I know I've more or less ignored the discussion which is meant to be reviewing Pochettino's season - but I think its important to remember and accept that it will take more that 2-3 years to get us back into the top 4. Sacking Poch will just restart the cycle again.
Poch Performance Review
- Thread starter NickHSpurs
- Start date
iluvsteffenfreund
Well-Known Member
- Nov 5, 2004
- 2,078
- 2,465
An example that infuriated me... We play Newcastle away and win, paulinho gets man of the match and we play well. Next game he misses because of his wife giving birth and we draw with an average performance and a goal gifted to them by his replacement. Following game he's on the bench and his replacement(mason) has another shocker and is subbed. We lose the game. Following game he is still on bench and mason plays again and guess what has another shocker!!!! I mean WTF !!?? It's beyond clueless
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
Maybe we should have gone for a manager who won trophies in another country, what about a manager who has won Europa should we try that as well?
Blackcanary
Dame sans merci
- Jul 15, 2012
- 5,621
- 12,170
Actually, I think he was completely absent from the squad, wasn't he? We'll probably find out why in approximately 2022...
Danners9
Available on a Free Transfer
- Mar 30, 2004
- 14,018
- 20,807
My faith in him is wobbling.
I accept it's a(nother) transition season as he tries to make this team his own and the backroom staff should/might/could help, if he can get rid of a whole forest of dead wood and bring in the players he wants then that'll be great.
However, he's an ex-defender and our defence is shambolic. I would have thought this would have been addressed by now - although maybe with the players always out injured it's not been possible to settle on a group. Them's the breaks, though. Saturday was a joke, and it's been like this for a while. The chopping and changing of centre backs isn't encouraging. Are they ALL crap? even teams like WBA and Palace can defend as a group.
I don't see much of a style to our play. Give it to Kane. Oh, he's triple marked.. nothing then. Concede a goal, instead.
I don't see the slack attitude has changed. Since the Capital One Cup final, we've been shocking. Did they just give up? and if so, the manager has to be the one to keep them focused.
I can't work out why Mason is being run into the ground and Dembele seemingly ignored. Some of the team selections are strange. I understand that the squad is a patchwork of other manager's mistakes, and that needs correcting - it's a sign of the failure that has run throughout the club for a few years now.
I am all for stability, if it's the right person. Poch might be, but I am on the fence right now and we all know what will happen if next season starts slowly... Right now I have no confidence of getting a result on Saturday.
I accept it's a(nother) transition season as he tries to make this team his own and the backroom staff should/might/could help, if he can get rid of a whole forest of dead wood and bring in the players he wants then that'll be great.
However, he's an ex-defender and our defence is shambolic. I would have thought this would have been addressed by now - although maybe with the players always out injured it's not been possible to settle on a group. Them's the breaks, though. Saturday was a joke, and it's been like this for a while. The chopping and changing of centre backs isn't encouraging. Are they ALL crap? even teams like WBA and Palace can defend as a group.
I don't see much of a style to our play. Give it to Kane. Oh, he's triple marked.. nothing then. Concede a goal, instead.
I don't see the slack attitude has changed. Since the Capital One Cup final, we've been shocking. Did they just give up? and if so, the manager has to be the one to keep them focused.
I can't work out why Mason is being run into the ground and Dembele seemingly ignored. Some of the team selections are strange. I understand that the squad is a patchwork of other manager's mistakes, and that needs correcting - it's a sign of the failure that has run throughout the club for a few years now.
I am all for stability, if it's the right person. Poch might be, but I am on the fence right now and we all know what will happen if next season starts slowly... Right now I have no confidence of getting a result on Saturday.
Look his not good, his tactical decision making is very confusing his man management is questionable. We are just wasting time if we keep him next year.Maybe we should have gone for a manager who won trophies in another country, what about a manager who has won Europa should we try that as well?
kremlyn
Well-Known Member
- Jul 30, 2004
- 1,827
- 2,814
Since a great many of the posts here seem to have been written in a hyperbolic lens of the last few weeks, I thought it might be useful to reflect using the lens of the long term plan we prayed for when we brought Poch in.
2014-2015 Objectives:
Objective 1. Work with previous signings purchased with Bale money and see if there are any players there worth keeping, try and get the best out of them.
Performance 8/10:
We knew when we got Poch that he plays a systemic brand of football and he would suffer a pretty tough season trying to establish who would make it and who wouldn't. From that point of view he should have given everyone a chance. He did. Some of the players simply couldn't do it and top of the list was Capoue who is far too lumbering to play the press. We play a high press so concentration is a must for central defenders: Kaboul and Chiriches didn't make it. Chadli was utter gash last season but was transformed until his father died. Eriksen learned to run and press exceptionally. Soldado stayed honest despite the fact that this system again doesn't work for him. Lamela worked his socks off and has recently shown signs of being productive, so much so that I wonder if he might be played at 10. Paulinho has been remarkably professional and I think started to get better recently. In short we've sorted the wheat from the chaff here and the players and management now know what to expect from this summer.
