Ratings vs Chelsea

Bus-Conductor · Dec 4, 2014

Spursidol said:
The gamble was that by buying a 'good prospect' from an inferior league (and the Italien league is now very poor and less physical v Pl) he might be able to transfer his decent record in the Italian League to the PL.

Problem was that Baldini made the same gamble on Soldado (transfer a goal machine from a physically and defensively weak Spanish league ) to the PL.

Ditto Chirches.

As any one with any ounce of common sense can tell you, buying lots of players with the same gamble does not mitigate your risk - it magnifies it.

I'm hoping that Lamela makes it - but after the games the season, its clear it will take some time to coach him out of things like losimg the ball so much (a stat from a week or so ago was that he held the PL's worst stat on that), and physically he seems to need bulkng up - a ptrocess taking many months and far from guranteed to succeed, There are quite a few other issues he needs coaching in to be able to compete in PL - flaws which were covered up in the technically/slower inferior italkian league - and his total one footedness (which he tried to overcome with a Rabona) is something which is now unacceptable in Spurs Academy.

I understand the gamble - problem is the gamble at the price was one sided. If instantly successful a decent bet (but he's still only worth a £30m PL player), however as less than a great success. the gamble has failed. So for the gamble to succeed we need him to do MUCH better and live up to a £30m star - long way to go to do that.

The Spanish league isn't generally physically or defensively weaker than the EPL. Marginally more protection form refs maybe but it makes up for that in others by having better coached footballers.

Like there are great defenders knocking about the EPL.

The italian league is weaker than it was but it is not like it's some third world league all of a sudden. As we see when Roma go away to ManC for example.

Lamela has a better pass completion than Mason (according to whoscored he's 118th out of 275 players).He also has more assists than anyone in our team so far this season. Second highest key passes and sees twice as much ball as Lennon. For a 22yo effectively having his first season he's doing fine.

Of course the gamble was one sided, how many sides does a gamble normally have ? Di Maria has just gone for 60m+. I think you're estimation of what even moderate success might pay is out of date.

And he didn't cost £30m. I know it suited Tim's agenda to keep repeating this, knowing it not to be the case. He cost £25m GBP. Still a lot of money, but if you understand it at what you thought was £30m, you must be really happy with it at the real £25, no ?

Spursidol · Dec 4, 2014

Mr Pink said:
Its still too early.

Providing we continue to develop, in terms of what we saw on Sunday, we need to be patient and give Lamela more time.

Its been chaotic for him since he arrived, not just being injured for the majority of last season but the changing of managers and its only now that we're starting to see real signs of Pochettino's style coming through.

For me the clock starts now on Lamela, not August a year ago.

At the very least reserve judgement until the end of the season because I think we'll do well in the second half of the season and that will only help him. All of them will benefit more from playing in a structure that provides more cohesion and hopefully, fluid football.

As confidence grows with the collective, individuals will prosper more.

The time for Lamela started at the start of this season - not now, but his general understanding of the English language and his ability to watch Pl to see how its played, the physicality etc is now almost 18 months in..

14 games into the PL season (and EL/cup games) and Lamela seems to need a lot more time to live up to the consistent £30m star we thought we had bought. Its taking a long time.

jonathanhotspur · Dec 4, 2014

Mr Pink said:
Its still too early.

Providing we continue to develop, in terms of what we saw on Sunday, we need to be patient and give Lamela more time.

Its been chaotic for him since he arrived, not just being injured for the majority of last season but the changing of managers and its only now that we're starting to see real signs of Pochettino's style coming through.

For me the clock starts now on Lamela, not August a year ago.

At the very least reserve judgement until the end of the season because I think we'll do well in the second half of the season and that will only help him. All of them will benefit more from playing in a structure that provides more cohesion and hopefully, fluid football.

As confidence grows with the collective, individuals will prosper more.

It might be too early to write him off, Pinkerton, but it is reasonable to make some sort of assessment of his performance at this stage.

