we don't have the Ayers to apply Poch's 'philosophy'

[Mornstar]

As much as Jamie Redknapp is disliked by some on here, I thought his pre-match comments about the lack of compatibility of our players with Poch's system bang on. Poch likes a pressing style as he showed at Southampton, while the likes of Ade, Soldado, Eriksen and co are just happy to jog about in the middle of the park. What this guarantees is further changes being made to the side and yet more 'transition' periods to look forward to! In the meantime, the likes of lloris and vertonghen are going to end up leaving and the transition will drag on yet further. This would just be so typical of us.....always nearly there but not quite.

 

[theShiznit]

I think midfield is more the problem.

too many tanks. Imobile players with little agility. leading to us getting overrun in the middle irrespective of AM's and strikers doing their bit.

But he will know who's up to it and who isn't and they will be moved along (hopefully)

 

[danielneeds]

Any player can press, it is down to motivation and mindset.

 

[absolute bobbins]

Question, Does this really need it's own thread?

Answer, No

 

[Nine while nine]

As much as Jamie Redknapp is disliked by some on here, I thought his pre-match comments about the lack of compatibility of our players with Poch's system bang on. Poch likes a pressing style as he showed at Southampton, while the likes of Ade, Soldado, Eriksen and co are just happy to jog about in the middle of the park. What this guarantees is further changes being made to the side and yet more 'transition' periods to look forward to! In the meantime, the likes of lloris and vertonghen are going to end up leaving and the transition will drag on yet further. This would just be so typical of us.....always nearly there but not quite.

Love the reference to Freddie Ayer, the famous philosopher and Spurs fan.

Yes, we may not have the players to suit Poch's philosophy, but we had enough about us to deal with a bunch of Kants and that will do me for now.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Question, Does this really need it's own thread?

Answer, No

Why? There's not another thread about Ayers

 

[wiggo24]

Lamela presses.
Eriksen is getting better (see yesterday's goal)
Chadli works pretty hard.
Kane/Soldado are decent if we're playing well, otherwise they get frustrated and just jog around.

Ade is the only one that literally couldn't give a shit.

As for the "passing forward" bit, that's about the players. Mason is the only one who has, so far, always looked to do this, and Capoue is also decent. That's probably why he's starting every game.
This is the main problem imo.

 

[Shea]

I don't know whether it's depressing to see Southampton having had half their squad ripped apart playing better than ever under Koeman or encouraging to think the reason they're playing so well is a knock on effect of the principals and team development employed by Poch during his time there

Any way you spin it the new manager needs time to mould this squad - be that with a few new signings he needs to make the team and squad capable of playing the way he wants and or time to allow the players to adjust to his ideas and learn to do it as a cohesive unit (hunt in packs, press effectively as a unit, make runs and see others runs etc etc)

 

[Black]

I don't see why we need to be pressing 100% anyway and why everyone is so pro pressing now.

It didn't work under AVB and it's not working under poch, even when we have the ball our front four ain't smart enough to move about and make space for them selves like arsenal did yesterday. We are a good counter attacking team when we want to be that's one part of our game that's needs to be improved.

 

[only1waddle]

I don't know whether it's depressing to see Southampton having had half their squad ripped apart playing better than ever under Koeman or encouraging to think the reason they're playing so well is a knock on effect of the principals and team development employed by Poch during his time there

Any way you spin it the new manager needs time to mould this squad - be that with a few new signings he needs to make the team and squad capable of playing the way he wants and or time to allow the players to adjust to his ideas and learn to do it as a cohesive unit (hunt in packs, press effectively as a unit, make runs and see others runs etc etc)

I don't think it has much to do with Poch, Saints are sitting deeper and not pressing as high up, Pelle looks a good purchase too, will they stay consistant? hard to say but any sort of period with injuries and they will suffer a drop without doubt.

 

[Shea]

I don't see why we need to be pressing 100% anyway and why everyone is so pro pressing now.

It didn't work under AVB and it's not working under poch, even when we have the ball our front four ain't smart enough to move about and make space for them selves like arsenal did yesterday. We are a good counter attacking team when we want to be that's one part of our game that's needs to be improved.

It's not about pressing 100% it's about pressing intelligently as a team/unit

We saw the rewards of that yesterday for our goal - Kaboul pressed Chambers which lead to him releasing the ball quicker and Erkisen then pressed the receiving playing which lead to us regaining possession and supported by Lamela lead to the goal directly

It's clearly an effective tactic but it needs to be done correctly - under AVB it was a mess, for the most part under Poch so far it has not been great but I see the potential

You need only look at Southampton to see their success with a system using players who are no better than ours and quite often not as good though working well as a unit

One area of concern that ties in with your own opinion however is that Southampton possibly look better this year than they did last year and Schniderland suggests Koeman has made some key adjustments to their tactics - namely not having to press so high up the pitch so you may be right or at least you may have a point

Watching what they did at Anfield however - they terrorised Liverpool off the ball and their movement and passing on the ball was great, they really should have beat Liverpool comfortably and have had a great season ever since

 

[Shea]

I don't think it has much to do with Poch, Saints are sitting deeper and not pressing as high up, Pelle looks a good purchase too, will they stay consistant? hard to say but any sort of period with injuries and they will suffer a drop without doubt.

