The VAR Thread

[cwy21]

I dislike VAR.

But the whole system is a made a farce by illogical laws (such as the handball definition), which isn't the fault of the system particularly. This could easily be changed and only takes a committee of people who have actual experience of match scenarios - so players, managers and referees in combination, for instance, looking at the laws of the game.

This already happens. There's a committee of players and a committee of former top level referees. They review all the proposed law changes and approve them.

Now this is the best part. These committees are called FAP and TAP. Now you probably think I'm making a joke. I'm not. FAP is the Footballers Advisory Panel (the former players and coaches). TAP is the Technical Advisory Panel. Together they make FAP + TAP.

 

[Marty]

This already happens. There's a committee of players and a committee of former top level referees. They review all the proposed law changes and approve them.

Now this is the best part. These committees are called FAP and TAP. Now you probably think I'm making a joke. I'm not. FAP is the Footballers Advisory Panel (the former players and coaches). TAP is the Technical Advisory Panel. Together they make FAP + TAP.

So, as you're a qualified referee, do you have a theory as to why the handball rule deviates so wildly from what most people think it should be? If players, coaches and refs all have a say, why can't they make it clearer and easier to understand?

 

[cwy21]

So, as you're a qualified referee, do you have a theory as to why the handball rule deviates so wildly from what most people think it should be? If players, coaches and refs all have a say, why can't they make it clearer and easier to understand?

From what I see, the problem with how handballs are called is very British. Most parts of the football world expect more handballs to be called. Yeah that's an oversimplied answer but since most of the English language football media is British (duh) it makes it appear like it's a huge widespread issue. There was a well known former ref who quiped after the World Cup final that the only people who didn't think that wasn't a penalty for handball were Brits and Croatians.

 

[Marty]

From what I see, the problem with how handballs are called is very British. Most parts of the football world expect more handballs to be called. Yeah that's an oversimplied answer but since most of the English language football media is British (duh) it makes it appear like it's a huge widespread issue. There was a well known former ref who quiped after the World Cup final that the only people who didn't think that wasn't a penalty for handball were Brits and Croatians.

I see your point. The British media (and public) don't want to see a handball given every time a ball hits a hand, maybe other countries are more willing to be stricter, my only other experience is with the Scandinavians who are very much of the British school of thought.

But even if I were to agree with the rule I still find the whole business of natural silhouette in the new rule over-complicated and in many ways very confusing. And I just plain don't agree with giving penalties for handballs like Rose v Man City, where a defender makes a challenge and the hand extends as a natural consequence of the challenge.

 

[Krule]

On October 26th 1863, 12 eminently respectable gentlemen met in a gas-lit room at the Freemasons’ Tavern in Great Queen Street, London. They represented clubs now long forgotten: Barnes, Crusaders, Forest, No Names of Kilburn. Drawn from the upper middle classes of the capital, they had set themselves a historic task: to create England’s first national football association and to draw up a common code of rules for the game.

Football is born......

2019/20 Season VAR introduced to Premier League.....New Handball rule comes into force

Football is murdered......R.I.P.

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

What happens when something happens in the penalty box, leaving fans screaming for VAR. Then the ref blows the final whistle before being informed of a VAR check...VAR would show a pen should have been given but the games over...
You just know its going to happen, and when it does there will be outrage.

 

[cwy21]

What happens when something happens in the penalty box, leaving fans screaming for VAR. Then the ref blows the final whistle before being informed of a VAR check...VAR would show a pen should have been given but the games over...
You just know its going to happen, and when it does there will be outrage.

This is covered in the laws. The Ref can still review it as long as the officiating team hasn't left the pitch.

It happened in Germany last year. Although it was halftime and not full time.

 

[wirE]

VAR Decision spot on tonight awarding France the penalty. Norwegian player with a high kick against the knee just after mearly clearing the ball. I don’t think that without VAR that the ref would’ve awarded a penalty. Good call imo

 

[ardiles]

So they are using VAR for the Copa too.

 

[nailsy]

VAR Decision spot on tonight awarding France the penalty. Norwegian player with a high kick against the knee just after mearly clearing the ball. I don’t think that without VAR that the ref would’ve awarded a penalty. Good call imo

I think a lot of refs have decided they won't give penalties now unless they're 100% sure as VAR will always check the incident to see if it should've been given.