Spursidol · Dec 4, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
The Spanish league isn't generally physically or defensively weaker than the EPL. Marginally more protection form refs maybe but it makes up for that in others by having better coached footballers.

Like there are great defenders knocking about the EPL.

The italian league is weaker than it was but it is not like it's some third world league all of a sudden. As we see when Roma go away to ManC for example.

Lamela has a better pass completion than Mason (according to whoscored he's 118th out of 275 players).He also has more assists than anyone in our team so far this season. Second highest key passes and sees twice as much ball as Lennon. For a 22yo effectively having his first season he's doing fine.

Of course the gamble was one sided, how many sides does a gamble normally have ? Di Maria has just gone for 60m+. I think you're estimation of what even moderate success might pay is out of date.

And he didn't cost £30m. I know it suited Tim's agenda to keep repeating this, knowing it not to be the case. He cost £25m GBP. Still a lot of money, but if you understand it at what you thought was £30m, you must be really happy with it at the real £25, no ?

Sorry I diasagree - in the Spanish league, the defenders tend to give the forwards a loit more time. Huge adantage to a forward - and maybe that's Soldado's problem, he cannot quickly adopt to the faster game ? The PL is also more physical.

Ditto Italian League.

Try matching up the stats quoted with his loss of ball which in turn is a cause of Spurs goals - conceded. Its questionable then whether he is a net benefit or not. Its one of those traits he really has to cut out to improve

Spurs are not in a position to take that size of gamble on £30m (or if you believe £26m its 10% difference) - result that we have is that we have little option other than to try to play him so that either he comes good or he doesn't lose value if we sell. If he was a £10m purchase he would be at best on the bench.

SpurSince57 · Dec 4, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
Better than Lennon and Townsend, both of whom you think are crap?

Clearly better than Townsend, unless you're into head-down runs in the general direction of the corner flag and 25-yarders from Didier Zokora's 'Goalscoring My Way'. Lennon I have mixed feelings about: he's had a poor couple of seasons and simply hasn't lived up to his original promise, but still has a good deal to offer as a conventional winger. Lamela is, however, far more gifted technically.

double0 · Dec 4, 2014

Lamela was never the finished article and more potential. ..whats actually great about Lamela and generally most South Americans is his work rate...given time a goal here or there we have a match winner.

jonathanhotspur · Dec 4, 2014

SpurSince57 said:
Clearly better than Townsend, unless you're into head-down runs in the general direction of the corner flag and 25-yarders from Didier Zokora's 'Goalscoring My Way'. Lennon I have mixed feelings about: he's had a poor couple of seasons and simply hasn't lived up to his original promise, but still has a good deal to offer as a conventional winger. Lamela is, however, far more gifted technically.

It's a pity, then, that he can't translate that superior technical ability into goals and suchlike. I suppose we should start small and ask him not to keep running into cul-de-sacs.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 4, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
Better than Lennon and Townsend, both of whom you think are crap?

We'd be fucked if I thought he wasn't better than those two. You're really riding the buggery out of this one JH.

Spursidol · Dec 4, 2014

SpurSince57 said:
Clearly better than Townsend, unless you're into head-down runs in the general direction of the corner flag and 25-yarders from Didier Zokora's 'Goalscoring My Way'. Lennon I have mixed feelings about: he's had a poor couple of seasons and simply hasn't lived up to his original promise, but still has a good deal to offer as a conventional winger. Lamela is, however, far more gifted technically.

But I think lamela can take bits of each of them into his game - Lamela can go round outside his man to deliver a cross to vary his game, rather than always doing the 'inverted winger' thing and going into the centre - joining Soldado, Eriksen, Kane, Chadli and Uncle Tom Cobbley in an over congested central area. And that congestion is one reason why he's not scored in PL.

Needs coaching to cure that trait.

jonathanhotspur · Dec 4, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
We'd be fucked if I thought he wasn't better than those two. You're really riding the buggery out of this one JH.

