The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 23rd June 2015

dovahkiin · Jun 23, 2015

ali z on dentral defenders: From what I hear only actively looking to shift Kaboul and Chirches ...though might sell Fazio for the right offer.

SpartanSpur · Jun 23, 2015

TheAmerican said:
Have you watched an entire game of his? Marseille set up the same exact way that we do, as Poch's system is based on Bielsa's. Imbula is at the center of most play. He wins the ball and begins the drive forward. Marseille often attack very quick, Imbula in no way impairs their counter-attack speed (he often starts these attacks).

Have you based your opinion entirely on highlight videos? It's not really an effective way to judge a player like a CDM, as the best players often have to do the least amount of work due to their positional intelligence and lack of mistakes. Those youtube videos will of course show him shielding the ball and driving past players like Dembele does. But, they will not show how Romao was in trouble, so he dumped the ball to a well covered Imbula who then dribbled his way out of trouble and passed the ball on, continuing the play. His teammates trust him and he carries the middle of the field. He shows incredible football intelligence and leadership for a 22 year old. He is also very tactically responsible, which is why he has flourished under Bielsa. He presses well and tracks players through the midfield. He is also, in fact, a very good passer. He's not the sideways passing nightmare that Dembele is. The weak part of his game is finishing, but in a system that relies on goals from the wingers and striker, it is not all that great a loss.

He is very different from any player that we have. While he is not all that similar to Schneiderlin (Kramer is more-so), he is similar in the right ways. I would say he ticks all the appropriate boxes, and trust our scouting team that he does as well. He knows where to sit in the midfield, he knows how to keep the play moving, he is defensively responsible and he isn't mistake prone. He isn't a deep lying playmaker, but we aren't looking for one. He is, however, a damn better option to pair next to Bentaleb than any of our current lot.

This analysis would allay my fears somewhat. He clearly is a big talent however I just worry that him and Bentaleb would not resolve our issue of lack of cover for the cbs. Whereas kramer and schneiderlin seem to be better suited to that.

What is imbula's passing vision like? Both Ms and kramer seem happy to move the ball forward quickly, whereas Imbula being so comfortable in possession suggests he won't be. Not many players possess both traits. Modric being one of them.

I just worry we'd be buying a real talent but not for the right purpose. There's a reason we seem to have a higher failure rate than most clubs...

Young Nasty Man · Jun 23, 2015

TheAmerican said:
Have you watched an entire game of his? Marseille set up the same exact way that we do, as Poch's system is based on Bielsa's. Imbula is at the center of most play. He wins the ball and begins the drive forward. Marseille often attack very quick, Imbula in no way impairs their counter-attack speed (he often starts these attacks).

Have you based your opinion entirely on highlight videos? It's not really an effective way to judge a player like a CDM, as the best players often have to do the least amount of work due to their positional intelligence and lack of mistakes. Those youtube videos will of course show him shielding the ball and driving past players like Dembele does. But, they will not show how Romao was in trouble, so he dumped the ball to a well covered Imbula who then dribbled his way out of trouble and passed the ball on, continuing the play. His teammates trust him and he carries the middle of the field. He shows incredible football intelligence and leadership for a 22 year old. He is also very tactically responsible, which is why he has flourished under Bielsa. He presses well and tracks players through the midfield. He is also, in fact, a very good passer. He's not the sideways passing nightmare that Dembele is. The weak part of his game is finishing, but in a system that relies on goals from the wingers and striker, it is not all that great a loss.

He is very different from any player that we have. While he is not all that similar to Schneiderlin (Kramer is more-so), he is similar in the right ways. I would say he ticks all the appropriate boxes, and trust our scouting team that he does as well. He knows where to sit in the midfield, he knows how to keep the play moving, he is defensively responsible and he isn't mistake prone. He isn't a deep lying playmaker, but we aren't looking for one. He is, however, a damn better option to pair next to Bentaleb than any of our current lot.

