$hoguN
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And I'd be willing to bet that there wouldn't be too many complaints if you had those 'outs' spot-on
I would be sad about Soldado, but the rest…...
The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 31st December 2014
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I would be sad about Soldado, but the rest…...
XSuicideBunnyX
FM Champion 2015
- Aug 3, 2013
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I'd also be sad to see Naughton go - he's been with us a fair while, and is one of the better back-up RBs in the league, and could easily start for a mid-table team. But if we're bringing in Yedlin, he'll need to go.
$hoguN
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Sorry mate, but he is not one of the better right back in the league. The lad is very average. I obviously wish him luck in the future, but we need to move him on to create opportunities for younger players, much in the same way we need to move on players like Jenas and Defoe imo
XSuicideBunnyX
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One of the better back-ups = average starter
I agree that we need to get rid, but he clearly works hard and seems like a nice fella from social media. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Yedlin can bring in his role. Much more Walker-lite than Naughton is.
dovahkiin
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more from ali z, sounds a bit like summing up paper rumours but anyway: As for players out a few clubs have enquired about Soldado, none on Ade, a firm bid place for Lamela (not accepted) interest in two mentioned plus Townsend and Pauli, none in Kaboom or Capoue.
steve
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- Oct 21, 2003
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Parker i'll give you without doubt but I doubt Pinky considers him old guard. Huddlestone and Livermore I don't agree with, both were short on quality and Tom wasn't big on tenacity most of the time.
A big squad overhaul was always gonna cause issues but the process started by AVB and being continued by Poch in terms of mentality is the right one. We may have bought badly in terms of mentality but suggesting we may have faired better with the likes of the two you mention is wide of the mark.
We needed a strong manager with personality and crucially the board standing firm and backing his decisions to the hilt. Thankfully that's started to happen.
A big squad overhaul was always gonna cause issues but the process started by AVB and being continued by Poch in terms of mentality is the right one. We may have bought badly in terms of mentality but suggesting we may have faired better with the likes of the two you mention is wide of the mark.
We needed a strong manager with personality and crucially the board standing firm and backing his decisions to the hilt. Thankfully that's started to happen.
CoopsieDeadpool
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- Jun 8, 2012
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Yep me too mate. Even though I know deep inside that it's just not going to work for him, there's such a big part of me that is so desperate for him to come good
DaSpurs
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The question is not quality, but rather mentality. I agree that on paper players such as Paulinho and Capoue looked better at the time than Thudd and Livermore, but it was the combination of so many loose parts without a core that led to our demise. I think we should have sold one, but not both. I'd absolutely have kept Livermore as he was clearly on an upward trajectory, proven himself a Prem-capable player, and I think absolutely would have fared better than Capoue has done. I think we allowed it so early because Poch retained hope of bringing in Schneiderlin and had yet to fully assess Capoue. As is, we got a bit unlucky with Sandro not being fully fit (of course), Schneiderlin not working out, and finally Capoue falling out of the fold for whatever reason.
So while I don't suggest we would have fared better had we kept both of them, I do think we've seen the evidence of what happens when you completely disregard squad mentality and chemistry for the sake of adding quality on paper. We have given far too little consideration to these respects, as well as compatibility, with too much towards potential and quality and as a result we have suffered for it. We've only just now turned it around, or else the Spurs Chat section would still be flooded with comments pertaining to it.
Mr Pink
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I was hoping that he'd mature under the right guidance, and become a very useful squad option for us - not just making up the numbers because he's been here for a decade.
That's my take anyway.
0-Tibsy-0
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Thank fuck.
He will tear this league up when he finally gets up his best.
Optimistic perhaps...
But I have such high hopes for this guy that I'm glad it doesnt seem like we are entertaining any idea of selling him before his full quality has been shown...
steve
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Livermore has a decent mentality and would make a useful squad player and I agree the mentality hasn't been right but I think it was less to do with who we shipped out and more to do with who we brought in from a mentality point of view. We lost Bale remember, just having him on the pitch was massive in every regard.
I don't think Livermore is as good as you make out, I liked him, but he was a jack of all trades master of none and his mentality wasn't enough to make up for this. I also think he wanted regular footy which he wasn't gonna get at Spurs.
We need a squad of hungry, talented footballers and anyone who doesn't fulfill that should be moved on if possible. I'll give you Huddlestone was hungry but not in the way you mention.
DaSpurs
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I like the player and hope you're right, but I'd be surprised to see us turn down an offer over 20 mil that the player would be interested in. Good offer for a player who seems to still struggle with the physicality of the Premier League, and would certainly help with making other additions/a replacement. We're also snug tight up against the non-HG limit, so if Poch wants other players more compatible with his system elsewhere, I could see him being amenable to the idea.