Objective 2: Work with younger players and continue to bring them through.
Performance 8/10: The faith shown in youth has been remarkable. Mason showed he could cut it in preseason and was selected. Bentaleb has blossomed. Dier supplanted his international colleagues. Rose - wow. Townsend did well up to a point despite being unsuitable for the system. He's taken a few players from the youth set up to training and on the bench. Kane - he bedded him in in the right way Imo, giving the senior players enough of a chance before letting Kane start in the premiership. Kane earned his spurs and he had to earn them the hard way. We've benefited ever since.
Objective 3: Manager new signings
Performance 5/10: Eric Dier has been a total success. Fazio was a late replacement for Mussachio and was a sensible move on paper; solid, experienced.. He hasn't the pace for the system but he has not lost his market value and may well be a useful player yet. Stambouli was similar ; we didn't get ms so needed an experienced do. Again not quite right for the system but a pro and a good insurance purchase for the season.
I refuse to judge Poch harshly for his signings so far. Levy would have wanted to see if he was worth investing in and had this season to make his decision. I suspect he has liked what he has seen and will back him with more confidence this summer. Judge him next year.
Objective 4: Team Performance
Performance 5/10:
How soon we forget. During the Christmas period we had found our form and went on an excellent run. Players get the system. Players are fit. We looked great. We have to accept that playing this system is exhausting so given that half the squad couldn't or wouldn't play it there have been cases of fatigue, especially in Eriksen. There have been periods when unsuitable players have been used and our form has suffered. There has been an outcry from many about his tactical inflexibility but what was the aim of this year? To get the players to play this way or leave. As far as I'm concerned our aim was EL qualification and to bed in the managers ideas. Surely by that measure he has over achieved? A cup final, in the running for CL...
Concerns:
Manager must keep hold of his best players this summer. I include Lamela and Vertonghen in this as well as Lloris.
2015/2016 Objectives:
Objective 1: Identify players surplus to requirements, bring in some experience to mix with youth and look at players more adaptable to style manager wishes to play.
Objective 2: Continue to look at youth and integrate the likes of Ali and Pritchard.
Objective 3: stick to his guns and get players he knows will suit his system. At least one cm, one striker and one winger.
With the perspective of hindsight, this has been a constructive season and should be a good foundation for next year if we do well in the market.
2014-2015 Objectives:
Objective 1. Work with previous signings purchased with Bale money and see if there are any players there worth keeping, try and get the best out of them.
Performance 8/10:
We knew when we got Poch that he plays a systemic brand of football and he would suffer a pretty tough season trying to establish who would make it and who wouldn't. From that point of view he should have given everyone a chance. He did. Some of the players simply couldn't do it and top of the list was Capoue who is far too lumbering to play the press. We play a high press so concentration is a must for central defenders: Kaboul and Chiriches didn't make it. Chadli was utter gash last season but was transformed until his father died. Eriksen learned to run and press exceptionally. Soldado stayed honest despite the fact that this system again doesn't work for him. Lamela worked his socks off and has recently shown signs of being productive, so much so that I wonder if he might be played at 10. Paulinho has been remarkably professional and I think started to get better recently. In short we've sorted the wheat from the chaff here and the players and management now know what to expect from this summer.
Objective 2: Work with younger players and continue to bring them through.
Performance 8/10: The faith shown in youth has been remarkable. Mason showed he could cut it in preseason and was selected. Bentaleb has blossomed. Dier supplanted his international colleagues. Rose - wow. Townsend did well up to a point despite being unsuitable for the system. He's taken a few players from the youth set up to training and on the bench. Kane - he bedded him in in the right way Imo, giving the senior players enough of a chance before letting Kane start in the premiership. Kane earned his spurs and he had to earn them the hard way. We've benefited ever since.
Objective 3: Manager new signings
Performance 5/10: Eric Dier has been a total success. Fazio was a late replacement for Mussachio and was a sensible move on paper; solid, experienced.. He hasn't the pace for the system but he has not lost his market value and may well be a useful player yet. Stambouli was similar ; we didn't get ms so needed an experienced do. Again not quite right for the system but a pro and a good insurance purchase for the season.
I refuse to judge Poch harshly for his signings so far. Levy would have wanted to see if he was worth investing in and had this season to make his decision. I suspect he has liked what he has seen and will back him with more confidence this summer. Judge him next year.
