The Soldado debate

[Francis Gibbs]

prepared to give Soldado time as half a dozen or so games is no time in a new league especially one like the PL, that said from what I have seen I am still not sure at what it is he excels at. For £26m you think you are getting a player who is a great finisher, a great target man or a great hold up player ...... I still cant see his main strength, I hope he isnt a bit of a jack of all trades and master of none.

 

[jambreck]

We've got wingers, but they are played on the other wings from their strongest foot and hence don't get past or in behind defences to cross and create the opportunities that Soldado strives on. Until we have a leftie on the left and righty on the right, he'll be starved of service.

I disagree. Playing inverted wingers works best when you have two attacking full backs who overlap at every opportunity. They are the ones who are supposed to provide the kind of service that you describe.

What's required, then, is for Kyle Walker to do that job better and more frequently (that's not meant to be a criticism of him, by the way). And for Kyle Naughton not to be at left back. Because playing an inverted winger and an inverted full back on the same side of the pitch is not a good idea!

 

[NEVILLEB]

Soldado has played up front on his own plenty. And done the job very well. Doing it in the Premier League is no different to doing it anywhere else. The only thing that is relevant is whether or not the team he is playing for (rather than against) is well suited to fielding him up front on his own. We'll find that out soon enough.

Soldado isn't the quickest. But nor is he slow. He isn't the strongest. But nor is he weak. And, in addition to being an outstanding finisher, he has one quality in abundance that is even more important in a lone striker, IMO, than the two attributes that you cite - good, intelligent movement.

1. Soldado has played as a lone striker only in Spain. A place where the ball is nearly always played into feet and the physical contact is much lower.

Doing it in the Premier League is different from doing it anywhere else. The tempo is higher and it's much more physical.

2. I didn't say he was slow and weak. He just isn't particularly quick or strong. Playing on your own sometimes requires you to occupy two defenders so it helps to have something extra to use against them.

Hopefully he'll come good.

 

[jambreck]

1. Soldado has played as a lone striker only in Spain. A place where the ball is nearly always played into feet and the physical contact is much lower.

Doing it in the Premier League is different from doing it anywhere else. The tempo is higher and it's much more physical.

2. I didn't say he was slow and weak. He just isn't particularly quick or strong. Playing on your own sometimes requires you to occupy two defenders so it helps to have something extra to use against them.

Hopefully he'll come good.

As I said, I don't think it makes any difference whether you are playing up front on your own in Spain or in England.

What matters is the team you are playing for. Not the teams you are playing against.

Soldado's "something extra" is superb movement. Far more important than straight up speed or muscle, IMO.

 

[dagraham]

As I said, I don't think it makes any difference whether you are playing up front on your own in Spain or in England.

What matters is the team you are playing for. Not the teams you are playing against.

Soldado's "something extra" is superb movement. Far more important than straight up speed or muscle, IMO.

It does matter imo. Soldado simply won't come across players like Ivanovic or Terry in Spain and if he did the referees simply don't allow the same type of physical contact. It doesn't mean Soldado won't adapt but imo he is being left too isolated at the moment.

 

[buttons]

He is making all the right runs and is clearly a very clever player. At the minute it seems to be a bit of the support players not knowing his runs and also his touch, when he does get played in, letting him down.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

12 pages eh? I'm not going to run through it all but that's pretty surprising. I assumed the thread would have died after a few posters say to give him a break.

 

[WestBelfast Spurs]

can only see goals in this lads future when the 2 eriks are playing behind him, feed the Solider and he will score

 

[Huddlestone22]

It does matter imo. Soldado simply won't come across players like Ivanovic or Terry in Spain and if he did the referees simply don't allow the same type of physical contact.

Pepe and Sergio Ramos say hi.

 

[dagraham]

Pepe and Sergio Ramos say hi.

Yeah, Pepe is a dirty shit but they are more off the ball sneaky fouls from what I've seen. The refs in Spain blow up far more often for the slightest phyical contact, where in the PL, as we saw on Saturday, half the time they just wave play on.

