The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Primativ]

It doesn't sound right to me when you get a manager belittling the domestic cups. I don't recall seeing other managers of top 4 rivals doing the same.

Is top 4 our everything? We will probably watch OGS win the FA Cup this season and get top 4, even possibly at our expense?

Under Poch we just don't seem to be able to take that last step. I disagree with him hugely, winning a cup and finishing top 4 should be possible with the team and squad we have. The fact we haven't is a mentality / tactical thing under his management more than anything. If we didn't start so poorly first half at Chelsea we'd be in the final. There are countless examples of where his tactical failings or a lack of mentality have contributed to our cup exits, so I don't see why if those things were improved upon, we couldn't finish top 4 and win a cup.

Poch is not beyond criticism and fault. We shouldn't turn a blind eye to his failings in cups because he gets CL. I mean afterall, what is the point of CL? We won't win it under Poch either and it doesn't attract better players in our case at least

 

[worcestersauce]

The question for me is not necessarily do we the fans consider trophies important, but do the players?

Both our current top players that we want to keep and players that we are looking to recruit?

Yes money as always is key, but players do want medals to look back on at the end of their career.

They do but they also have a level of realism that means they take into account other factors. Ultimately at some point they quite probably will consider leaving to join a club that may guarantee them a medal but I think if they are happy and believe that the improvements they are making year on year will lead to trophies then they will keep the faith, I guess when they lose faith in that they will make the decision to leave.
I look at Edin Hazard as an example, he may or may not want to leave Chelsea in the summer yet he is paid an enormous amount of money, he won an FA cup with them last year and may win another cup this year which by the trophy count thinking should make it a done deal that he stays, however, he also missed out on CL last season and almost certainly will do so again this season so I wonder which of those things will make his decision for him.

 

[shelfboy68]

Cups for kids.
Champions league for grown ups.
I have never been so happy with spurs and incidentaly do you think that if Alderwield ; Kane ; Son; Ali ; Winks ; Sissoko: Rose ; Aurier ; had played we might have won this match .
My fear is that the fans that feel entitled to win cups will drive Poch out with their bitterness.
There are two cups and the league to win silverware there is a chance that City will win them all and with that scenario where does that leave the other 91 clubs ? the only club that seems to be singled out for not winning a shiny thing is spurs.
This is a media led vendetta by most of the media and it suits their narrative to single out spurs . Myself for one have enough sense to ignore the media especially sky ; BT ; BBC ; ITV ; so called pundits who apart from A few are failed in management and some failed dismally so why should I take note of there views.
I also notice that Klopp has not won anything and guess what not a word of complaint by the pundits.
To sum up the media in general for whatever reason has not a good word to say about spurs which fits the anti spurs agenda.
I will say That Holt and Savage and Hodgson had some sensible views on spurs but the anti spurs clamour gathers pace .
Will Poch have the guts and the Character to ignore the naysayers I think he is a man of "true grit" and will come thru all this media mayhem and lead us to success .
By the way most of the people saying we "must win a Cup" are the younger fans and as the saying goes they must "get your knees brown"before comment.

If you think that fan's demand for trophies will drive poch out then he most definitely will not want a job at either Madrid or Utd where their insatiable desire to win things means manager's don't last long unless they deliver.
Overall I think the fan's of this club have been generally very good and patient all things considering but when we keep getting close and falling questions do need to be asked.

 

[spids]

It doesn't sound right to me when you get a manager belittling the domestic cups. I don't recall seeing other managers of top 4 rivals doing the same.

Is top 4 our everything? We will probably watch OGS win the FA Cup this season and get top 4, even possibly at our expense?

Under Poch we just don't seem to be able to take that last step. I disagree with him hugely, winning a cup and finishing top 4 should be possible with the team and squad we have. The fact we haven't is a mentality / tactical thing under his management more than anything. If we didn't start so poorly first half at Chelsea we'd be in the final. There are countless examples of where his tactical failings or a lack of mentality have contributed to our cup exits, so I don't see why if those things were improved upon, we couldn't finish top 4 and win a cup.

Poch is not beyond criticism and fault. We shouldn't turn a blind eye to his failings in cups because he gets CL. I mean afterall, what is the point of CL? We won't win it under Poch either and it doesn't attract better players in our case at least

Klopp was quite happy to quietly go out of the domestic cups early and is focussed on the league and the CL in exactly the same way Poch is. Arsenal and Chelsea don't have the CL to worry about, and Arsenal did worse than us in the domestic cups. And quite frankly, if we hadn't had an extraordinary injury crisis I think we'd be in the final of the league cup and in the 5th round of the FA cup, as well as the last 16 of the CL and 3rd in the EPL.

