The Soldado debate

[YiddoInPoland]

Berba was never questioned, the rest were all under 25 when they joined us and cost considerably less. For 26m for a 28 year old I want a return. I want him to at least look dangerous. I just can't see where his success will comr from at the moment. It's not like hes a Suarez and is ridiculously comfortable on the ball/skillful, not is he Benteke who can create something out of nothing with pure brute force and a good technique. We've had our issues with pure strikers before - hell we've had one in Defoe for long enough.

You kind of answered yourself there, he is not an Suarez type or a Benteke type so people need to stop putting him there. He is a goal scorer, or a finisher of moves the key difference here is he has a brain.

Bent is devoid of a brain, he scores goals but does absolutely nothing else, which is why he didn't work out for us. Defoe is just so self involved it stops his brain from working some times, as his first instinct is "i am gonna score balls to everyone else", and in some situations its the right move to pull (as he scores) but more often then not he is not in the best position to try what he does (or he is offside).

Soldado is more of a team player and i bet we will see him sacrifice himself scoring if he feels someone is in a better position. We also have to get better at feeding him, our current style maybe doesn't suit his as much so he is either going to take a little time to adapt or our system will change to suit him, but honestly if he gets anywhere near 15ish goals this season i will be happy with that as i bet the goals will be spread more evenly around the team.

We have to give him at least half a season before we all clammer and say he is a waste of money, currently the team as a whole is not scoring much so we have to put it into context as well.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Honestly, and I do like Soldado and think he deserves a chance, I'm growing frustrated with him.

If his name was Defoe we'd all be saying "this is why we should have bought a class striker this window," and honestly Defoe has looked more threatening in his sub appearances. My issue is just what does Soldado do exactly? He's a decent hold up striker but that isn't his game, he barely shoots, he has decent movement but you don't pay 26m for that. I'm sorry but I'm disappointed so far.

he scores goals, that's pretty much it. when he's not scoring, you're not really left with a great deal. la liga form doesn't automatically translate into premier league form, for me the defending in la liga is much worse but teams are also technically superior to teams in england(including us), they're more adept at carving out clear-cut chances. put the ball on a plate for soldado and he'll more than likely score, but if you can't do that then you're left with a £26m paperweight. to succeed as a striker in england i think you either have to be physically gifted in terms of strength/pace/power - you don't necessarily have to be big like benteke or lukaku but the likes of tevez/aguero/rooney/suarez are all stocky and powerful - ignoring their obvious qualities with the ball, or you have to be wonderfully technically gifted like berbatov/van persie.

i'm not a massive fan of "feed the [goat] and he will score" type strikers, i'm not even a particularly great fan of falcao who is in the top bracket of that style of player, i want my striker to do more than goal-hang but avb obviously sees it differently. hopefully it works out but for now i don't have a preference between soldado and defoe.

 

[Wardy]

I think it's his first season and we need to give him time. He will come good.

Look at how much better Giroud has been this season

 

[Klinsmannesque]

Staggering that people are questioning him already. He may have played 6 games, but how many with Eriksen? Lennon will provide chances and space when he's back, and Lamela hasnt even started with him. We have had a good start, been laying a good foundation for the aforementioned to come in and create some spark. It will take time, and I am very happy the TEAM is playing solidly and we are picking up points. I am sure that over the course of the seaosn, AVB and co's work with the forward players will come to fruition, but for now its about creating that starting platform to build on whichwe are doing. We didnt go out and buy a RVP, a Lewandowski, a Falcao because we cant attract / afford them. People need to understand building takes time and we are in a great position considering our stature. Soldado will score goals when we work out / adjust to playing in the final third.

 

[dontcallme]

The issue here is simple.

We have bought a 28 year old striker. This is a guy in his prime and the point of buying these players is they do their job from the off.

People have a right to question whether he is the right signing and it's getting tiresome hearing every debate being responded to with "knee-jerk" and "give him time."

I think he has played quite well. He makes good, intelligent runs and this creates space. He has helped create a few goals through good simple passes when you might expect a goal-scorer to have a go.

I think once we get the likes of Eriksen, Lamela and Lennon in the team who like to play it to feet we'll start to see a few more goals from Soldado.