 

[crokey]

From this supposed poor start he already has 4 goals and has been unlucky not to score more. He is still on course for a 20 goal season if he remains this unlucky the entire year. He is going to be a hero for us.

 

[KILLA_SIN]

i know people are bored of hearing about benteke but he was just so obviously the right striker to sign, hopefully we finish in the top 4 this season and then nab him next summer. i liken the signing of soldado to that of buying a new car, you know that once you've driven it out of the showroom you've already lost 30% on the price you paid, so unless he delivers big time, we're only going to get -ev on our return. ultimately though, as long as the team carries on picking up results then as fans, it doesn't matter whether soldado goes 0 for 38 or 20 for 38 over the season.

Just reading through your posts the impression you give is that if the club make a decision in buying player that you don't necessarily agree with or a player you don't rate then it's the wrong decision.

Anyway the number of players that have been questioned as to whether they will cut it is too long, Kaboul, BAE, Berba, Modric, Bale ffs, and yet again six games into a season people are pretty sure Soldado won't make it. How can anyone judge a player on such little time? He has not hit the ground running but that does not mean he will not adapt.

 

[Kendall]

Just reading through your posts the impression you give is that if the club make a decision in buying player that you don't necessarily agree with or a player you don't rate then it's the wrong decision.

Anyway the number of players that have been questioned as to whether they will cut it is too long, Kaboul, BAE, Berba, Modric, Bale ffs, and yet again six games into a season people are pretty sure Soldado won't make it. How can anyone judge a player on such little time? He has not hit the ground running but that does not mean he will not adapt.

Berba was never questioned, the rest were all under 25 when they joined us and cost considerably less. For 26m for a 28 year old I want a return. I want him to at least look dangerous. I just can't see where his success will comr from at the moment. It's not like hes a Suarez and is ridiculously comfortable on the ball/skillful, not is he Benteke who can create something out of nothing with pure brute force and a good technique. We've had our issues with pure strikers before - hell we've had one in Defoe for long enough.

 

[danielneeds]

I think a lot of the doubts come from expectations the fans have of us spending £26m on a striker, and on the fact it has been a problem position for us, one way or another, since Berbatov downed tools and headed into Fergie's car-boot.

For £26m maybe people were expecting an explosive player, like Suarez or Augero, who could not only finish chances, but also create them for himself.

The fact is that anyone who watched him in Spain, and did their due diligence, would know that he's not an outstanding footballer - by that I mean, he's not especially gifted physically in size or speed, or doesn't have outstanding touch or vision like a RVP.

In terms of his time at Valencia, he would also go some games without a goal and also look isolated up front, and as the team sold off their attacking talents and started to go into decline, this became a problem too.

However, he is a goal-scorer, and I've no doubts with the talent we have at our disposal to put around him, he will score goals for us too. I'm pretty sure AVB and Baldini knew exactly what kind of player they were signing, and how they could develop the play around him.

I've got a feeling that Chadli's physique at LF was one of the reasons we went for him. He's a massive player physically, and could be used as a target man in the way we sometimes did with Bale at freekicks/goalkicks when Defoe was playing.

In time, he can become a Lineker/Clive Allen cutting edge for our attacking midfielders, but it will take some time.

 

[Kendall]

I think a lot of the doubts come from expectations the fans have of us spending £26m on a striker, and on the fact it has been a problem position for us, one way or another, since Berbatov downed tools and headed into Fergie's car-boot.

For £26m maybe people were expecting an explosive player, like Suarez or Augero, who could not only finish chances, but also create them for himself.

The fact is that anyone who watched him in Spain, and did their due diligence, would know that he's not an outstanding footballer - by that I mean, he's not especially gifted physically in size or speed, or doesn't have outstanding touch or vision like a RVP.

In terms of his time at Valencia, he would also go some games without a goal and also look isolated up front, and as the team sold off their attacking talents and started to go into decline, this became a problem too.

However, he is a goal-scorer, and I've no doubts with the talent we have at our disposal to put around him, he will score goals for us too. I'm pretty sure AVB and Baldini knew exactly what kind of player they were signing, and how they could develop the play around him.

