Arsenal Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

kendoddsdadsdogsdead · Jan 5, 2014

felmani26 said:
We were schooled by a superior team and a superior tactician - to suggest otherwise is just ignorance.

felmani26 said:
This argument of using two games and extrapolate over AVB's reign is tiresome.

The very best have all had complete horror shows;

Mourinho vs Barcelona
Fergie vs Man City
Wenger vs United

Do we use those matches as the yard stick to judge their managerial careers?!

Yet you've defined Sherwood over one game. Was Wenger tactically schooled by Lambert earlier in the season?What's more tiresome is people up there own arses with there own supposed tactical acumen. Can't you just lose a game of football anymore, from reasons that aren't tactical, just as when you win it's not always because you tactically outclassed the other manager. 4-2-3-1 the cure for everything, the magical formula to beat any team in the world home or away. Pack the midfield but have not much out ball, come and let them play in our half without fear of knowing you're not going to get any meaningful possession in the final third. I suspect you decided how/why we lost before the game and maybe even before the other games since Sherwood took over and were just waiting for us to get beat in one of them. Actually we just struggled to deal with Walcotts pace and movement with a depleted defence and in actual fact how many chances did they make? how much possession did they have? I'm not even going to compare it to the game with AVB because that speaks for itself. Forget formation at the end of the day we look more fluid with the ball now.

millsey · Jan 5, 2014

jezz said:
No probs, if you think losing to West Ham reserves is backing you up, then im no sherwood fan either

If you went off a manager for every bad result against a lower side, Ferguson and Wenger ect would never had lasted a season

jezz · Jan 5, 2014

millsey said:
If you went off a manager for every bad result against a lower side, Ferguson and Wenger ect would never had lasted a season

They learnt from there errors, has Tim?
Sounds a bit like AVB stubbornness and that turned out well.

shelfboy68 · Jan 5, 2014

kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:
Yet you've defined Sherwood over one game. Was Wenger tactically schooled by Lambert earlier in the season?What's more tiresome is people up there own arses with there own supposed tactical acumen. Can't you just lose a game of football anymore, from reasons that aren't tactical, just as when you win it's not always because you tactically outclassed the other manager. 4-2-3-1 the cure for everything, the magical formula to beat any team in the world home or away. Pack the midfield but have not much out ball, come and let them play in our half without fear of knowing you're not going to get any meaningful possession in the final third. I suspect you decided how/why we lost before the game and maybe even before the other games since Sherwood took over and were just waiting for us to get beat in one of them. Actually we just struggled to deal with Walcotts pace and movement with a depleted defence and in actual fact how many chances did they make? how much possession did they have? I'm not even going to compare it to the game with AVB because that speaks for itself. Forget formation at the end of the day we look more fluid with the ball now.

Trouble is Tim has to be able to take criticism and the rough with the smooth and all that as he has been cocky enough in press conferences to tell all that basically football is as a simple game.
But when your faced with the notion that we were outnumbered in midfield yesterday by the media and to claim that we weren't was naive and going with that formation to start with the same.
Nevertheless I will support him as we have no option until the end of the season cos the club is more important than anyone.

Gaz_Gammon · Jan 5, 2014

Sweetsman said:
Weren't we playing a very high line and didn't Sherwood say that he believed in Rose? I'm surprised you didn't mention the former, but I expect that you have a very selective memory.

Go back under the stone from where you crept and hug your photo of AVB. If anyone around here has a selective memory it's an AVB lover and he's your number one idol. Surprised you didn't mention that AVB let a very good CL experienced left back go out on loan. Still why let the facts get into the this love in of yours.

millsey · Jan 5, 2014

jezz said:
They learnt from there errors, has Tim?
Sounds a bit like AVB stubbornness and that turned out well.

They learnt from there errors over 20 years, not 4 games. Jesus

millsey · Jan 5, 2014

shelfboy68 said:
Trouble is Tim has to be able to take criticism and the rough with the smooth and all that as he has been cocky enough in press conferences to tell all that basically football is as a simple game.
But when your faced with the notion that we were outnumbered in midfield yesterday by the media and to claim that we weren't was naive and going with that formation to start with the same.
Nevertheless I will support him as we have no option until the end of the season cos the club is more important than anyone.