 

[adamsky]

Winning a cup would be great but only if it came with top 4. That is the reality. We needed a new stadium and other than moving into a shit hole like the Olympic Stadium this was our only option. Be thankful that we are as good as we are, had we done this at any other time during the PL era, having no money and no home ground, we most likely would have been relegated. Jesus, imagine Christian Gross in charge of this time

 

[FinnYid]

It doesn't sound right to me when you get a manager belittling the domestic cups. I don't recall seeing other managers of top 4 rivals doing the same.

Is top 4 our everything? We will probably watch OGS win the FA Cup this season and get top 4, even possibly at our expense?

Under Poch we just don't seem to be able to take that last step. I disagree with him hugely, winning a cup and finishing top 4 should be possible with the team and squad we have. The fact we haven't is a mentality / tactical thing under his management more than anything. If we didn't start so poorly first half at Chelsea we'd be in the final. There are countless examples of where his tactical failings or a lack of mentality have contributed to our cup exits, so I don't see why if those things were improved upon, we couldn't finish top 4 and win a cup.

Poch is not beyond criticism and fault. We shouldn't turn a blind eye to his failings in cups because he gets CL. I mean afterall, what is the point of CL? We won't win it under Poch either and it doesn't attract better players in our case at least

Well, we don't have to worry about ManU wanting Poch after that. At least fans seem to be shifting away from wanting Poch with status changing from "done wonderful things on previous clubs" to "never won anything as manager".

 

[worcestersauce]

It doesn't sound right to me when you get a manager belittling the domestic cups. I don't recall seeing other managers of top 4 rivals doing the same.

Is top 4 our everything? We will probably watch OGS win the FA Cup this season and get top 4, even possibly at our expense?

Under Poch we just don't seem to be able to take that last step. I disagree with him hugely, winning a cup and finishing top 4 should be possible with the team and squad we have. The fact we haven't is a mentality / tactical thing under his management more than anything. If we didn't start so poorly first half at Chelsea we'd be in the final. There are countless examples of where his tactical failings or a lack of mentality have contributed to our cup exits, so I don't see why if those things were improved upon, we couldn't finish top 4 and win a cup.

Poch is not beyond criticism and fault. We shouldn't turn a blind eye to his failings in cups because he gets CL. I mean afterall, what is the point of CL? We won't win it under Poch either and it doesn't attract better players in our case at least

He didn't belittle the domestic cups, he reassessed his priorities in the teeth of an injury tsunami, personally I'd have played Kane, Dele and Son on Sunday and guess what, I bet he would have done too, what would you have done differently?

 

[Primativ]

Klopp was quite happy to quietly go out of the domestic cups early and is focussed on the league and the CL in exactly the same way Poch is. Arsenal and Chelsea don't have the CL to worry about, and Arsenal did worse than us in the domestic cups. And quite frankly, if we hadn't had an extraordinary injury crisis I think we'd be in the final of the league cup and in the 5th round of the FA cup, as well as the last 16 of the CL and 3rd in the EPL.

Mate, Klopp has reached like three finals in three seasons and he is currently top of the PL going for the title. They also have a realistic chance of winning the CL. Far more than we do. It is fair to say Klopp has sacrificed those cups because they have a very good chance of winning the biggest one of them all, the PL.

What the hell do we have a realistic chance of winning? As fans do we think we should accept being told by our manager that we are stupid to want to win the cups, we should be happy at just finishing in the top 4 places?

To me that doesn't sit right. I think Poch's quotes were hugely disappointing and I think he is feeling the pressure of another trophyless season. The guy has never won anything in his career, he can't keep belittling the cups, its ridiculous.

When I also put his remarks against the backdrop of a largely very underwhelming PL campaign, despite the points tally, which I think flatters us hugely, I don't see much to shout about. Then I see our lack of signings and his insistence on playing kids which aren't good enough....it's all a bit odd.

 

[worcestersauce]

Mate, Klopp has reached like three finals in three seasons and he is currently top of the PL going for the title. They also have a realistic chance of winning the CL. Far more than we do. It is fair to say Klopp has sacrificed those cups because they have a very good chance of winning the biggest one of them all, the PL.

What the hell do we have a realistic chance of winning? As fans do we think we should accept being told by our manager that we are stupid to want to win the cups, we should be happy at just finishing in the top 4 places?

