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The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

Spurzinho

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,517
8,373
Still no news on Nya Kirby. Season 3 games old. First international break. No club. If he doesn't get hooked up soon he'll be playing catch up all season. Its looking a dafter and dafter decision.
 
Bus-Conductor

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Sweech said:
I said this last year with Pritchard to WBA, style of play, minutes played, and the training received is incredibly important. You can't just place a "PL" sticker on it and expect it to magically make things work out. We know what KWP is, he's a great attacking fullback with fantastic football IQ, but his weaknesses are his size and inexperience and on a team like Hull who are battling against relegation and who will play the vast majority of matches without the ball it doesn't look like a very good match - being in the PL doesn't suddenly make that all better. He's going to be asked to defend 99% of the time in a team like that and very rarely will he ever get to explore his best assets and use them in a game. Then with that considered a few mistakes and he may never even see pitch time again for them making the loan totally worthless.

I think he'd be better of on a Championship team who actually look to be proactive with their approach on the ball.
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I can see both sides to this argument, some loans have just been utterly counterproductive and poorly thought out, both in terms of player/style of play mismatch and coach and tactical application (Pritchard to West Brom was a diabolical loan, as was Smith to Derby a few years back - who then loaned in Wisdom 5 minutes later) but as DN says:

danielneeds said:
I understand the point you're making - the fit is really important for a loan move. But surely a team defending a lot is not a bad move for KWP - because that is the element of his game he needs to work on...
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It could be that JM/MP have decided they'd like to see him defensively put under pressure and for that part of his game strengthened through exposure.

Sweech said:
And are Hull going to be patiently waiting for him to work on it if he should make a mistake while they're in a relegation battle?
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But this is the counter argument isn't it. First mistake he makes and an EPL side with so much at stake are more likely to just play a senior player out of position than give two shits about the importance of developing our RB for us in the heat of battle.

But we have seen it work before to a degree as well. Yedlin at relegation threatened Sunderland last year ??
 
Bus-Conductor

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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ON McKenna, I'm disappointed, as he was one coach I picked out from last year who's team I actually enjoyed watching play, he seemed to be an intelligent coach, good communicator and seemed to get his team playing that "brand" of football we like - good tempo, high press, cohesive.

As far as Ehiogu goes, I still think we should exercise some caution when criticising. I think I said this last year, so if I need I apologise for repeating myself, but I find it hard to believe that at U21 level, Ehiogu would be making some of the decisions made about who plays and where they play and how they are applied on his own, at that penultimate stage of development I reckon JM and MP are heavily involved and I think Ehiogu probably took flack from all of us for decisions that weren't always his alone, but were made collectively with a view to individual development rather than team cohesion and results.

I think U21/U23 is probably the hardest development stage to coach, as by this stage the groups that have often risen together through the development process, and therefore built cohesion over time, have become very fragmented and their development is now being staggered. Some have advanced and are part of first team squad, some are in limbo and are either still playing U21 or have gone off on loan, and then there are the younger ones being advanced into the U21 group from younger groups. You have players being played out of position to help their individual development. This must make coaching the U21/23 the most difficult task and I think it takes a massively serendipitous bunch of circumstances for that group to look cohesive and get consistent results.

Ironically, I think the U21/23 group is looking rather good at the moment (from the line up I saw last game) - it seems that this group is like the Veljkovic/Bentaleb/Carroll/Pritchard/Smith/Kane group to a degree from Inglethorpe's NextGen time. We have balance and talent in all areas of it with the keeper, KWP/Ogilvie as FB's, the CB choices all strong, Amos, Oduwa, Edwrads, Harrison etc. If it stays that way they could be in for a good season.
 
Last edited:
Cornpattbuck

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,932
16,035
Spurzinho said:
Still no news on Nya Kirby. Season 3 games old. First international break. No club. If he doesn't get hooked up soon he'll be playing catch up all season. Its looking a dafter and dafter decision.
Click to expand...

Talented lad, strange decision making.
 
IGSpur

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Spurzinho said:
Still no news on Nya Kirby. Season 3 games old. First international break. No club. If he doesn't get hooked up soon he'll be playing catch up all season. Its looking a dafter and dafter decision.
Click to expand...

While in limbo I'm still hoping he returns. Would love all that talent to be in our academy, plus the new signing. Though the area I thought we should have strengthened was the wing area, Velasco playing in attack will help.