Agree but no manager has ever ever said, im sorry i got that wrong and its my fault. Players would wonder who they are playing under. Key is if he learns from this

danielneeds · Jan 5, 2014

spursbri111 said:
No problem with yesterdays result. we lost to a better team. at least we had a go and we were attacking we we got the opportunity. We used to say at least when we lost we played attacking football and was the case yesterday. I moaned about our style of play when avb was in charge and did nt really look forward to games. At least now I know we will have a go at scoring 3 of 4 in game even if we lose

So essentially you want us to return to the 90s? "Aving a go", what a fucking stupid sentiment. I want Spurs to win, and if that means playing cleverly and with caution sometimes, particularly away from home, so be it. That's what good teams do. I had no problem with AVB trying to change us to a more sophisticated style, until it became pretty obvious he was going nowhere.

jezz · Jan 5, 2014

millsey said:
They learnt from there errors over 20 years, not 4 games. Jesus

Really ask mourinho who regularly says i picked the wrong team.
Difference being he changes it at half time if it isnt working as do other top managers.

punkisback · Jan 5, 2014

Sarsipius said:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25531860

This is a link to the BBC match report.

It shows we had 54% of possession and 13 shots in total to their 14 (with 3 on target to their 5).

In the end we gifted them 1 goal and were cut open by one moment of attacking play where we got collectively mixed up.

The game I watched was a fast paced and open, and although we looked a little lacklustre from the start I wouldn't say Arsenal ripped us to pieces or even dominated us that heavily. Away from home I think it was our intention to mostly try hit them on the break and there's nothing wrong with that. It's called a game-plan.

Of course Sherwood is going to defend his team and decisions tonight. Very few managers just come out and say 'Oh yeah I got it all wrong tonight, sorry my bad'.

To be honest, with the condition of our players after the last fortnight's schedule I don't think any formation would have won us that game. Don't forget the other team are currently top of Premier League and not suffering from a recent over-haul in system and style.

I'm not saying tonight was good but I don't think it was as bad as many are making out here and if people are really pointing to tonight's game as proof of Sherwood's inability as a coach then I think they're clutching at straws in the hope of validating their agenda.

I have no particular affinity for Tim Sherwood but I'll defend anyone if I think they're being unfairly criticised.

Do you not think that them having an extra man in midfield only exacerbates our problems? If we had one more body in there to track runs and tackle defensively or provide an extra man for for the pass it would have helped. I'm not saying that Sherwood set us up to lose, but rather that he was a bit naive in thinking 4-4-2 would work against a team who are the best at keeping the ball in the league.

B0NZ0 · Jan 5, 2014

thinktank said:
The problem, forever, has been that we've continued with weak links, especially in critical positions.

It's precisely what I banged on about at the start of the season when we didn't sell Dawson and didn't upgrade on Naughton and Defoe.

It is seriously concerning that we continually fail to address this and never learn.

What idiot doesn't buy a left back in the summer???

Who doesn't see kaboul is now a sicknote and any long term injury to verts would leave us with an average Dawson as our go-to, leaving us in peril in a vital position???

Just baffling.

We can never truly progress as a club until we get the fundamentals right...and shockingly we still haven't sussed that, but continue to assert our ambition to be part of the elite.

It really is mad.

This may be the most overused term on this site but "we are not Man Shity or Chelski!" Only City can be looked upon as having no weak links IMO, the rest of the league have loads - even Arseholes.

On the LB situation we had Rose winning plaudits at Sunderland, Verts who did a tidy job there last year and Naught's who would never be first choice but in desperate stakes or cup competitions can fill in. then there was BAE, who we tried to shift, couldn't and hastily loaned out, in financial terms he is still a liability.

We tried for Coentrao, a strategy I agree with: buying better than you have, but I doubt he wanted to come with a probable pay cut. You suggest we should replace players at will but its never that easy and you sort one weakness and another will appear: that's life!

Buying players is not easy, evidenced by us paying over the odds for a few recently who are unlikely to prove value in the long term.

SpurSince57 · Jan 5, 2014

jezz said:
They learnt from there errors, has Tim?
Sounds a bit like AVB stubbornness and that turned out well.

He's been in the job how long?

CowInAComa · Jan 5, 2014

CrazyHeart said:
Dude, you make it sound like we couldn't do a goddamn thing under any circumstances against this Arsenal side! Forgive me, but even Gus Poyet wouldn't be as defeatist with his Sunderland squad.

Not really. I just think they won it because they were fresher, sharper and seemed more up for it than us all over the pitch. I dont therefore think it would have made much difference to have implemented a different formation or put capoue on.

I think we have to accept that on the day fatigue and injuries always had the game going away from us, and then we gifted them a goal. Nothing drains your legs faster than an uphill task.

It seems people have wanted to vent about Sherwood and his tactics for weeks but he not been found wanting, and so are now happily ignoring the fact the even if we were at full tilt, armed with the-worlds-greatest-tactics-ever, Arsenal at the emirates was always going to be a very difficult ask, just so that they could finally get the boot in.