The fuck do you mean, BC? I suspect an ulterior motive here. Do you think Lamela was AVB's choice?

Spursidol · Dec 4, 2014

double0 said:
Lamela was never the finished article and more potential. ..whats actually great about Lamela and generally most South Americans is his work rate...given time a goal here or there we have a match winner.

Its certainly apparant now that he's not the finished article

Shame we didn't buy a more finished article for the £30m spent - or pay half that amount for the unfinished player. .

Spursidol · Dec 4, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
The fuck do you mean, BC? I suspect an ulterior motive here. Do you think Lamela was AVB's choice?

According to Burt, AVB's most freindly journalist, Lamela was AVB's choice

jonathanhotspur · Dec 5, 2014

Spursidol said:
According to Burt, AVB's most freindly journalist, Lamela was AVB's choice

Yes, SS57's been trying to put me in the picture, Spursidol. What I am wondering is whether that is the real reason BC is bending over backwards to defend Lamela. Spending £30m on him will be killing him inside, I am sure.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

Spursidol said:
Sorry I diasagree - in the Spanish league, the defenders tend to give the forwards a loit more time. Huge adantage to a forward - and maybe that's Soldado's problem, he cannot quickly adopt to the faster game ? The PL is also more physical.

Ditto Italian League.

Try matching up the stats quoted with his loss of ball which in turn is a cause of Spurs goals - conceded. Its questionable then questionable whether he is a net benefit or not. Its one of those traits he really has to cut out to improve

Spurs are not in a position to take that size of gamble on £30m (or if you believe £26m its 10% difference) - result that we have is that we have little option other than to try to play him so that either he comes good or he doesn't lose value if we sell. If he was a £10m purchase he would be at best on the bench.

I guess In this case, we were in a position to gamble 25m (30m is 25m + 20%) as we'd just banked 80m profit on Bale.

If you want to do an analysis of whose carelessness or work-shyness or laziness has cost goals I think Lamela will come out OK. We all know he makes the odd mistake, but he is certainly not alone.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
Yes, SS57's been trying to put me in the picture, Spursidol. What I am wondering is whether that is the real reason BC is bending over backwards to defend him. Spending that £30m on Lamela will be killing BC inside, I am sure.

£25m.

Are you telling me you'd rather be watching Lennon or Townsend ?

Spursidol · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
£25m.

Are you telling me you'd rather be watching Lennon or Townsend ?

I'd prefer to watch a player worth the £25m...or £30m we paid for Lamela ...rather than one requiring extensive coaching.

jonathanhotspur · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
£25m.

Are you telling me you'd rather be watching Lennon or Townsend ?

I'm saying I wish we hadn't bought a player who might take 5 seasons to find his feet. If he ever does.

You can get bloody good players for decent money-Eriksen's a great example of that.

Spursidol · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
I guess In this case, we were in a position to gamble 25m (30m is 25m + 20%) as we'd just banked 80m profit on Bale.

If you want to do an analysis of whose carelessness or work-shyness or laziness has cost goals I think Lamela will come out OK. We all know he makes the odd mistake, but he is certainly not alone.

Unfortunately, if you had read my earlier posts, and virtually every post on SC, someone decided to bet the whole £80m (or is it £100m) we received for Bale on players - all with one common risk. no PL experience. And surely even you will not try to convince Sc that we got good value after the start we have had this season (or the whole of last season) ?

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
The fuck do you mean, BC? I suspect an ulterior motive here. Do you think Lamela was AVB's choice?

I think he was absolutely (ex-Roma DOF) Baldini's baby. I know we've been told by Burt that AVB approved him, but I reckon Baldini was the one pushing Lamela, maybe even at his interview with Levy for the job.

What's my ulterior motive ?

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
I'm saying I wish we hadn't bought a player who might take 5 seasons to find his feet. If he ever does.

You can get bloody good players for decent money-Eriksen's a great example of that.

Do you regret we signed Bale ?

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