Vertonghen: Poch's approach will come good

Real_madyidd · Nov 11, 2014

t-baggins said:
I harbour no ill feeling for our poor start to Pochettino. Simply put the squad we have put together is poor. We have a dreadful defence (goalkeeper aside) and if you can't keep clean sheets, and force the opposition into taking risks and pushing players forward you are going to struggle. I have said too often that our fullbacks are not nearly good enough, and the first two goals were our fullbacks getting caught out. Naughton shouldn't have tried to nip in and win it, as that left Kaboul and Fazio exposed and Stoke punished us... And Rose showed why he cannot be relied upon at this level yet as a fullback by getting very poorly caught out for the second.

I don't think Walker is the answer but he's a marked improvement on Naughton, shame we didm't properly address the LB problem, as if Davies can't start over Rose it says a lot.

Can't believe we let Sandro leave and kept Capoue... Mockery

I disagree partly with you.

We have a world class keeper.

Davies is a very good, full international left back
Verts is class
Dier a good centre back, who is still learning but should be playing
Walker is an England international/Naughton is backup. Yedlin coming in soon.

I think the problem (as you correctly say) is getting rid of Sandro and anyone who seems to care. Personally I would have kept Dawson, not for what he does on the pitch, but because he actually gave a shit. Also, sometimes you do need to get the ball forward quickly, we don't do that at all now.

JoeT · Nov 11, 2014

fedupyid said:
Poch is obsessed with a high line, we do not have the players who can play a high line. This is going to be his downfall in the long run.

Didn't we have another Manager who was obsessed with a high line? And the fact that the players didn't/couldn't play it was his downfall as well?
Pochetto has to sort this out and decide either it's the players who refuse to try to play this system, and if that's the case get rid of those who are the culprits; or recognize that the players are trying and it just won't work. If that is the case he is going to have to change his tactics...which might mean swallowing his pride and in the process becoming more a more flexible - and maybe better - Manager.
By not being sure of what to do his inexperience is showing....but we all know he is inexperienced; we knew that when he signed on as Manager, but that doesn't mean he can't learn and grow in the process.
As has been said, it's up to us to get behind him.But he has to get to grips with HIS team as well.

TottenhamMattSpur · Nov 11, 2014

If we ever want to be top 6 material again we need a new squad, new scouts, new trainers and probably a new coach :cautious:

whitesocks · Nov 11, 2014

That is very supportive of Vertonghen - if he wrote any of that.
In return MP sees him as 3rd choice CB.
It is strange that Vertonghen doesn't seem that bothered.

Main Man · Nov 11, 2014

The more I hear and read about Poch and his style makes justifies my initial assessment of him more and more.

He is a poor version of AVB.

This guy is going to set us back years if we are not careful. Time to act now.

Main Man · Nov 11, 2014

t-baggins said:
I have said too often that our fullbacks are not nearly good enough, and the first two goals were our fullbacks getting caught out. Naughton shouldn't have tried to nip in and win it, as that left Kaboul and Fazio exposed and Stoke punished us... And Rose showed why he cannot be relied upon at this level yet as a fullback by getting very poorly caught out for the second.

Can't believe we let Sandro leave and kept Capoue... Mockery

I think our central midfielders (or lack of) need to shoulder most of the blame for their first goal.

Rose did get caught out for the second yes, but the centre backs should still be marking their players!!

Asking these full backs to provide width is just a non-starter, they just don't have the brain capacity to function in such a role. Rose constantly gets caught out too high up the pitch, and Naughton always has some idiot in-front of him.

This is further indication for me that Poch doesn't know what he is doing.

You mention Sandro - Stoke's first goal would never have happened with him in the team.

TaoistMonkey · Nov 11, 2014

JoeT said:
Didn't we have another Manager who was obsessed with a high line? And the fact that the players didn't/couldn't play it was his downfall as well?

AVB's highline was perfect. We had the best defensive record in the league then injuries hit.

The players worked it very well and i was sick of hearing commentators etc say "ooo that was close, he was nearly onside". Well he fucking wasn't was he because we had the perfect offside trap.

I said this many times before and pretty bored that people still don't see it.

punky · Nov 11, 2014

Looks like they kissed and made up then.

Either that or he is telling to get as much game time before the bids come in...

Gaz_Gammon · Nov 11, 2014

fedupyid said:
Poch is obsessed with a high line, we do not have the players who can play a high line. This is going to be his downfall in the long run.

The vast majority of goals conceded have bugger all to do with playing a high line, pressing game, and everything to do with piss poor defending from midfield and defence.

Our downfall is the persistence of the coach in playing 4-2-3-1. It cost AVB his job and if results continue will likely do the same for Poch. Blind loyalty is something Levy does not do.