Objective 4: Team Performance
Performance 5/10:
How soon we forget. During the Christmas period we had found our form and went on an excellent run. Players get the system. Players are fit. We looked great. We have to accept that playing this system is exhausting so given that half the squad couldn't or wouldn't play it there have been cases of fatigue, especially in Eriksen. There have been periods when unsuitable players have been used and our form has suffered. There has been an outcry from many about his tactical inflexibility but what was the aim of this year? To get the players to play this way or leave. As far as I'm concerned our aim was EL qualification and to bed in the managers ideas. Surely by that measure he has over achieved? A cup final, in the running for CL...
Concerns:
Manager must keep hold of his best players this summer. I include Lamela and Vertonghen in this as well as Lloris.
2015/2016 Objectives:
Objective 1: Identify players surplus to requirements, bring in some experience to mix with youth and look at players more adaptable to style manager wishes to play.
Objective 2: Continue to look at youth and integrate the likes of Ali and Pritchard.
Objective 3: stick to his guns and get players he knows will suit his system. At least one cm, one striker and one winger.
With the perspective of hindsight, this has been a constructive season and should be a good foundation for next year if we do well in the market.
iluvsteffenfreund
Well-Known Member
- Nov 5, 2004
- 2,078
- 2,465
It's ridiculous, it's probably because he didn't win the running in training
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
Yeah and as I said we need to show a bit of patience with him, I have no qualms with people questioning him yet you want him sacked, and for what?
Continually picking Mason?
Not picking Dembele
Not changing formation and being flexible
Come off it mate
THFCSPURS19
The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
- Jan 6, 2013
- 37,901
- 130,571
I'd love to see if there's anyone on here who said he needs to be given time when he was appointed, but is now questioning his position.
DiscoD1882
SC Supporter
- Mar 27, 2006
- 6,999
- 14,922
people dont want to hear this.
- Feb 1, 2005
- 55,716
- 206,121
- Admin
- #112
Here you go, knock yourself out
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...-has-been-confirmed-as-manager-thread.108916/
My biggest problem is we have fans saying are squad is not good and wait for his players, I disagree I think are squad is very good but poch has not brought the best out of them, which is a managers job.
Maintained Europa league qualification, and got to a cup final. This is what I had in my mind at the start of the season as an acceptable 1st season.
I would want to see progress next season in the form of better performances. I would like to try and improve our goal difference at the very least.
I would want to see progress next season in the form of better performances. I would like to try and improve our goal difference at the very least.
Everlasting Seconds
Well-Known Member
- Jan 9, 2014
- 14,914
- 26,616
After his appointment was declared, I wanted to believe he would deserve time, and I wanted him to prove that he deserved time. We were a split fan base, and we needed to be united, and we needed some optimism. So yeah, I expressed a desire to be able to gather optimism if nothing else.
Still, I'm not tremendously opposed to giving him more time (at the very least the same amount of time given to AVB), but I think numerous arguments for why he should be given more time are fictitious, or at the very least quite – creative.
Everlasting Seconds
Well-Known Member
- Jan 9, 2014
- 14,914
- 26,616
I'm a bit over down to earth goals, especially bearing in mind that the reasons for hiring a new head coach in general, and Pochettino specifically, were not sober at all. I think we should go opposite of sober, and set one hairy goals a mantra for next season, one objective that coaches, players and fans can identify with. Winning EL as a goal would be quite sufficient for me. If failing that goal, then at least fail with an echo of glory.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
Maybe some of those players don't want to be motivated, maybe some of those players are beyond repair, maybe some of those players refuse to buy into his philosophy.
Which is why people keep stressing you need to give the manager time, no point in sacking him just because he's not getting the best out of the team when ultimately you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
Why do you think Levy wanted a young manager to stick around?
Why do you think Levy gave him a 5 year contract?
Why do you think that he's bought in Paul Mitchell?
What do you think we are trying to achieve by hiring a manager to bring through youngsters from the academy?
We have a plan in place which isn't going to happen overnight and we are nearly a year into that plan, sacking the manager is only going to set us back another year.
mpickard2087
Patient Zero
- Jun 13, 2008
- 21,908
- 32,636
That's not necessarily mutually exclusive. I'll just go on my own thoughts, but I believe managers should get two seasons before you start making decisions as to whether they should lose their job. So I think Poch should get a second season, and it will be 12 months before I'd want him gone, but that doesn't mean I cant criticise and with the evidence available to me so far be afraid to say where I think he needs to buck his ideas up and that if we don't get improvement in certain areas then he is digging his own grave.
As an example, I think Poch's tactical understanding of the game and nous when it comes to selecting teams (both shape + individual selections), changing things up in game, and patterns of play both in attack and particularly defence are absolutely woeful so far. I know a lot of fans don't put much stock in tactics, their eyes glaze over and they switch off when it comes to discussion about it, sticking to the belief that its the players on the pitch that get it done, but I feel its a facet of management that has quite a deal of importance. It's also something that you either understand and 'see', or you don't. If Poch is weak at it now, then I don't see him improving in this aspect.
