ‘half-backs’, playing in central midfield in possession.

For example, at home to Brighton last season, Walker and Zinchenko found one another 17 times, but the graphic of their passing shows that only one of these was a genuine switch of play between the flanks.

Look at Alexander-Arnold and Robertson’s combinations and, aside from a couple at set-pieces, they are much longer passes. It’s fair to say, then, that switching the play with this regularity is almost unheard of.

And this is one of the most difficult things about playing Liverpool. It’s hardly unusual for teams to switch play against narrow opposition, but this is generally conducted more incrementally, via at least one central midfielder. It’s arguable that this can actually be more difficult to defend against, because it means having to adjust positioning multiple times within a short space of time. Huge lobbed passes between flanks are sometimes ineffective, as they give the opposition time to shift across the pitch.

But the precision and speed of Liverpool’s switches, particularly those from Alexander-Arnold, are a different proposition entirely. Against some teams, you can protect the midfield, encourage balls out to the full-backs and be confident you won’t get hurt.

Against Liverpool it’s the opposite, which makes Pochettino’s approach somewhat perplexing. Granted, it was only a narrow defeat — but it was nevertheless a very narrow formation.

 

[dace]

Having seen our last season at WHL and the way we played, I am mortified by what is going on at our club.
Poch seemingly has lost his way or wants(wanted) to leave and did/could not, who really knows. Does that even make sense lol !

One big problem I see with the supposed rebuild is it will take time, something we do not have if we wish to keep Kane and a couple of others including the new boys.
The rebuild for Poch may well mean getting in new players but as he has proved and I believe said again this week, they need 18 months to get up to speed. So are we to accept another two years of poor football?
I am in the camp that wants Spurs to succeed (we all are), if Poch can change and do this then he has my support, if however he cannot and continues the strange comments and tactics then for me I want a new man at the helm, who ? No idea !

 

[jacko73]

The WC only explains so much...and you can't dismiss odd team selections and formations because of that.

Agree he may have wanted to protect the new signings from being thrown in during such a big game, but that doesn't explain how Eriksen and Dele stayed on for all intents and purposes to the bitter end - GCL could have come on after an hour for CE, and if he had no impact no one would have batted an eye because he couldn't have been worse than CE

Those decisions, and similar tactical issues and decisions, have been plaguing this team way beyond this season. I actually think the lack of signing and fatigue papered over a decline that is being witnessed in full this season

I honestly think the the WC fatigue, lack of signings combined with the deflation of the (lack of stadium) move has impacted Poch irreparably

He's an emotional guy, by his own admission, and it's entirely human that when you fail to attain a goal (the stadium, the CL final) the psychological impact can be hard, if not impossible, to overcome if it's big enough. He's a human - we all react differently to failure, and i think we're seeing the fall out from that

Those factors have impacted his demeanour, his attitude to the squad and it's translated to the team's performance.

I fear he's too far gone to arrest the decline.

But he has always made strange decisions with subs and starting lineups - so until a top four manager signs up to SC and tells us he's shit and calls him out on it. so excuse me if i don't listen to some brilliant football mangers (pc gamers) i am sure, but I will always back the best football manger of spurs in my lifetime and i am nearly 50 for a longer period than 3 months. He has earned my loyalty for longer than that.

You raised another thing he must prove to me that he learns how to get our team over the line as i was fucked off with a lot of his decisions in semi's and finals. but he is only young. As I said earlier klopp and him have a similar problems (Klopp had this stage in his Dortmund tenure) and what you guys are saying is that we too would make the same decision as Dortmund did. well look how that turned out.

You talk about demeanor - let me ask you if you were Poch and you warned that this would happen and it did would you be pissed off? on top of this he has to face mounting pressure from press and fans. If the fans in the stadium turn, i think he will walk. read his book he is an emotional guy and he is dealing with this knowing it was going to happen.

 

[DJS]

Oh come on, he was being facetious then. Another interview where he was being unhelpful and contradictory.

He has too much control over transfers if you ask me. He seems better when just given a load of players and is asked to coach them. It's when he's given the reigns on bringing players in we've struggled. We've been told 2 summers ago he had to bare a fair amount of blame for us not bringing anyone in.

Yep.

Our transfer dealings took a massive dive when Poch role was changed to manager.

And re: other posts Vertonghendecline and Aurier being iffy, why on earth didn’t Poch address that in the summer?

We're supposed to have been happy to let Aurier go with Foyth and KWP felt to be good options, so why isn’t Poch using them rather than Aurier who wanted out? Otherwise we should have bought a new right back.

Left back I can only presume Sessegnon is seen as answer as seems odd how we treated Rose and yet didn’t replace him.

And in training Poch didn’t seem to notice that Vertonghen was declining and losing pace? For me, the great managers know when to tweak a side and Poch should have been scouting and looking for a left-sided centre back with a view to easing Vertonghen out.

To me Poch just comes across as sloppy and not knowing what he is doing at the moment; he has far more knowledge of football than likes of me so how can he not see what is wrong with the squad and still keep making the same stupid selections and not know how to use substitutes properly??