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

Question on VAR. Will they televise what it is the people in the the review room are watching or is that part of it "confidential"? And a follow-up, do they only rely on the positioning of TV cameras or do they have their own cameras covering literally every inch and angle of the pitch?

 

[cwy21]

Question on VAR. Will they televise what it is the people in the the review room are watching or is that part of it "confidential"? And a follow-up, do they only rely on the positioning of TV cameras or do they have their own cameras covering literally every inch and angle of the pitch?

For these FIFA events the images we see when the ref is watching the screen is exactly what the ref is being shown.

And they use the TV feeds only.

 

[Danners9]

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...aly-jamaica-wendie-renard#IjzVwOVbRcgVrKGk.99

Many of the 'controversial' refereeing decisions from the past fortnight have led to suggestions that VAR itself is the problem, rather than the decisions being made.

This, though, misses the point.

So far, the controversies have come in two forms.

The first has been soft penalties. Most have been about handballs – which, given the number of Champions League controversies this season, hardly seems to be unique to the Women’s World Cup. Others have been about dangerous challenges; France’s penalty against Norway in particular.

But all of those penalty decisions have been correct, and probably would have been given in the men’s game regardless. Nothing here stands out as unique to this tournament.

The second round of controversy is a bit different, and has been over the two instances of penalty retakes. In Friday’s game between Italy and Jamaica, Cristiana Girelli saw her penalty saved by Sydney Schneider – but slotted home on the retake after Schneider was judged to have come off her line.

Monday’s match between France and Nigeria was even more controversial: Wendie Renard’s first attempt went wide, but scored with a second opportunity, following a video replay showing Chiamaka Nnadozie marginally in front of the goal line. Both Schneider and Nnadozie received yellow cards for their troubles.

This, many have argued, is the fault of VAR. Overzealousness from referees has led them to rely on video assistance for every marginal call, and the level of pedantry replays can provide is killing the game.

Don’t blame VAR, blame the rules.

In March, IFAB, the referees’ association, published a new tranche of rules to be introduced on 1 June, and which are already in use at this World Cup.
...
But these decisions have been about the new rules on penalties. Essentially, they read like an exaggeration of the previous ones that dictated a goalkeeper can’t come off their line. Now, keepers must keep one foot on (or in line with) the goal line, they “must not be moving”, touching the crossbar, or stood behind the line.

This all works in the penalty taker’s favour, and points us to the real problem here. It’s not the application of the rules, nor the presence of video replays with which to interpret them, but the rules themselves that are the real issue.

Referees are being told to look out for goalkeepers breaking these rules. It wasn’t VAR that asked them to do that.

With the introduction of VAR into the Premier League next season, keepers should take note.

 

[Saoirse]

Another ridiculous penalty retake in the Scotland-Argentina game. Either the rule won't be applied to the letter in the PL, or we're going to see virtually no penalties saved as well as quite a few more given for dubious handball offences. They definitely need to review this particular change, it's beyond stupid.

 

[chrissivad]

Hasn't it been a rule for a while that you can't come off your line?
It's just going to take a while for keepers to not step, jump forward just before the pen is taken.

 

[Saoirse]

Hasn't it been a rule for a while that you can't come off your line?
It's just going to take a while for keepers to not step, jump forward just before the pen is taken.

There's no way to gather momentum though. You have to be on the line, so you can't start behind it and then move a bit forwards. And you can't start moving enough to the sides to make a save without coming forwards at all. Pretty much any penalty vaguely towards either corner will be scored. The rule used to exist, but was only enforced if the keeper wasn't remotely close to the line - having to be physically on or over it doesn't work.

 

[Spurrific]

Funny, though

 

[chrissivad]

There's no way to gather momentum though. You have to be on the line, so you can't start behind it and then move a bit forwards. And you can't start moving enough to the sides to make a save without coming forwards at all. Pretty much any penalty vaguely towards either corner will be scored. The rule used to exist, but was only enforced if the keeper wasn't remotely close to the line - having to be physically on or over it doesn't work.

Why can't you move enough to the side?
As long as you keep a point of contact with the line you could bounce between feet before diving.

Also pens should be easier for the taker than the keeper.

 

[yankspurs]

VAR's going to be an absolute trainwreck in the Prem, isn't it?

 

[cwy21]

VAR's going to be an absolute trainwreck in the Prem, isn't it?

If they run it like the 2018 World Cup it will be fine. If it's run like the 2019 World Cup it will be a **** show.