Sweetsman · Jan 5, 2014

EnfieldYiddo said:
As sad as that is, what has that got to do with the match vs Arse?

Well, I didn't know where else to post it.

Sweetsman · Jan 5, 2014

Gaz_Gammon said:
Go back under the stone from where you crept and hug your photo of AVB. If anyone around here has a selective memory it's an AVB lover and he's your number one idol. Surprised you didn't mention that AVB let a very good CL experienced left back go out on loan. Still why let the facts get into the this love in of yours.

Are you talking about on BAE? If so, how come Spurs have said that they don't want him back?

CrazyHeart · Jan 5, 2014

CowInAComa said:
Not really. I just think they won it because they were fresher, sharper and seemed more up for it than us all over the pitch. I dont therefore think it would have made much difference to have implemented a different formation or put capoue on.

I think we have to accept that on the day fatigue and injuries always had the game going away from us, and then we gifted them a goal. Nothing drains your legs faster than an uphill task.

It seems people have wanted to vent about Sherwood and his tactics for weeks but he not been found wanting, and so are now happily ignoring the fact the even if we were at full tilt, armed with the-worlds-greatest-tactics-ever, Arsenal at the emirates was always going to be a very difficult ask, just so that finally get the boot in.

Sure fatigue comes into play here, but certainly you would agree that playing Adebayor was a huge risk, given the ice bath that TS personally offered to give him, in addition to playing Capoue instead of Bentaleb in a 4-3-3 would've contributed to a more fighting chance, even if it might not have won us the game.

jezz · Jan 5, 2014

SpurSince57 said:
He's been in the job how long?

And how long does he need to realize his mistakes?
Hes the manager, he wanted the job.
He said he was up for it and its a simple game.
Well show us how simple it is then.

CowInAComa · Jan 5, 2014

jezz said:
They learnt from there errors, has Tim?
Sounds a bit like AVB stubbornness and that turned out well.

That would have been his error against Man Utd? Or Stoke?

Or are you holding onto the first game under him, in which he had probably spent,what, 2-3 hours on the training pitch with them?

A bit desperate to base your argument on that.

Sweetsman · Jan 5, 2014

Gaz_Gammon said:
Go back under the stone from where you crept and hug your photo of AVB. If anyone around here has a selective memory it's an AVB lover and he's your number one idol. Surprised you didn't mention that AVB let a very good CL experienced left back go out on loan. Still why let the facts get into the this love in of yours.

You didn't answer the questions, because you can't. However, I'm not going to go crying to a moderator.

punkisback · Jan 5, 2014

rupsmith said:
I think there has been some poor analysis on here and on various sites. A few observations:

- Tim played Bentaleb because we did not retain the ball well versus united. While play was broken up in that game we gifted it back far too often and easily for Tim's liking and put us under immediate pressure. We actually got a bit lucky in that game. Webb usually gives them a penalty or two and the only reason he would even be given the chance to do so is if they have the ball and can drive in from the flanks. We won because of two attacks of real quality and managing to hang on defensively. It is perfectly reasonable for a coach to want to have better control over the game, which Tim clearly believes - and I personally fully support - is through better ball possession.

- the formation and the 'naive' 4-4-2 purely to leave his imprint on the style and set up of the team. Total bollocks. Adebayor and Soldado were not waiting in the box for crosses to come in - they were heavily involved in buildup play and were tracking back defensively. We created chances and kept the ball well - Bentaleb did a good job. Timmy encouraged Soldado to try to be creative and that showed - he is not a Defoe type box player. The reason we lost the game was because their possession and movement and work rate was top top notch and we simply tired and missed the chances we created (which were pretty decent - particularly Eriksens early on, Ade's in the second half when we were 1 down and Robbie should have been testing the keeper) . They have good players who seem like good guys as well - Santi Carzola gave Bentaleb a pat on the back towards the end. They aren't diving whining pricks like United and are in the top three for a reason.

We matched them and had a proper go at them. Yes they were the better team but we did not look out of place at all. Tim summed it up perfectly

"I am disappointed with the result, but we didn't disgrace ourselves.

"We showed we belong on the same field and in the same company as Arsenal.

"It has been six games in 17 days for us and we probably have the smallest squad in the league with the amount of injuries we have had.

"We were fatigued. A little bit of sharpness was missing but it could have gone either way.

"They showed great character and I am proud of them."

So am I - really happy with Tim and what he has done so far. Onwards and upwards. COYS!

Showing them too much respect, we've dominated them in several games in recent years, we're not plucky totteham; we were their equal last season.

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