You mention something that I failed to consider previously which is the importance of the transition into the system. I truly believe a majority of the people on these forums are YouTube scouts, and it drives me nuts. I really don't know much about Imbula with the exception of what I read or watch online. The one argument that deem him more valuable for Spurs is the fact that he played under Bielsa. This must have explained the Ayew ITK (before he signed with Swansea) from a few weeks ago, and the potential sale of Stambouli to Marseille that I had read in some articles (also I read his dad is involved with that club somehow). Wouldn't be surprised if we swap players with them in the future based on the managers.

Knowing what levy looks for in a player (youth, value, skillset, room for growth) Imbula checks off those boxes (can someone share his reported fee?). More importantly, he must seem like an easier transition to the team vs Kramer, based on his experience playing for Bielsa. I don't think he is better than Kramer by any means (however I don't know much about either minus a Bob Ley ESPN discussion when he was knocked out; those are simply irrelevant), but it seems like Poch rates the knowledge of his system and hustle over anything else when evaluating.

Would love to know what Mitchell's input has been thus far and his impact on scouting certain players @TrickyVilla @JJetset......

yankspurs · Jun 23, 2015

dovahkiin said:
ali z on dentral defenders: From what I hear only actively looking to shift Kaboul and Chirches ...though might sell Fazio for the right offer.

I'm begging. Anyone. Please. If you have a heart. Please take Kaboul and Chiriches from us. As well as Ade and Capoue. And Paulinho. And Lennon. Please.

Sincerely,
Spurs fans everywhere

mikeeegreen · Jun 23, 2015

yankspurs said:
I'm begging. Anyone. Please. If you have a heart. Please take Kaboul and Chiriches from us. As well as Ade and Capoue. And Paulinho. And Lennon. Please.

Sincerely,
Spurs fans everywhere

I think all of those will be incredibly difficult to shift. I just hope the last ITK piece about players coming in regardless of outgoings is true. Otherwise we really are screwed. A lot of these players are going to hang on tooth and nail as they know we are as good as they will get.

mikeeegreen · Jun 23, 2015

@KingSandro I have no idea you rated my post as "WTF" as the issue I spoke about is easily recognisable and has been a major problem of ours for a few seasons now.

Young Nasty Man · Jun 23, 2015

mikeeegreen said:
I think all of those will be incredibly difficult to shift. I just hope the last ITK piece about players coming in regardless of outgoings is true. Otherwise we really are screwed. A lot of these players are going to hang on tooth and nail as they know we are as good as they will get.

I can't believe one of those players was considered a captain one time....

PhezTHFC · Jun 23, 2015

@TheAmerican I must say the explanation has convinced me I want no one but Imbula lol! But seriously was good reading from someone watching those games and allaying fears he isn't as well equipped. If what you say is true Imbula certainly isn't as bad as eat people are making it out to be.

Living Legend Colm G · Jun 23, 2015

yankspurs said:
I'm begging. Anyone. Please. If you have a heart. Please take Kaboul and Chiriches from us. As well as Ade and Capoue. And Paulinho. And Lennon. Please.

Sincerely,
Spurs fans everywhere

Not too bothered about Lennon leaving as I still think he can do a job. And I know I'm in the minority, but it's a real shame about Capoue. It's obviously an attitude problem cos purely in footballing terms, I think there is a beast of a player there and I've always been impressed with him on the pitch.

Geyzer Soze · Jun 23, 2015

Joshua said:
Stambouli is the French Holtby, he tries hard but the talent isn't there. There's a reason he was behind Mason, Bentaleb, Dembele and even Paulinho last season. Imbula is an upgrade on him at least imo.

4 league starts, 8 sub appearances and 7 cup appearances and you can say that? pfft.

mikeeegreen · Jun 23, 2015

Living Legend Colm G said:
Not too bothered about Lennon leaving as I still think he can do a job. And I know I'm in the minority, but it's a real shame about Capoue. It's obviously an attitude problem cos purely in footballing terms, I think there is a beast of a player there and I've always been impressed with him on the pitch.