To me that doesn't sit right. I think Poch's quotes were hugely disappointing and I think he is feeling the pressure of another trophyless season. The guy has never won anything in his career, he can't keep belittling the cups, its ridiculous.

When I also put his remarks against the backdrop of a largely very underwhelming PL campaign, despite the points tally, which I think flatters us hugely, I don't see much to shout about. Then I see our lack of signings and his insistence on playing kids which aren't good enough....it's all a bit odd.

Can you see the flaw in your argument?

 

[Primativ]

He didn't belittle the domestic cups, he reassessed his priorities in the teeth of an injury tsunami, personally I'd have played Kane, Dele and Son on Sunday and guess what, I bet he would have done too, what would you have done differently?

There are always loads of handy excuses why we never win anything under Poch aren't there. Some managers just find a way to win.

There is a legitimate discussion to be had about Poch's failings in the cups. Esepcially when league wise or CL wise, we haven't moved on to becoming realistic challengers. I don't think it is unreasonable to think these two things

Our squad is capable of winning a domestic cup and sustaining a top 4 challenge.
Poch should have won a cup by now, after 5 seasons in charge.

 

[worcestersauce]

There are always loads of handy excuses why we never win anything under Poch aren't there. Some managers just find a way to win.

There is a legitimate discussion to be had about Poch's failings in the cups. Esepcially when league wise or CL wise, we haven't moved on to becoming realistic challengers. I don't think it is unreasonable to think these two things

Our squad is capable of winning a domestic cup and sustaining a top 4 challenge.
Poch should have won a cup by now, after 5 seasons in charge.

I think it's fair to say it's a bit more than a handy excuse don't you?

 

[shelfboy68]

Mate, Klopp has reached like three finals in three seasons and he is currently top of the PL going for the title. They also have a realistic chance of winning the CL. Far more than we do. It is fair to say Klopp has sacrificed those cups because they have a very good chance of winning the biggest one of them all, the PL.

What the hell do we have a realistic chance of winning? As fans do we think we should accept being told by our manager that we are stupid to want to win the cups, we should be happy at just finishing in the top 4 places?

To me that doesn't sit right. I think Poch's quotes were hugely disappointing and I think he is feeling the pressure of another trophyless season. The guy has never won anything in his career, he can't keep belittling the cups, its ridiculous.

When I also put his remarks against the backdrop of a largely very underwhelming PL campaign, despite the points tally, which I think flatters us hugely, I don't see much to shout about. Then I see our lack of signings and his insistence on playing kids which aren't good enough....it's all a bit odd.

I think what poch is trying to do is take the sting out of the dissapoinment of going out of both competition's so close to one another and especially no shows in the first half of both game's.
I think he is trying to buy more time although he doesn't need to do that as levy won't get rid because he is doing what is asked of him keeping it going whilst keeping everything tight by not spending.
Yesterday injuries or not was a poor show the team looked like they had received no instruction and hadn't played together before, we was lucky that palace didn't add more goals because frankly they should have done.

 

[Primativ]

Can you see the flaw in your argument?

Yes, not won anything yet but their progression is quite clear. They are now REALISTIC PL and CL contenders. We are not, our progression has stalled.

In football projects and teams are cyclical, Liverpool are now 4 years under Klopp and are reaching the climax of their project under Klopp, which should mean PL winners. They have been even so close to winning the CL last season, the Europa League the year before.

There has been clear evidence of their progression.

I think our progression has stalled. We have seemingly reached the peak of our cycle under Poch, which resulted in finishing 2nd, far off a title challenge, and still not a single trophy. So we will have to start another cycle under Poch if he sticks around, but it will involve having to sign new world class players because Toby and Eriksen won't stick around. SO it makes it more diffcult than it was last time round.

What my fear is, is that this golden era will finish trophyless. That is my biggest fear and it is one which looks like happening.

 

[Primativ]

I think it's fair to say it's a bit more than a handy excuse don't you?

What was the excuse all the other big cup games we've lost under Poch? Look mate, Poch failing to win anything as Spurs manager so far is a big failing. Some Spurs fans like yourselves don't wish to hear it, fine. At the end of the day we are always the bridesmaids never the bride.

You can point to injuries, but even with a fit squad, past experience of our cup games under Poch show we'd have lost them anyway. At least to Chelsea. We had a full strength team in the first leg and got dominated which you seem to forget.