They certainly won't remain in the top four by xmas

I think its true that Koeman has made adjustments that seem to have benefitted the team (as MS comments have also suggested) which is a bit worrying to think that they're actually playing better without Poch in spite of them having sold so many of their top players

However there is bound to be some lay over effect of Poch's work there - I refuse to believe Koeman in such a short period of time has eradicated everything Poch did to make them an effective EPL unit. Koeman himself said that he has basically allowed them to continue doing what they do although MS and what I see with my own eyes do suggest he's made some adjustments that so far have paid dividends (I still have faith that their success is enough to encourage us that once given time Poch can build us into a team that can perform above and beyond our individual talents as a unit)

It's incredibly frustrating however to see clubs like Swansea and Southampton picking up players like Pelle and Bony when you think that was the type of signing that we built our own success on and now we're spending huge money on players like Pauliho and Soldado and seeing little to no return for our investment

 

[only1waddle]

They certainly won't remain in the top four by xmas

I think its true that Koeman has made adjustments that seem to have benefitted the team (as MS comments have also suggested) which is a bit worrying to think that they're actually playing better without Poch in spite of them having sold so many of their top players

However there is bound to be some lay over effect of Poch's work there - I refuse to believe Koeman in such a short period of time has eradicated everything Poch did to make them an effective EPL unit. Koeman himself said that he has basically allowed them to continue doing what they do although MS and what I see with my own eyes do suggest he's made some adjustments that so far have paid dividends (I still have faith that their success is enough to encourage us that once given time Poch can build us into a team that can perform above and beyond our individual talents as a unit)

It's incredibly frustrating however to see clubs like Swansea and Southampton picking up players like Pelle and Bony when you think that was the type of signing that we built our own success on and now we're spending huge money on players like Pauliho and Soldado and seeing little to no return for our investment

Agree, Our whole transfer approach needs altering if we want consistency on the pitch, not only scouting and spotting players to play in our league but to build a squad, maybe Broomfield will address this problem in the next few seasons.

The worrying suggestion from ITK regarding Levy signing players based on recommendations from agents tells me Poch has stepped into the fire, already he looks shocked and slightly bemused by it all, i cant help feeling short term results and short term profit will hinder any sort of development in playing style, we simply turnover too many players.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I don't know why people think it is impossible for Poch to change his philosophy. It's like his 5/6th season in management.

 

[JerryGarcia]

Maybe Poch will change his philosophy untill he can get the right players in all positions? Or maybe he'll just change it for certain games like we seemed to see yesterday? AVB failed to adapt (or left it too late) but Poch seems to have more in his locker so I'm not worried. If the players had not given a fuck yesterday then I would have been, but they went out to fight and came back with a good point from the Emirates. That shows enough progress for me that I'm just eager to see how far we can go with this manager over the next few seasons.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Ade is the only one that literally couldn't give a shit

So that's what's wrong with him. He's constipated.

Must be all those Ayers he's been eating.

 

[poc]

Said it a few times our team or rather squad is very well suited IMO to setting up to hit with quick counters not this pressing style, if Poch can recognise this and gradually change the personnel over time who are better suited to his high press he may end up being around long enough to achieve his aims.

 

[whitesocks]

It's incredibly frustrating however to see clubs like Swansea and Southampton picking up players like Pelle and Bony when you think that was the type of signing that we built our own success on and now we're spending huge money on players like Pauliho and Soldado and seeing little to no return for our investment

Things were different in the good old days. We would generate 3X the match day income of these minnows, and pay 3X the salary. We could take our pick.
Now the TV money for prem games is spread relatively evenly and is all the clubs' main source of income (xpt the CL clubs). We cannot make an offer they can't refuse and the games are pretty tight - any euro hangover and we tend to lose.
And that is what makes our league so watchable.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Said it a few times our team or rather squad is very well suited IMO to setting up to hit with quick counters not this pressing style, if Poch can recognise this and gradually change the personnel over time who are better suited to his high press he may end up being around long enough to achieve his aims.

I think we lack a bit of pace in forward positions to play purely on the counter in my opinion.

 

[Shadydan]

I think we lack a bit of pace in forward positions to play purely on the counter in my opinion.

To be honest with you you don't even need to have pace to play on the counter, sure it helps but it's not the be all and end all, it comes down to speed of thought and playing the right passes otherwise we'd just sit back and play Lennon and Townsend every match in hope we'll catch teams out.

Look how Chelsea countered against City last week for their goal, bar Hazard you wouldn't say they were blessed with pace, they just played the correct passes to each other.