I disagree about Capoue and Lennon. Both are useless IMO.

Capoue in particular is a lumbering, lethargic buffoon who is incredibly lazy and equally poor on and off the ball.

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 23, 2015

mikeeegreen said:
Our main problem (has been for years) is how slow we move the ball from defence to attack. Granted this isn't helped with our lack of pace and runners in behind, but what is the point of buying more of the same in such a key area we continue to go wrong in? Despite his positional weaknesses, why do you think Poch went with Mason over Dembele/Paulinho?

You obviously were in some foreign land without TV's when Redknapp was here............

"Taxi for Maicon" still makes me laugh out loud. If that side hadn't got enough pace Mitchell needs to be scouting Bolt and not Schneiderlin.

Joshua · Jun 23, 2015

Geyzer Soze said:
4 league starts, 8 sub appearances and 7 cup appearances and you can say that? pfft.

He hasn't played because he's not good enough, been fit all season, is there another reason?

mikeeegreen · Jun 23, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
You obviously were in some foreign land without TV's when Redknapp was here............

"Taxi for Maicon" still makes me laugh out loud. If that side hadn't got enough pace Mitchell needs to be scouting Bolt and not Schneiderlin.

It's not about players with pace it's about moving the ball quicker. And unless I'm mistaken it's been "a few years" since Redknapp (Modric) was here.

It's a key part to have pace in the side with players who can run in behind, but it's no good if you don't have the right players in central midfield. I will always stand by the term "A game of football is won and lost in the midfield"

fatpiranha · Jun 23, 2015

This thread is reminiscent of being at a bar with a bunch of mates unable to decide which girl to chat up. Do you go for the supermodel, the cute girl next door you've had a crush on for years, or the hot milf who's a guaranteed top shag? Just don't spend all night deciding and end up going home with Ann Widdecombe at chucking out time.

Geyzer Soze · Jun 23, 2015

Joshua said:
He hasn't played because he's not good enough, been fit all season, is there another reason?

I don't know why he didn't play more. Do you?

Doesn't matter why anyway, seeing him start 4 league games over a season is not enough for the likes of us to judge him.

mikeeegreen · Jun 23, 2015

Buster18 said:
...do you remember a guy called Luka Modric?

? ... yes, read my post you quoted

yankspurs · Jun 23, 2015

mikeeegreen said:
I think all of those will be incredibly difficult to shift. I just hope the last ITK piece about players coming in regardless of outgoings is true. Otherwise we really are screwed. A lot of these players are going to hang on tooth and nail as they know we are as good as they will get.

I agree its going to be very difficult. Why do you think Im begging and said if you have a heart?

Joshua · Jun 23, 2015

Geyzer Soze said:
I don't know why he didn't play more. Do you?

Doesn't matter why anyway, seeing him start 4 league games over a season is not enough for the likes of us to judge him.

Well, the most common reasons for not playing are being not good enough or not fit? What else?

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 23, 2015

mikeeegreen said:
It's not about players with pace it's about moving the ball quicker. And unless I'm mistaken it's been "a few years" since Redknapp (Modric) was here.

It's a key part to have pace in the side with players who can run in behind, but it's no good if you don't have the right players in central midfield. I will always stand by the term "A game of football is won and lost in the midfield"

It's about pace. Believe me.

We currently have none. We can zip the ball five yards here, and five yards there (like we have done all last season) but without pace we have little chance of breaking teams down who defend in numbers. Why and how do you think we got to the QF of the CL because it wasn't playing crab like football believe me.

This last season the amount of times we broke quickly through the central midfield only for the player(s) with the ball have to stop or back track to find someone to pass to was quite evident. You can bring in half a dozen MS's but as many have pointed out on here already he has vision and a killer forward pass, which becomes null and void if this team does not have someone in the forward three with pace. We currently have no one.

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