At least losing yesterday saved us from getting all the way to the semi final and losing to United or Chelsea again.

 

[Coyboy]

Klopp was quite happy to quietly go out of the domestic cups early and is focussed on the league and the CL in exactly the same way Poch is. Arsenal and Chelsea don't have the CL to worry about, and Arsenal did worse than us in the domestic cups. And quite frankly, if we hadn't had an extraordinary injury crisis I think we'd be in the final of the league cup and in the 5th round of the FA cup, as well as the last 16 of the CL and 3rd in the EPL.

Thank you.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Yes, not won anything yet but their progression is quite clear. They are now REALISTIC PL and CL contenders. We are not, our progression has stalled.

In football projects and teams are cyclical, Liverpool are now 4 years under Klopp and are reaching the climax of their project under Klopp, which should mean PL winners. They have been even so close to winning the CL last season, the Europa League the year before.

There has been clear evidence of their progression.

I think our progression has stalled. We have seemingly reached the peak of our cycle under Poch, which resulted in finishing 2nd, far off a title challenge, and still not a single trophy. So we will have to start another cycle under Poch if he sticks around, but it will involve having to sign new world class players because Toby and Eriksen won't stick around. SO it makes it more diffcult than it was last time round.

What my fear is, is that this golden era will finish trophyless. That is my biggest fear and it is one which looks like happening.

If you believe that our progression hasn’t just stalled but has vanished never to return, then I can understand your disenchantment.

Is it based on a belief that we need to spend hundreds of millions in the transfer market to compete?

If so, I think the one thing Pochettino has proven beyond doubt is that he’s a good manager of a club that doesn’t spend hundreds of millions, and it’s hard to think of a better one. Isn’t it?

 

[spids]

Mate, Klopp has reached like three finals in three seasons and he is currently top of the PL going for the title. They also have a realistic chance of winning the CL. Far more than we do. It is fair to say Klopp has sacrificed those cups because they have a very good chance of winning the biggest one of them all, the PL.

What the hell do we have a realistic chance of winning? As fans do we think we should accept being told by our manager that we are stupid to want to win the cups, we should be happy at just finishing in the top 4 places?

To me that doesn't sit right. I think Poch's quotes were hugely disappointing and I think he is feeling the pressure of another trophyless season. The guy has never won anything in his career, he can't keep belittling the cups, its ridiculous.

When I also put his remarks against the backdrop of a largely very underwhelming PL campaign, despite the points tally, which I think flatters us hugely, I don't see much to shout about. Then I see our lack of signings and his insistence on playing kids which aren't good enough....it's all a bit odd.

If you took Salah, Mane, Firminio out of the Liverpool team for the next month I am pretty sure they will win nothing. For the record Poch has been brilliant in the cups for us and also has been fighting for the league in each of the last three seasons. Only difference between Klopp and Poch is that Klopp has been given hundreds of millions to spend on better players whilst we have invested similar amounts in our new stadium.

 

[worcestersauce]

What was the excuse all the other big cup games we've lost under Poch? Look mate, Poch failing to win anything as Spurs manager so far is a big failing. Some Spurs fans like yourselves don't wish to hear it, fine. At the end of the day we are always the bridesmaids never the bride.

You can point to injuries, but even with a fit squad, past experience of our cup games under Poch show we'd have lost them anyway. At least to Chelsea. We had a full strength team in the first leg and got dominated which you seem to forget.

At least losing yesterday saved us from getting all the way to the semi final and losing to United or Chelsea again.

We didn't have a full strength team inthe first leg, however I too want to win something and was no less disappointed than you yesterday but your initial point was that Poch disrespected the cup as though he chose not to play our best side when our best side wasn't even available to him.
I also don't believe for one minute that we are at the end of anything, I believe we are at the beginning, maybe that's why our views don't coincide.

 

[danielneeds]

It seems the United fans have taken Poch’s “trophy ego” comments worse than some Spurs fans. He may well have talked himself out of the running.

 

[double0]

Pochettino is a fantastic manager and we are lucky to have him. He never complains or makes excuses, the narrative in the media is ok Tottenham are competitive but where’s the trophies? It’s an easy stick to beat us with. Now I’m not saying forget trophies I do feel we’ve the squad fully fit to win however it’s not the end of the world because when you take into consideration how far we’ve come and the path we’re on nobody really can complain. The project was always to qualify for CL while building the stadium imo were on schedule.

By the way Liverpool Arsenal Everton all out of both all had spent more on players than us.... another narrative