I've got a feeling that Chadli's physique at LF was one of the reasons we went for him. He's a massive player physically, and could be used as a target man in the way we sometimes did with Bale at freekicks/goalkicks when Defoe was playing.

In time, he could be a Lineker/Clive Allen cutting edge for our attacking midfielders, but it will take some time.

This fills me with meh as those types of strikers are not usually hugely successful in the Prem. Look at the top strikers at the moment: RVP, Rooney, Suarez, Benteke, Lukaku... Soldado looks the odd one out because he doesn't appear to have any of the attributes that make those guys so good. Hell Sturridge looks a damn site more comfortable and direct than Soldado does and he's apparently not rated on here at all - another Defoe they said, well, between Soldado and Sturridge I know who plays more like Defoe at the moment and it ain't the one who looks the most like him.

 

[danielneeds]

This fills me with meh as those types of strikers are not usually hugely successful in the Prem. Look at the top strikers at the moment: RVP, Rooney, Suarez, Benteke, Lukaku... Soldado looks the odd one out because he doesn't appear to have any of the attributes that make those guys so good. Hell Sturridge looks a damn site more comfortable and direct than Soldado does and he's apparently not rated on here at all - another Defoe they said, well, between Soldado and Sturridge I know who plays more like Defoe at the moment and it ain't the one who looks the most like him.

Sturridge has had 5 years acclimatising to the PL though. Soldado's had 5 games. Time with tell, I'm not making any judgements on any of our new signings until after Xmas at least. It's simply too early to tell.

 

[shelfstandspur]

I think that Soldado is playing a team that has seen wholesale changes in the summer. This team has still had a really good start to the season without really clicking and indeed we are yet to know who our best 11 is. I'm sure that we have not seen anywhere near the best of any of our signings, including Soldado, and this is a real encouragement for me.
The individuals will prove their worth and they will get to understand each others strenths and the team will improve; if this improvement is adding to a team that is already getting results we should have a really good season.
I think that we will get 20+ goals from Soldado this season; he looks like a player that wants to win and will work at it until he acheves it.

 

[Misfit]

I disagree. Playing inverted wingers works best when you have two attacking full backs who overlap at every opportunity. They are the ones who are supposed to provide the kind of service that you describe.

What's required, then, is for Kyle Walker to do that job better and more frequently (that's not meant to be a criticism of him, by the way). And for Kyle Naughton not to be at left back. Because playing an inverted winger and an inverted full back on the same side of the pitch is not a good idea!

Which is why, until something happens at FB we might well see AVB playing one winger who cuts in and a proper wide man to get some attacking balance. As it is, we're very narrow and against teams who look to sit deep and congest the final 3rd it's inevitable what happens. Very few clear-cut chances and largely long range shots taken.


At least have someone out wide who can play a ball across the box regularly or put crosses in.

The FBs in AVB's system give the width and frankly, right now, our FBs, regardless of names, aren't exactly great at that in terms of final product. tinkering or moves in the window needed.

 

[PrettyColors]

Honestly, and I do like Soldado and think he deserves a chance, I'm growing frustrated with him.

If his name was Defoe we'd all be saying "this is why we should have bought a class striker this window," and honestly Defoe has looked more threatening in his sub appearances. My issue is just what does Soldado do exactly? He's a decent hold up striker but that isn't his game, he barely shoots, he has decent movement but you don't pay 26m for that. I'm sorry but I'm disappointed so far.

 

[KILLA_SIN]

Berba was never questioned, the rest were all under 25 when they joined us and cost considerably less. For 26m for a 28 year old I want a return. I want him to at least look dangerous. I just can't see where his success will comr from at the moment. It's not like hes a Suarez and is ridiculously comfortable on the ball/skillful, not is he Benteke who can create something out of nothing with pure brute force and a good technique. We've had our issues with pure strikers before - hell we've had one in Defoe for long enough.

Berbatov was most definitely questioned by many people here.