In the end I think staying at Palace would be best just for the chances of progression, or drop the QPR or even Fulham, where he would get game time even sooner
 
IGSpur

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Bus-Conductor said:
ON McKenna, I'm disappointed, as he was one coach I picked out from last year who's team I actually enjoyed watching play, he seemed to be an intelligent coach, good communicator and seemed to get his team playing that "brand" of football we like - good tempo, high press, cohesive.

As far as Ehiogu goes, I still think we should exercise some caution when criticising. I think I said this last year, so if I need I apologise for repeating myself, but I find it hard to believe that at U21 level, Ehiogu would be making some of the decisions made about who plays and where they play and how they are applied on his own, at that penultimate stage of development I reckon JM and MP are heavily involved and I think Ehiogu probably took flack from all of us for decisions that weren't always his alone, but were made collectively with a view to individual development rather than team cohesion and results.

I think U21/U23 is probably the hardest development stage to coach, as by this stage the groups that have often risen together through the development process, and therefore built cohesion over time, have become very fragmented and their development is now being staggered. Some have advanced and are part of first team squad, some are in limbo and are either still playing U21 or have gone off on loan, and then there are the younger ones being advanced into the U21 group from younger groups. You have players being played out of position to help their individual development. This must make coaching the U21/23 the most difficult task and I think it takes a massively serendipitous bunch of circumstances for that group to look cohesive and get consistent results.

Ironically, I think the U21/23 group is looking rather good at the moment (from the line up I saw last game) - it seems that this group is like the Veljkovic/Bentaleb/Carroll/Pritchard/Smith/Kane group to a degree from Inglethorpe's NextGen time. We have balance and talent in all areas of it with the keeper, KWP/Ogilvie as FB's, the CB choices all strong, Amos, Oduwa, Edwrads, Harrison etc. If it stays that way they could be in for a good season.
Click to expand...

Agree with all of that, Ugo received all of the flack, though, I'm sure he would have just been carrying out instructions form his seniors.

I hope like you say we will see a better team this year, but we still have players like Georgiou and Goddard seemingly hanging around at the moment, when Brown could be getting appearances.

Also we currently have a ridiculous keeping situation with 4 keepers in the u18s and 4 in the u21s. Don't know what's gone on there but we need a clearout, I'd start off with Voss and McDermott. But even then we would have McGee and Glover for the u21s, and I was hoping Whiteman would get game time.

So far this year for the u18s I think Austin has played all 3 games, with Freeman, De Bie and Whiteman sitting out. Hopefully McGee gets an emergency loan when Lloris returns.
 
Spurzinho

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,517
8,373
For the 2 deeper central slots we have Dier, Wanyama, Dembele and occasionally Alli & Carroll, If Carroll leaves then I think we could well see Winks & Onomah on a much more regular business.
 
Spurzinho

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,517
8,373
Former Spurs schoolboy Alex Finney has joined Leicester. He left Bolton by mutual consent a couple of weeks ago because they're under embargo and can only sign players if others leave. Bolton nabbed him from the O's just before he was due to sign his first professional contract. The O's picked him up after we let him go as an U16.
 
loaderspurs

loaderspurs

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2012
576
1,498
Figured i'd escape the doom and gloom in the itk discussion thread and hide in here for a bit. With all the negativity re 'having a thinner, weaker squad' one positive to take is it might give some of our lads a real opportunity to get minutes and make a name for themselves. Infinitely more likely winks, onomah, edwards et al will get minutes without the likes of sissoko in the team.
 
Y

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,967
71,387
loaderspurs said:
Figured i'd escape the doom and gloom in the itk discussion thread and hide in here for a bit. With all the negativity re 'having a thinner, weaker squad' one positive to take is it might give some of our lads a real opportunity to get minutes and make a name for themselves. Infinitely more likely winks, onomah, edwards et al will get minutes without the likes of sissoko in the team.
Click to expand...
Hope Edwards and Harrison are ready and able to make a significant contribution. We need them to provide some depth.
 
Cravenspurs

Cravenspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2011
2,864
3,680
It is clear as day that we are trying to build from the ground up.

I can respect the shit out of that. It makes it feel genuine/organic and I must say, I think we have some class in our youth ranks.

But is is a double edge sword? Will we drop back a place because we bled youth over pulling in tested products?

30% of me thinks we acted a little shortsighted this window, but lord that other 70% of me is like "I get to see Winks prove himself. I get to see Harrison prove himself. I get to see Edwards run past folks."

And you know what? I am ok with that.
 
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