The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 23rd June 2015

[Sandro30]

Have you watched an entire game of his? Marseille set up the same exact way that we do, as Poch's system is based on Bielsa's. Imbula is at the center of most play. He wins the ball and begins the drive forward. Marseille often attack very quick, Imbula in no way impairs their counter-attack speed (he often starts these attacks).

Have you based your opinion entirely on highlight videos? It's not really an effective way to judge a player like a CDM, as the best players often have to do the least amount of work due to their positional intelligence and lack of mistakes. Those youtube videos will of course show him shielding the ball and driving past players like Dembele does. But, they will not show how Romao was in trouble, so he dumped the ball to a well covered Imbula who then dribbled his way out of trouble and passed the ball on, continuing the play. His teammates trust him and he carries the middle of the field. He shows incredible football intelligence and leadership for a 22 year old. He is also very tactically responsible, which is why he has flourished under Bielsa. He presses well and tracks players through the midfield. He is also, in fact, a very good passer. He's not the sideways passing nightmare that Dembele is. The weak part of his game is finishing, but in a system that relies on goals from the wingers and striker, it is not all that great a loss.

He is very different from any player that we have. While he is not all that similar to Schneiderlin (Kramer is more-so), he is similar in the right ways. I would say he ticks all the appropriate boxes, and trust our scouting team that he does as well. He knows where to sit in the midfield, he knows how to keep the play moving, he is defensively responsible and he isn't mistake prone. He isn't a deep lying playmaker, but we aren't looking for one. He is, however, a damn better option to pair next to Bentaleb than any of our current lot.

Thank you, you've saved me a lot of time and frustration!

 

[mikeeegreen]

It's about pace. Believe me.

We currently have none. We can zip the ball five yards here, and five yards there (like we have done all last season) but without pace we have little chance of breaking teams down who defend in numbers. Why and how do you think we got to the QF of the CL because it wasn't playing crab like football believe me.

This last season the amount of times we broke quickly through the central midfield only for the player(s) with the ball have to stop or back track to find someone to pass to was quite evident. You can bring in half a dozen MS's but as many have pointed out on here already he has vision and a killer forward pass, which becomes null and void if this team does not have someone in the forward three with pace. We currently have no one.

We desperately need both things IMO

 

[TEESSIDE1]

This thread is reminiscent of being at a bar with a bunch of mates unable to decide which girl to chat up. Do you go for the supermodel, the cute girl next door you've had a crush on for years, or the hot milf who's a guaranteed top shag? Just don't spend all night deciding and end up going home with Ann Widdecombe at chucking out time.

That's not a nice way to talk about A&C's wife

With the talk of Martial drying up and us still actively pursuing Schneiderlin and/or? Imbula, I wouldn't mind going with:

Bentaleb
Schneiderlin
Imbula - 3 energetic, hard working box to box players with the ability to cover the defence so the full backs can push forward.

Lamela
Kane
Eriksen

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Have you watched an entire game of his? Marseille set up the same exact way that we do, as Poch's system is based on Bielsa's. Imbula is at the center of most play. He wins the ball and begins the drive forward. Marseille often attack very quick, Imbula in no way impairs their counter-attack speed (he often starts these attacks)....

My wife is a Marseille fan and I compared him to a young Viera on here a couple years back.
Looked a really exciting player then, but haven't been following them as closely in the last season or so.

 

[fatpiranha]

It's about pace. Believe me.

We currently have none. We can zip the ball five yards here, and five yards there (like we have done all last season) but without pace we have little chance of breaking teams down who defend in numbers. Why and how do you think we got to the QF of the CL because it wasn't playing crab like football believe me.

This last season the amount of times we broke quickly through the central midfield only for the player(s) with the ball have to stop or back track to find someone to pass to was quite evident. You can bring in half a dozen MS's but as many have pointed out on here already he has vision and a killer forward pass, which becomes null and void if this team does not have someone in the forward three with pace. We currently have no one.

I agree. That's why I hope there is some truth to the link with N'jie. Pace and an accurate final ball. No ITK though so maybe Martial should be the one we are discussing.

 

[newbie]

It's about pace. Believe me.

