Utilising our squad - formations

[Scot-Spur]

Good summary from Windy on the squad broken down by the below categories (id barely disagree with any of his summaries tbh, think he’s just about nailed it):

• SELL – just get rid
• ACCEPT GOOD OFFER – if we keep hold of them it’s not a problem, but a good offer would mean it’s sensible to sell
• ANGE POTENTIAL – a player I think could fit the system well
• SHRUG – just too many variables
• NO FURTHER DISCOURSE – you know why
• N/A – we don’t own Kulusevski or Lenglet
  
  

  Squad Rebuild

  I am super, super excited about the appointment of Ange Postecoglou but my main (only?) worry is that our squad is not especially well set-up to implement his style. Alongside this, read my Twitter…

  windycoys.com

I agree, pretty close! I’d maybe move a couple into the sell category from Shrug but it just seems a monumental amount to do.

I am intrigued to see how much business we do in and out. It could be one hell of a summer.

I actually believe if we do more business fans would lay of Ange if things don’t go right from the start as they will see we need time to gel.

 

[Flobadob]

He's a great crosser and a good finisher but not sure he's got the raw pace or trickery to be a top-tier winger. Suspect that's why he ended up being converted into a wing-back in the first place.

He'd be a decent rotation option there, though.

Unless we switch to a back 3 I do struggle to see how Porro fits into the first 11 tbh. Would be useful as a super-sub either on the wing or at RB but not sure he'll have a natural spot in the first 11 as he seems like such a specialist wing-back.

Both Spence and Udogie look more natural fits at full-back to me (and Royal ofc). Both quicker and better defenders than Porro, with more physicality, albeit more raw in possession. Not sure Spence could do the inverted thing, though

Yeah this is how I feel about Porro too tbh. I feel like it’s wingback or bust for him with him not quite having the outstanding attributes of a top winger and being slightly defensively frail to play RB. Spence and Udogie have the pace and physicality to adapt to that position though. Like I’ve said already though Ange has over 20 years of coaching experience, I think this thread is an absolute guessing game, he’ll have plenty of different ways to use our players, what he previously did at Celtic may prove to be irrelevant. I still think a 352 would get the best out of them personally. Something like RWB- Porro, RCB- Emerson, CB- Romero, LCB- new signing, LWB- Udogie, DM- Bissouma, DM-Sarr (pointless including Bentancur for now and I think Ange will love Sarr for his athleticism and ability to move the ball quickly and play forward) ACM- Kulusevski, ST- Kane and Son

 

[Cochise]

I mostly agree with Windy on his list but it's the #6 role where I disagree. Skipp's passing is much better than he makes out and he can do the defensive reading better than Hojbjerg. I do think we could find better, but I wouldn't sell Skipp this summer. Sarr is another that I think we've not see enough of and he does have the skillset to play as one of the #8's as does GLC.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Yeah this is how I feel about Porro too tbh. I feel like it’s wingback or bust for him with him not quite having the outstanding attributes of a top winger and being slightly defensively frail to play RB. Spence and Udogie have the pace and physicality to adapt to that position though. Like I’ve said already though Ange has over 20 years of coaching experience, I think this thread is an absolute guessing game, he’ll have plenty of different ways to use our players, what he previously did at Celtic may prove to be irrelevant. I still think a 352 would get the best out of them personally. Something like RWB- Porro, RCB- Emerson, CB- Romero, LCB- new signing, LWB- Udogie, DM- Bissouma, DM-Sarr (pointless including Bentancur for now and I think Ange will love Sarr for his athleticism and ability to move the ball quickly and play forward) ACM- Kulusevski, ST- Kane and Son

So Ange played with inverted fullbacks at Celtic that were used to occupy the space high up to prevent the counter. His wide players stayed high and wide. But for us our players don’t really fit this. Both Kulu and Son like to come inside and not stay wide and both Porro and Udogie can bomb wide and get crosses in. So i imagine he’ll flip the roles for the counter and have Son and Kulu filling the spaces and Porro and Udogie wide.

The entire back line will be pushed high, so the full back position really will operate more like a wing back anyway. If the full backs aren’t inverted than they will be more in a pressing role than a cover role and the gap behind, if the press is beaten will be covered by the 6 and the 2 centre backs sliding across. Full backs will then track as possession builds.

Its really offensive but that seems to be Ange’s mantra.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I absolutely do not see Porro as a right back in a back four under Ange. His attributes are exclusively attacking. If he can’t make it as right winger for us then I am concerned he won’t make it with us at all.

 

[Timberwolf]

I mostly agree with Windy on his list but it's the #6 role where I disagree. Skipp's passing is much better than he makes out and he can do the defensive reading better than Hojbjerg. I do think we could find better, but I wouldn't sell Skipp this summer. Sarr is another that I think we've not see enough of and he does have the skillset to play as one of the #8's as does GLC.