I don't want him out mind you, just think it's possible.
Greenspur
Very old member
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Surely, even Alabama has outlawed servitude?
DaSpurs
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When did I say Huddlestone was hungry? I don't think he was ever hungry for improvement, but he did provided solidity. Nonetheless, I'd have sold him as we did. Was simply not quick enough for what we needed per our own aspirations.
I also never said Livermore was particular quality, but I rather said that I think he'd have fared better than his replacement has. I stand by that remark, and especially because of that inclusion of mentality upgrade. It's no coincidence he was never turned over by anyone, and his replacements were crushed relentlessly by the top sides in the league last season.
Bale was a massive loss and that absence entirely killed our offensive flow, but I don't think he was as vital to our mentality as was say Parker. He inspired belief, but not resolve against the odds and will to fight.
CornerPinDreamer
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steve
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Livermore didn't play in the team that got mauled on occasion last season. Do you think he'd have made any difference?
So outside of Parker who we agree on (but was past his best) who else in terms of old school players did we miss? Who would've made the difference in terms of mentality? Outside of the obvious ones (King, VDV)?
DaSpurs
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That's exactly my point that Livermore wasn't there, and yes I think he would've. I don't think he'd have changed the results as they were marked in the table, but I do think he would have at least prevented the capitulations.
So other than Parker (and I agree he was certainly past his best, I don't fault us for replacing him but I fault us for entirely removing that core without any replacements with mind towards mentality), I'd have kept Livermore and would have tried to keep Daws over Kaboul. I think he'd have stayed to fight for a place and rotate with the squad, and couldn't have done any worse than Kaboul did earlier this season. Add the additional mentality and leadership contribution, and it's no question for me.
TheAmerican
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I have a feeling that both Kaboul and Ade will sit out their contracts. BAE parts 2 & 3.
Everlasting Seconds
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Since Paulinho is mentioned in ITK today....
Goodbye Little Paul
Though I never knew you at all
You had the grace to hold yourself
While those around you missed the ball
You shot it in the woodwork
And they whispered around the lane
They set you on the treadmill
And they hardly sung yourname
chorus:
And it seems to me you played your game
Like a candle in the wind
Never knowing who to cling to
When the rain set in
And I would have liked to have known you
But I was just a fan
At Spurs you burned out long before
Your potential wasn't common lore
Box-to-box was tough
The toughest role you ever played
Transfer news created a superstar
And pain was the price you paid
Even when you scored
Oh the fans still hounded you
All the papers had to say
Was that Paulinho hit a fluke
(repeat chorus)
Goodbye Little Paul
Though I never knew you at all
You had the grace to hold yourself
While those around missed the ball
Goodbye Paulinho
From the young man in the 22nd row
Who sees you as something more than failure
More than just our half of a Brazilian
Goodbye Little Paul
Though I never knew you at all
You had the grace to hold yourself
While those around you missed the ball
You shot it in the woodwork
And they whispered around the lane
They set you on the treadmill
And they hardly sung yourname
chorus:
And it seems to me you played your game
Like a candle in the wind
Never knowing who to cling to
When the rain set in
And I would have liked to have known you
But I was just a fan
At Spurs you burned out long before
Your potential wasn't common lore
Box-to-box was tough
The toughest role you ever played
Transfer news created a superstar
And pain was the price you paid
Even when you scored
Oh the fans still hounded you
All the papers had to say
Was that Paulinho hit a fluke
(repeat chorus)
Goodbye Little Paul
Though I never knew you at all
You had the grace to hold yourself
While those around missed the ball
Goodbye Paulinho
From the young man in the 22nd row
Who sees you as something more than failure
More than just our half of a Brazilian
steve
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- Oct 21, 2003
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Dawson was here last season during those capitulations. And in previous ones.
I don't agree re Livermore at all, decent, puts himself about but he's at Hull for a reason along with Huddlestone and Dawson fighting relegation. We'd have been better against the likes of Liverpool? Conjecture with little evidence to back it up.
Going back to Pinky's lament about the last of the old guard going I think it was more a nostalgic look at times past (which I understand) and a point towards the clubs long servers such as Daws, Hudd, Lennon, and Defoe. Can't say I miss or will miss any of them from a footballing or mentality point of view.
Players with a strong mentality and very good technical ability are pretty rare and not easy to find at the prices and wages we're willing to pay. Like I said I agree I think the players we brought in have lacked a strong mentality but I think it's fair to say we lacked it before then and if Jake Livermore was the difference then we really were in trouble. He wasn't.
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