We currently have none. We can zip the ball five yards here, and five yards there (like we have done all last season) but without pace we have little chance of breaking teams down who defend in numbers. Why and how do you think we got to the QF of the CL because it wasn't playing crab like football believe me.

This last season the amount of times we broke quickly through the central midfield only for the player(s) with the ball have to stop or back track to find someone to pass to was quite evident. You can bring in half a dozen MS's but as many have pointed out on here already he has vision and a killer forward pass, which becomes null and void if this team does not have someone in the forward three with pace. We currently have no one.

we did have a modric as well so we had pace, power, and brains

 

[Jospur]

ali z on dentral defenders: From what I hear only actively looking to shift Kaboul and Chirches ...though might sell Fazio for the right offer.

Good to see that Fazio may be shifted. Too ponderous for the Premier League. Another league might suit him better.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I still won't be entirely convinced by Imbula due to what I feel we need in midfield. My priority will be defensive qualities, leadership/composure and vertical passing.

Now even in The American's glowing review he only mentioned him excelling in the composure and leadership part of that. If he's proven to have an eye for a pass and provide good cb protection then I'll be all for him. From what I've seen/read thats not his strengths.

If not it'd be like buying a designer coat for an outdoors activity. A less fancy and more functional waterproof jacket will probably do a better job.

By all accounts the systems both schneiderlin and kramer played in are just as adaptable as the one Imbula played in also.

 

[TheAmerican]

ali z on dentral defenders: From what I hear only actively looking to shift Kaboul and Chirches ...though might sell Fazio for the right offer.

I wonder if that last bit means we think so highly of Dier that we're ready to offer him the starting position at cb (Deserves to, imo). Fazio has done okay, but I doubt he'd want to sit behind Dier in the pecking order. I suspect that speaks more for Poch's rating of Dier more-so than a lack of rating Fazio.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I wonder if that last bit means we think so highly of Dier that we're ready to offer him the starting position at cb (Deserves to, imo). Fazio has done okay, but I doubt he'd want to sit behind Dier in the pecking order. I suspect that speaks more for Poch's rating of Dier more-so than a lack of rating Fazio.

I'd like to see Dier continue his his development at cb also

 

[Snarfalicious]

Fazio did have some crap performances upon his arrival but he really did turn a corner as the season went along. If a right offer comes along and a player that might be considered a better talent is available then you have to explore that option. But, by the end of the season Fazio really wasn't as bad as a lot of people try to make him out to be.

 

[dude573]

I think what it means is that we will not advertise Fazio or flaunt him on the market but should the right bid be put in we would be willing to listen to the offer.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I wonder if that last bit means we think so highly of Dier that we're ready to offer him the starting position at cb (Deserves to, imo). Fazio has done okay, but I doubt he'd want to sit behind Dier in the pecking order. I suspect that speaks more for Poch's rating of Dier more-so than a lack of rating Fazio.

I think it speaks more towards bringing in another CB.

 

[mpickard2087]

Good to see that Fazio may be shifted. Too ponderous for the Premier League. Another league might suit him better.

Even in this league he'd probably look alright for a team that defends deep as a no nonsense centre back who just focuses on defending.

I'd love to know who identified him as suitable for a team looking to press, play a high line, send it's full backs forward and expect the centre backs to have to cover across, and be comfortable with the ball at his feet as we are likely to have lots of it. Really I hope that person is no longer at the club, with judgement that bad.

 

[barry]

Last season we looked much more solid with Fazio at the back with Verts than any other central defensive combinations.
Fazio came into a new league, no preseason with us, and I could be wrong, but I'm assuming a lack of English, yet popular concensus states he was an absolute dud.
I'm not blind to his faults, but I'd rather start this season with Verts and Fazio as our cbs. Let Dier learn his trade as third choice cb.

 

[mikeeegreen]

I wonder If Vertonghen and Wimmer as a partnership is a possible option? I know they are both left footed, but you do get a lot of CB pairings that are 2 right footers. Certainly an interesting thought.

 

[ryantegan]

This thread is reminiscent of being at a bar with a bunch of mates unable to decide which girl to chat up. Do you go for the supermodel, the cute girl next door you've had a crush on for years, or the hot milf who's a guaranteed top shag? Just don't spend all night deciding and end up going home with Ann Widdecombe at chucking out time.