Think this will be the crucial season for Skipp.

I felt like he had some good moments and performances when he first came back from injury but really drifted towards the end of the season and looked a bit ragged and lost by the end, culminating in a couple of big errors.

He's in dire need of proper coaching and I think under Ange he'll either really step up and become a genuinely top player or he'll be cemented as a purely rotational/squad option that will play bit parts and maybe sold down the line.

We'd be insane to sell him this summer, though. Especially as he's homegrown.

(That said, if anyone was to truly step up their game and play a big part, I'd say Sarr's the more likely of the two)

 

[BuckeyeSpurs11]

Sarr could absolutely be the playmaking 6.

 

[greavesy461]

It sounds like he is flexible to the players he has - which is great - but prefers 4-3-3. Is this what people are thinking?

Most regular starters:
Son - Kane - Kulu
Biss - NEW (Maddison? a creative #8)
Bents
Udogie? - NEW (Laporte? best quality LCB available) - Romero - Porro/Emerson
NEW (Raya? best quality GK available)

Backup/rotation:
Gil/Sess - Richi - ? (Richi/Maddison/Porro at a push)
Sarr - Hojbjerg (not much creativity?)
Skipp
Regi/Sess? - ? (real lack of depth at LCB) - Dier - Porro/Emerson
Forster

Not needed (couldn't sell them all so some loans or keep as deep backup)?
Lo Celso (backup creative #8?)
Ndombele (in theory new formation set up for him but I just think the character isnt there so cut losses)
Rodon/Tanganga/Sanchez - prob sell 2 of 3 but can any of them play LCB?
Winks
One of Regi/Sess
Spence - another loan?
Perisic
Lloris

I guess what concerns me (beyond needing 3 new starters and the amount of players to sell) is:

LB quality/suitability to 4-3-3 system
CB backup quality (even assuming we get a new starter LCB)
Lack of WF backup (especially given Son's age)
Lack of creativity in midfield (even assuming we get a new starter creative #8)

It just shows how poorly the squad has been managed in recent years that even after a few windows with quite a lot of turnover we are just so ill-suited to a way of playing that we all know is in our DNA and we would revert to eventually after Jose/Nuno/Conte left. How many times have people been saying this? Quite extraordinary really.

 

[Albertbarich]

If he is here for the first couple of weeks of training I think Lo Celso could stay and be a valuable option as one of the midfielders.

He was good under Jose but lost his way like most of our team playing football totally unsuited to his game. The way people describe Ange's system I think Lo Celso fits perfectly as one of the 8's.

 

[DJS]

Good summary from Windy on the squad broken down by the below categories (id barely disagree with any of his summaries tbh, think he’s just about nailed it):

• SELL – just get rid
• ACCEPT GOOD OFFER – if we keep hold of them it’s not a problem, but a good offer would mean it’s sensible to sell
• ANGE POTENTIAL – a player I think could fit the system well
• SHRUG – just too many variables
• NO FURTHER DISCOURSE – you know why
• N/A – we don’t own Kulusevski or Lenglet
  
  

  Squad Rebuild

  I am super, super excited about the appointment of Ange Postecoglou but my main (only?) worry is that our squad is not especially well set-up to implement his style. Alongside this, read my Twitter…

  windycoys.com

He suggests selling Emerson (our best natural right back) in favour of developing Porro and Spence?

And also the Skipp comment…

Switched off after reading that nonsense…

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

He suggests selling Emerson (our best natural right back) in favour of developing Porro and Spence?

And also the Skipp comment…

Switched off after reading that nonsense…

A lot of players so ofc you won't agree on every one of his opinions, I thought it was a decent overview but yea I didn't agree with all of it either.

 

[KingsDodgyKnee]

I see Royal as more of a RCB now and think he would be very good there moving forward (certainly a better option than Sanchez or Tanganga):

- Good in the air
- Good natural defender (in 1v1s etc)
- Good pace for a CB
- Actually quite good at breaking forward (even if he runs out of ideas a bit in the final 3rd)
- Solid RB that has looked good cutting in

Depends what way Ange wants to go with the team but would work in a back 4 at RB or RCB in a 3. I think he'd be great in this weird 3-2-2-3/3-1-3-3 kind of formation we're seeing more of now as well.

I could see us playing with something like:

Raya
Royal Romero New LCB (Laporte?)
Bissouma Bentancur
Porro Udogie
Kulu Kane Son

WIth Bentancur pushing forward in that 6/8 role. Royal can push up to join Bissouma when in possession, almost making a 2-2-3-3. Then dropping back with Udogie/Bissouma in a 4-3-3 out of possession.