Gaz_Gammon · Nov 11, 2014

yido_number1 said:
It doesn't say it is a stats driven approach any where, it says he studies the opponent to see where they are most likely to try and hurt us. Studying your opponent and being prepared for what is coming is the minimum you should do.

Well after twenty odd games in charge if he doesn't know that one by now we truly are in deep shite.

CowInAComa · Nov 11, 2014

Gaz_Gammon said:
The vast majority of goals conceded have bugger all to do with playing a high line, pressing game, and everything to do with piss poor defending from midfield and defence.

Our downfall is the persistence of the coach in playing 4-2-3-1. It cost AVB his job and if results continue will likely do the same for Poch. Blind loyalty is something Levy does not do.

what formation do you propose?

4-4-2?

CowInAComa · Nov 11, 2014

TaoistMonkey said:
AVB's highline was perfect. We had the best defensive record in the league then injuries hit.

The players worked it very well and i was sick of hearing commentators etc say "ooo that was close, he was nearly onside". Well he fucking wasn't was he because we had the perfect offside trap.

I said this many times before and pretty bored that people still don't see it.

for about 5 games wasnt it.

TaoistMonkey · Nov 11, 2014

CowInAComa said:
for about 5 games wasnt it.

Prem games I think yeah. Pre season and cup games were also good.

CowInAComa · Nov 11, 2014

TaoistMonkey said:
Prem games I think yeah. Pre season and cup games were also good.

Not much a record in fairness. As soon as it was found out there was no plan b.

TaoistMonkey · Nov 11, 2014

CowInAComa said:
Not much a record in fairness. As soon as it was found out there was no plan b.

Didn't get "found out". The defence got week through injuries.

SteveH · Nov 11, 2014

Redfap said:
Most of the supporter base are not questioning Poch or his appointment, we are questioning the commitment, passion and effort shown by the playing group. It is disappointing. I'm not too bothered by not finishing 4th, or even finishing mid table, we are clearly at a stage of rebuilding etc, but what I (and I'm sure most other Spurs supporters) wont stand for is players who are not prepared to put in 100%. The biggest issue on the weekend wasn't a 4-2-3-1 formation or any crap like that, we lost because Stoke simply tried harder than us, they went in harder for the 50/50 balls and were prepared to put the mental application in and concentrate more.

If the players want to support the Manager, how about coming out and saying 'We didn't try hard enough, it was a gutless performance and we will promise our loyal fan base that from this point on, win, lose or draw you can be content knowing that we have given our absolute best.

Our most effective players this year have been Mason and Kane, why? Simple, because they are players who are eager to play, know their career is at a stage where they cant be complacent, they are excited to play, want to settle themselves at the club so they TRY THEIR BEST.

Not that bloody hard

Maybe the players just need Poch to come in and right proper peel the paint of the wall and make a stand, drop the players that aren't with him, even it means losing a few games, pick the ones that are prepared to put in 100% on match day. We are all sick of the obvious lack of effort.

If we aren't prepared to roll up our sleeves and put in a shift the club wont be turned around it will continue to stagnate and be inconsistent with no real purpose. Change for the sake of change doesn't work, there has to be progression and development.

End Rant

A noble piece.
But the bottom line is the vast majority of these player are going nowhere in the short term. So Poch has to get them functioning as a football team, as a top priority, get them at it. Its what coaches do.

In an ideal we could spend like United and even then here are no guarantees. The more I talk about our 'predicament' the more I keep thinking of what Pulis did at Palace last season...........

Gaz_Gammon · Nov 11, 2014

CowInAComa said:
what formation do you propose?

4-4-2?

a winning one, simply any other one because after a third of the season the current one isn't.

4-4-2 would suit me fine. Hasn't done Man Citeh too bad (though i do accept the gulf in talent).

TottenhamMattSpur · Nov 11, 2014

TaoistMonkey said:
AVB's highline was perfect. We had the best defensive record in the league then injuries hit.

The players worked it very well and i was sick of hearing commentators etc say "ooo that was close, he was nearly onside". Well he fucking wasn't was he because we had the perfect offside trap.

I said this many times before and pretty bored that people still don't see it.

You must have been watching different games to me.
We didn't have a good record because the defence was good. It was either Lloris or their strikers being crap.

TaoistMonkey · Nov 11, 2014

TottenhamMattSpur said:
You must have been watching different games to me.
We didn't have a good record because the defence was good. It was either Lloris or their strikers being crap.

Lloris is part of the defense. We push up and he sweeps up any chancers hitting us with a long ball.

CowInAComa · Nov 11, 2014

TaoistMonkey said:
Didn't get "found out". The defence got week through injuries.

Disagree. Allardyce did us up a kipper, as did Pardew

Gaz_Gammon said:
a winning one, simply any other one because after a third of the season the current one isn't.

4-4-2 would suit me fine. Hasn't done Man Citeh too bad (though i do accept the gulf in talent).

We would score twice as many goals with twice as many forwards right?

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