I had a friend that we gave a lot of stick too as he ummed and arrred all night over potential shag buddies. He was left scraping the barrel at 3 am and took home a complete moose of a woman. She looked like a cross between Kim (and Aggy) and Hulk Hogan. We absolutely tore him a near one over it.

Anyway....
Not sure if there is a hidden fable in there somewhere but they are married now.

Makes BBQs at his house slightly awkward though

 

[Jospur]

Even in this league he'd probably look alright for a team that defends deep as a no nonsense centre back who just focuses on defending.

I'd love to know who identified him as suitable for a team looking to press, play a high line, send it's full backs forward and expect the centre backs to have to cover across, and be comfortable with the ball at his feet as we are likely to have lots of it. Really I hope that person is no longer at the club, with judgement that bad.

I wonder if some player agent(s) did a real sell job on someone at Spurs to bring in Fazio.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Last season we looked much more solid with Fazio at the back with Verts than any other central defensive combinations.
Fazio came into a new league, no preseason with us, and I could be wrong, but I'm assuming a lack of English, yet popular concensus states he was an absolute dud.
I'm not blind to his faults, but I'd rather start this season with Verts and Fazio as our cbs. Let Dier learn his trade as third choice cb.

I think he speaks English very well - better than Pochettino.

But either way, I thought he performed better as the season went on, and if the season started today, I assume he would be the starter, paired with Vertonghen. But, if we brought in Alderweireld, it would be at Fazio's expense. I think Dier/Wimmer will be the Cup/Europa pairing so they become acclimated with each other. Fazio would then become the Sub for every game, unless we got a decent offer.

 

[Sweech]

Have you watched an entire game of his? Marseille set up the same exact way that we do, as Poch's system is based on Bielsa's. Imbula is at the center of most play. He wins the ball and begins the drive forward. Marseille often attack very quick, Imbula in no way impairs their counter-attack speed (he often starts these attacks).

Have you based your opinion entirely on highlight videos? It's not really an effective way to judge a player like a CDM, as the best players often have to do the least amount of work due to their positional intelligence and lack of mistakes. Those youtube videos will of course show him shielding the ball and driving past players like Dembele does. But, they will not show how Romao was in trouble, so he dumped the ball to a well covered Imbula who then dribbled his way out of trouble and passed the ball on, continuing the play. His teammates trust him and he carries the middle of the field. He shows incredible football intelligence and leadership for a 22 year old. He is also very tactically responsible, which is why he has flourished under Bielsa. He presses well and tracks players through the midfield. He is also, in fact, a very good passer. He's not the sideways passing nightmare that Dembele is. The weak part of his game is finishing, but in a system that relies on goals from the wingers and striker, it is not all that great a loss.

He is very different from any player that we have. While he is not all that similar to Schneiderlin (Kramer is more-so), he is similar in the right ways. I would say he ticks all the appropriate boxes, and trust our scouting team that he does as well. He knows where to sit in the midfield, he knows how to keep the play moving, he is defensively responsible and he isn't mistake prone. He isn't a deep lying playmaker, but we aren't looking for one. He is, however, a damn better option to pair next to Bentaleb than any of our current lot.

We don't play just like Marseille do though, there's actually several key areas that the teams differ in. One being Bielsa seemed to favour a more counter attacking style approach instead of the traditional possession one with Marseille while we favour the possession. Another is that Bielsa presses even higher than we do, in fact it seems Marseille press almost higher than any other side I've seen this year.

I think if you're basing Imbula's fit with us on him being in a "Bielsa system" and therefore a like for like fit you could potentially end up disappointed. I'm not saying Imbula isn't good or isn't a fit, I'm just saying the Bielsa system and the Poch system are quite different even if Poch's is based on things Bielsa has used.

Also Imbula to me seems like he's the counterattack triggerman from midfield and not the defensive stalwart in the team. I think we need more of the latter especially as Imbula's style of attacking was dribbling instead of passing which I think is less useful when teams are packing the box against us (which happens more against Spurs than it does against Marseille).

Also Imbula could work on his finishing for an attack minded midfielder as he had 2 goals on 49 shots. Conversely Kramer had 2 on 11 and Schneiderlin had 4 on 30. Kramer should also shoot more.