 

[jambreck]

It does matter imo. Soldado simply won't come across players like Ivanovic or Terry in Spain and if he did the referees simply don't allow the same type of physical contact. It doesn't mean Soldado won't adapt but imo he is being left too isolated at the moment.

Soldado might not have come across such defenders before. He might not have had experience of playing against English style defences too often before. But that doesn't mean that he's incapable of being effective against them. The claim was that Soldado isn't "the right type of striker" to play up front on his own in the Premier League.

And I can see nothing (because there is nothing) which substantiates this claim.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Soldado might not have come across such defenders before. He might not have had experience of playing against English style defences too often before. But that doesn't mean that he's incapable of being effective against them. The claim was that Soldado "isn't the right type of striker" to play up front on his own in the Premier League.

And I can see nothing (because there is nothing) which substantiates this claim.

don't you think that against arsenal for example, we'd have had more joy with adebayor up top? someone who's going to get hold of the ball and help bring others into play?

 

[jambreck]

This fills me with meh as those types of strikers are not usually hugely successful in the Prem. Look at the top strikers at the moment: RVP, Rooney, Suarez, Benteke, Lukaku... Soldado looks the odd one out because he doesn't appear to have any of the attributes that make those guys so good. Hell Sturridge looks a damn site more comfortable and direct than Soldado does and he's apparently not rated on here at all - another Defoe they said, well, between Soldado and Sturridge I know who plays more like Defoe at the moment and it ain't the one who looks the most like him.

Just because the current most successful strikers in the Premier League are of a different type to Soldado, it doesn't follow that Soldado is not suited to the Premier League. It just doesn't.

It's all about the team that he plays for. How they are set up. How they play. How he plays.

But if you want an example of a successful striker who isn't that dissimilar to Soldado, I give you Javier Hernandez. A goalscoring record in the Premier League of 33 from 79 games, despite never getting a good run in the team and despite most of his appearances being as a fairly late substitute. And Soldado is a superior all round player.

 

[jambreck]

don't you think that against arsenal for example, we'd have had more joy with adebayor up top? someone who's going to get hold of the ball and help bring others into play?

If we'd had Adebayor up front, we'd likely have been playing with ten men for most of the match.

....regardless of whether or not he was sent off.

But seriously, the Arsenal game was no litmus test. It was a half formed team, missing too many crucial, creative elements. In the circumstances, and if Ade had been anything like match fit (physically or mentally), he might have been more effective.

But the truth is that we won't be going into games with no creative outlet now that we have our full squad available (when fit). So it's not sensible to form any kind of judgement about Soldado and his effectiveness on the back of that game.

 

[jambreck]

Which is why, until something happens at FB we might well see AVB playing one winger who cuts in and a proper wide man to get some attacking balance. As it is, we're very narrow and against teams who look to sit deep and congest the final 3rd it's inevitable what happens. Very few clear-cut chances and largely long range shots taken.


At least have someone out wide who can play a ball across the box regularly or put crosses in.

The FBs in AVB's system give the width and frankly, right now, our FBs, regardless of names, aren't exactly great at that in terms of final product. tinkering or moves in the window needed.

Yep. If we're going to continue to play Naughton at left back, we have to play Townsend at left wing. Otherwise we pose no threat on the outside.

 

[Mullers]

The issue here is simple.

We have bought a 28 year old striker. This is a guy in his prime and the point of buying these players is they do their job from the off.

People have a write to question whether he is the right signing and it's getting tiresome hearing every debate being responded to with "knee-jerk" and "give him time."

I think he has played quite well. He makes good, intelligent runs and this creates space. He has helped create a few goals through good simple passes when you might expect a goal-scorer to have a go.

I think once we get the likes of Eriksen, Lamela and Lennon in the team who like to play it to feet we'll start to see a few more goal from Soldado.

You have a point, but give him time is a much more legitimate answer than knee jerk.

 

[Flashspur]

Soldado debate?? WTF is that?.....boo boys are out again I see.....latest scapegoat

 

[dagraham]

Soldado might not have come across such defenders before. He might not have had experience of playing against English style defences too often before. But that doesn't mean that he's incapable of being effective against them. The claim was that Soldado "isn't the right type of striker" to play up front on his own in the Premier League.