As I've written this I've realised I've gone full Ossie...but I stand by it

 

[Cochise]

If Sess could stay fit for any amount of time, he'd likely do very well at LB in an inverted system.

 

[DJS]

A lot of players so ofc you won't agree on every one of his opinions, I thought it was a decent overview but yea I didn't agree with all of it either.

Emerson has such lovely cheek bone structure and cool hair as well so we couldn’t possibly get rid of him…

 

[Locotoro]

So Ange played with inverted fullbacks at Celtic that were used to occupy the space high up to prevent the counter. His wide players stayed high and wide. But for us our players don’t really fit this. Both Kulu and Son like to come inside and not stay wide and both Porro and Udogie can bomb wide and get crosses in. So i imagine he’ll flip the roles for the counter and have Son and Kulu filling the spaces and Porro and Udogie wide.

The entire back line will be pushed high, so the full back position really will operate more like a wing back anyway. If the full backs aren’t inverted than they will be more in a pressing role than a cover role and the gap behind, if the press is beaten will be covered by the 6 and the 2 centre backs sliding across. Full backs will then track as possession builds.

Its really offensive but that seems to be Ange’s mantra.

I agree with this.
The build up play is likely to be the 6 in the middle with the CBs playing wider and the fullbacks really high up or pushing forward as inverted WBs.

People seem to think that is a limiting factor for Porro or Udogie but actually both of them are very capable of player that role. Porro at Sporting very frequently came inside to shoot or cross from the half space (inside right centre) whereas Udogie's run were primarily towards goal and not towards the byline.
Udogie and Porro could work at attacking fullbacks in a 4 so long as we have a decent CB and DMC providing a good platform.

The criticism of their defending is something of a moot point if Ange is going to set us up to high press all the time.

 

[Locotoro]

If Sess could stay fit for any amount of time, he'd likely do very well at LB in an inverted system.

He'd need a weekend in Vegas with a bag of cocaine to relocate the level of confidence he'd need to make it with us.

He just looks bereft of any self belief

 

[Locotoro]

I see Royal as more of a RCB now and think he would be very good there moving forward (certainly a better option than Sanchez or Tanganga):

- Good in the air
- Good natural defender (in 1v1s etc)
- Good pace for a CB
- Actually quite good at breaking forward (even if he runs out of ideas a bit in the final 3rd)
- Solid RB that has looked good cutting in

Depends what way Ange wants to go with the team but would work in a back 4 at RB or RCB in a 3. I think he'd be great in this weird 3-2-2-3/3-1-3-3 kind of formation we're seeing more of now as well.

I could see us playing with something like:

Raya
Royal Romero New LCB (Laporte?)
Bissouma Bentancur
Porro Udogie
Kulu Kane Son

WIth Bentancur pushing forward in that 6/8 role. Royal can push up to join Bissouma when in possession, almost making a 2-2-3-3. Then dropping back with Udogie/Bissouma in a 4-3-3 out of possession.

As I've written this I've realised I've gone full Ossie...but I stand by it

I would go one further and see if he could play CB in a back 4

 

[KingsDodgyKnee]

I would go one further and see if he could play CB in a back 4

Definitely worth keeping in the squad and probably our best back up for Romero

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

He'd need a weekend in Vegas with a bag of cocaine to relocate the level of confidence he'd need to make it with us.

He just looks bereft of any self belief

That and if he ends up in a wide position he can’t beat a man.

I can’t see Sess making it. More faith in Reggie and that isn’t very high either.

 

[spurs9]

So Ange played with inverted fullbacks at Celtic that were used to occupy the space high up to prevent the counter. His wide players stayed high and wide. But for us our players don’t really fit this. Both Kulu and Son like to come inside and not stay wide and both Porro and Udogie can bomb wide and get crosses in. So i imagine he’ll flip the roles for the counter and have Son and Kulu filling the spaces and Porro and Udogie wide.

The entire back line will be pushed high, so the full back position really will operate more like a wing back anyway. If the full backs aren’t inverted than they will be more in a pressing role than a cover role and the gap behind, if the press is beaten will be covered by the 6 and the 2 centre backs sliding across. Full backs will then track as possession builds.

Its really offensive but that seems to be Ange’s mantra.

The wingers in Ange's system don't stay wide, they start wide and cut inside. If you look at their Heatmaps, they are largely the same area's as Kulusevski, except Kulusevski had more touches deeper (due to being in a low block, as oppose to a high press) and just more touches in general.

Also, Udogie isn't a "bomb wide and get crosses in" wing back, he rarely crosses and cuts inside and plays in the "half spaces" around the box, cuts inside in the middle of the pitch and has occasionally played CM. IMO, the inverted wing back role will be perfect for him, if he can adapt to the PL.

Jota:

Abada:

Kulusevski: