The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 25th June 2012

SpurSince57 · Jun 26, 2012

worcestersauce said:
you do lay it on thick when you've got a bee on your bonnet ss57 i think mackay white and Allen were the latest signings in the double side but therest of the team had been there at least five years or more predating nicholson as manager. that is hardly like chelsea and city, in fact its morelike spurs now.

Everyone knows Bill was pulling Jimmy Anderson's strings.

Mackay, Brown, Marchi, Allen and White came in after Bill officially took over in Autumn '58, for a total of over £100k; you can add another three zeroes to that for today's values. Cliff Jones came in in early '58 and was definitely signed at Bill's behest, for another £35k(m). The rest had not been there 'for at least five years'. Blanchflower and Dyson came in 1954, Smith, Medwin and Norman in 55-56.

Jamturk · Jun 26, 2012

I think its more to do with their top ITK saying it was a done deal.

bubble07 · Jun 26, 2012

RAWK is going into meltdown.Although someone on there did say he is a big united fan and by going to Liverpool he would find I hard to move to united. Sour grapes I feel but still could be true

spursandbarca · Jun 26, 2012

lol at morons doubting pep Guardiolas abilities as a manager.

2 champions leagues, 2 world club champions, 3 la ligas, 2 copa del rey, 2 european super cups 3 spanish super cups 14 trophies in 4 seasons. enough said

Spursidol · Jun 26, 2012

Jamturk said:
I think its more to do with their top ITK saying it was a done deal.

Correction :

top ITK's

In fact all their reputable ITK's I am told (until about 2 hours ago) ...which is why they are in meldown mow

Hope its true !

VincenzoCoccotti · Jun 26, 2012

spursandbarca said:
lol at morons doubting pep Guardiolas abilities as a manager.

2 champions leagues, 2 world club champions, 3 la ligas, 2 copa del rey, 2 european super cups 3 spanish super cups 14 trophies in 4 seasons. enough said

While not doubting Pep's ability Frank Rijkaard won the treble in 2005 including CL and has been a gigantic flop at every club and country he has managed since, that is not reflecting on Pep's ability but there is no overwhelming proof yet that he isn't another Rijkaard

M.I.B. · Jun 26, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
Who are these people that can't see that? Can they please put up their hands?

Money, whatever its source, is money. Its source is ultimately irrelevant. There is no moral distinction between 'earned' and 'invested', and to argue that there is is mere casuistry. We had more of it than most clubs, we used it buy players that would bring us success.

Which in those days, due to the maximum wage, resulted in players going to the club that offered the best FOOTBALL oportunity, NOT the highest wage.

Sorry, but this argument doesn't wash with me. THFC as a club paid little more for players than the likes of man Utd and Chelsea were doing even then.

We were not bank-rolled. It was our hard earned money. Period.

CJMurray · Jun 26, 2012

VincenzoCoccotti said:
While not doubting Pep's ability Frank Rijkaard won the treble in 2005 including CL and has been a gigantic flop at every club and country he has managed since, that is not reflecting on Pep's ability but there is no overwhelming proof yet that he isn't another Rijkaard

A gigantic flop at every club. Buy every, do you actually mean one? He was sacked at Galatasaray with a 60% win record. Horrendous.
Since leaving Barca he's managed Galatasaray and is currently managing Saudi Arabia. If you could elaborate on the 'gigantic flop at every club' part, that'd be nice.

kcmei · Jun 26, 2012

u cant compare pep to rijkaard. If you did then i dont think u know football well

spud · Jun 26, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
As I've had to post several times already this window, how do you think we assembled the Double Team?

And as I replied to your post yesterday, this is how. Like our rivals at that time, we spent money derived from football-related income on the best players that we could. Then a great manager made those players into a great team. So we did what everybody else was doing, but we did it better.

It is so far removed from the Chelski/Citeh scenario that I wonder why you ever bothered to draw the comparison, and am amazed that you consistently feel the need to allude to it.

King of Otters · Jun 26, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
Who are these people that can't see that? Can they please put up their hands?

Money, whatever its source, is money. Its source is ultimately irrelevant. There is no moral distinction between 'earned' and 'invested', and to argue that there is is mere casuistry. We had more of it than most clubs, we used it buy players that would bring us success.

So there is no 'moral distinction' between earning and paying your way in life as opposed to living off your parents or the welfare state?

And 'Money, whatever its source, is money. Its source is ultimately irrelevant.' sounds like the kind of thing a gangster rapper might come out with if they could write in complete sentences.

SpurSince57 · Jun 26, 2012

Crawley-Yid said:
Which in those days, due to the maximum wage, resulted in players going to the club that offered the best FOOTBALL oportunity, NOT the highest wage.

Sorry, but this argument doesn't wash with me. THFC as a club paid little more for players than the likes of man Utd and Chelsea were doing even then.

We were not bank-rolled. It was our hard earned money. Period.

Players had little or no say in where they went. They were effectively chattels, to be bought or sold regardless of their personal wishes. At least learn your facts.

They were wealthy clubs too. So were Sunderland, who were known as 'The Millionaires Club' in the 50s because they spent more than anyone else. They didn't spend too wisely, however.

It was money. We had more of it than most. It doesn't really matter where it came from.

bilburger · Jun 26, 2012

beats1 said:
Pep is possible just unlikely, I just have this sneaking feeling he may end up le arse

I want to dislike this post, but don't want to taint you with a red number because, unfortunately, I agree... Philosophy-wise Arsenal are the closest thing to Barca we have in England...

spud · Jun 26, 2012

kdspur said:
i find it amazing on here when people talk shit about pursing it in the right way.. its comical.. its all about the money and who pays the most. the more money a club is willing to spend on players and agents the best players will join them , end of.

id be thrilled if kuwati crowd bought us . that real exciting times. man city are around for the long haul aand as im sure we would with them in charge and if it was all to fail whats the problem ? sell off the players and go back to the levy model of buying cheap and seen if they come good. simples lol

'Doing it the right way' means consistently improving by living within your means. Even UEFA can see the distinction between that and the 'billionaire buying everything' route to success, so I'm surprised that you can't.

Yes, that means that the rich probably get richer, but it's certainly preferable to what we see now, whereby a club can hoover up all of the talent that's available (and much of the talent that isn't) to the detriment of the game itself. ManUre earned the right to spend what they have by being consistently successful and consistently well-supported over a long period. Chelski, Citeh, PSG etc haven't, and the game in England and accross Europe has suffered and will continue to suffer as a result.

I for one want no part of us achieveing 'success' by spending hundreds of millions at players just because our owner considers it loose change.

Spurger King · Jun 26, 2012

I suppose if things are going to go off topic they might as well go over 50 years off topic.

spud · Jun 26, 2012

bilburger said:
I want to dislike this post, but don't want to taint you with a red number because, unfortunately, I agree... Philosophy-wise Arsenal are the closest thing to Barca we have in England...

Almost right. Philosophy-wise, Arsene Wenger is the closest thing.... Before he came they were the antithesis of the Barca philosophy, and I'm hoping that when he goes they will revert to type.

SpurSince57 · Jun 26, 2012

spud said:
And as I replied to your post yesterday, this is how. Like our rivals at that time, we spent money derived from football-related income on the best players that we could. Then a great manager made those players into a great team. So we did what everybody else was doing, but we did it better.

It is so far removed from the Chelski/Citeh scenario that I wonder why you ever bothered to draw the comparison, and am amazed that you consistently feel the need to allude to it.

No, we didn't do what 'everybody else' was doing. 'Everybody else' didn't have our financial resources.

Are you claiming that we didn't buy our success because the money was self-generated? Therefore it didn't actually exist?

Spurger King · Jun 26, 2012

spud said:
I for one want no part of us achieveing 'success' by spending hundreds of millions at players just because our owner considers it loose change.

That's all success is now though. City won the league. Chelsea won the Champions League. Both bought their success and will will still have their names on those trophies many years from now.

Personally I'd like to see us maintain our team whilst gradually building. The only way I can see that happening is if we are able to pay wages that compete with the biggest hitters. We might not sign players for £50m, but if we could keep players like Modric by paying them £150k plus I'd be happy with that.

Without money we won't get a new stadium, or be able to build a team constantly having to start again due to being able to hold on to key players. Any hope of doing otherwise is a pipe dream at worst, or an ephemeral and moderate success at best.

OmarsComing · Jun 26, 2012

hey fuck all this black and white 1958 bullshit.

King of Otters · Jun 26, 2012

My attitude to having success handed to us on a plate can be expressed thusly - I'd much prefer to start up a blue chip company from scratch and achieve something through hard work but that doesn't I mean I'd turn down a winning lotto ticket if I came across one.

I dearly want to see us win things, big things, the right way. I mean the PL and the CL, but realistically it isn't going to happen. So with that in mind I'll take the lotto ticket if it's all the same

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