And I can see nothing (because there is nothing) which substantiates this claim.

I don't think I've heard anyone write off Soldado completely at this stage. I certainly haven't, just that only time will tell if he's the "right type of striker" to play up front on his own in the PL. You can't make a judgement one way or another at this stage but just as people will point to him being a very capable player with good movement and an excelllent finisher, others are right to point out that he doesn't possess the natural attributes of pace and strength to make playing up on his own in the PL a gimme.

Being a success in the PL and being a success in the PL playing up top on your own are two different scenarios.

 

[jambreck]

Honestly, and I do like Soldado and think he deserves a chance, I'm growing frustrated with him.

If his name was Defoe we'd all be saying "this is why we should have bought a class striker this window," and honestly Defoe has looked more threatening in his sub appearances. My issue is just what does Soldado do exactly? He's a decent hold up striker but that isn't his game, he barely shoots, he has decent movement but you don't pay 26m for that. I'm sorry but I'm disappointed so far.

You're growing frustrated with him?

Hang on, let me repeat that...

You're growing frustrated with him???

Really?

After 6 Premier League games?

6 bloody games?

Jesus wept!

Please....enough of these Defoe comparisons. We've been watching him for 9 years. We know what he's about - the good and the bad. We can't say the same about Soldado.

 

[Grapo2001]

Soldado debate?? WTF is that?.....boo boys are out again I see.....latest scapegoat

Guess you have never entered into a healthy debate on a subject before? Back to off topic chat for you little one

 

[Mullers]

I don't think I've heard anyone write off Soldado completely at this stage. I certainly haven't, just that only time will tell if he's the "right type of striker" to play up front on his own in the PL. You can't make a judgement one way or another at this stage but just as people will point to him being a very capable player with good movement and an excelllent finisher, others are right to point out that he doesn't possess the natural attributes of pace and strength to make playing up on his own in the PL a gimme.

Being a success in the PL and being a success in the PL playing up top on your own are two different scenarios.

As I've said repeatedly though if he or any other striker doesn't get service they won't score. It's not as if he misses chance after chance, that's why to me this debate is a bit false.

 

[jambreck]

I don't think I've heard anyone write off Soldado completely at this stage. I certainly haven't, just that only time will tell if he's the "right type of striker" to play up front on his own in the PL. You can't make a judgement one way or another at this stage but just as people will point to him being a very capable player with good movement and an excelllent finisher, others are right to point out that he doesn't possess the natural attributes of pace and strength to make playing up on his own in the PL a gimme.

Being a success in the PL and being a success in the PL playing up top on your own are two different scenarios.

The claim was that Soldado isn't the right type of striker to play up front on his own in the PL. No mention of "time will tell" whether he is or not.

I'm not making the claim that Soldado definitely is the right kind of striker. I'm just disputing the claim that he definitely isn't.

 

[dagraham]

As I've said repeatedly though if he or any other striker doesn't get service they won't score. It's not as if he misses chance after chance, that's why to me this debate is a bit false.

For what its worth, I've been impressed with him so far (apart from Saturday when he had a poor game). I keep banging on about it but I think its worth repeating, with both Lennon and Lemala in the team Soldado wil be far more effective imo.

Having said all that, I still think that Benteke would have been a better fit for our team and I'd like us to go in for him again in Jan, even if its just to give us another option and improve the squad.

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

Soldado debate?? WTF is that?.....boo boys are out again I see.....latest scapegoat

Are you incapable of reading the actual contents.

Fucking hell.

 

[Mullers]

For what its worth, I've been impressed with him so far (apart from Saturday when he had a poor game). I keep banging on about it but I think its worth repeating, with both Lennon and Lemala in the team Soldado wil be far more effective imo.

Having said all that, I still think that Benteke would have been a better fit for our team and I'd like us to go in for him again in Jan, even if its just to give us another option and improve the squad.

Lamela yeah, as for Lennon he's going to find it hard to get back in to the side, anyway it's not as if he's going to ping quality crosses for Soldado.

As for Benteke no chance, for one thing there is no Bale money left and secondly Beneteke's price is even likely to be higher by that time.