Ched Evans Jailed...

Archibald&Crooks · Oct 16, 2016

Amo said:
Forget the law for a moment. Does anyone think his actions were morally acceptable? Would they accept this behaviour from a friend?

Morally accetable? Not for a minute, he's a complete ratbag.

Veuve Clicquot · Oct 16, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
If we ignore your words? You're also ignoring the words of the victim, which is actually staggering.

What else should we ignore?

I'm out before this becomes farcical.

I'm not ignoring the victims words, I even referred to them. She said that although she felt conscious while still at the bar that she subsequently blacked out and the witnesses testimony clearly supports the fact she was 'out of it'.

WalkerboyUK · Oct 16, 2016

Amo said:
Forget the law for a moment. Does anyone think his actions were morally acceptable? Would they accept this behaviour from a friend?

Absolutely not, but we live in a morally repugnant era, and this kind of behaviour happens across the country every single weekend

Veuve Clicquot · Oct 16, 2016

Amo said:
Forget the law for a moment. Does anyone think his actions were morally acceptable? Would they accept this behaviour from a friend?

No, any decent human being would find his behaviour despicable. That is why it disgusts me that there are comments about feeling sorry for Evans or saying what happened to him could happen to any one of us.
No, it could only happen to men who think its OK to do what he did and thereby putting themselves in a position for the law to say a rape had taken place. He may have been found technically not guilty on appeal, but he is no innocent party.

Danners9 · Oct 16, 2016

Veuve Clicquot said:
No, any decent human being would find his behaviour despicable. That is why it disgusts me that there are comments about feeling sorry for Evans or saying what happened to him could happen to any one of us.

His situation is not one most people find themselves in - going in after a friend while others film it.. however, the prospect of having a few drinks while out on a weekend, meeting a lady who has done the same thing, going home together, then waking up the next day to find she's accusing you of rape is something that could happen to a lot of people each and every night of the week.

Some cases are going to be genuine, some are not. Some are created out of shame, regret or the inability to remember - however, if both parties are drunk - not virtually unconscious - how can you prove one party did not consent? it becomes one word against the other, and often in the media write ups of these situations, the man is shamed as a rapist almost immediately while the woman, the victim, as is her right, is granted anonymity. This has resulted in innocent men being dragged through the mud, losing their careers, and being found innocent/not guilty at the end of it.

This is the situation that could happen so easily.

As A&C said on the previous page, if he was a young swordsman, maybe he'd take a breathalyser out with him. Either that or written consent forms for the girl to sign. That'll lighten the mood..

Sevens · Oct 16, 2016

Amo said:
Forget the law for a moment. Does anyone think his actions were morally acceptable? Would they accept this behaviour from a friend?

What two or more consenting adults get up to is their business. I'd say the most immoral (if you believe in the concept) thing he did was cheat on his missus. I have mates that have had threesomes/or moresomes. And I don't just them for it. I've had threesomes myself (two women rather than a woman and another bloke) and I couldn't give a shit if someone judged me harshly on it.

Considering the whole reason he was acquitted and then found not guilty was based on she had told him to "fuck her harder" whilst he was allegedly raping her, gives cause for reasonable doubt IMO. Especially as she was known for using this phrase during sex.

Monkey boy · Oct 16, 2016

Amo said:
Forget the law for a moment. Does anyone think his actions were morally acceptable? Would they accept this behaviour from a friend?

Depends how open minded you are about sex. Lots of people openly look for threesomes, whose to say that is morally wrong?

dontcallme · Oct 16, 2016

I don't think Amo's point about immoral behaviour was because they had a threesome.

Sevens · Oct 16, 2016

dontcallme said:
I don't think Amo's point about immoral behaviour was because they had a threesome.

Well if his point is about a man fucking a drunk woman they've just met then I would summise that most socialable people on this forum have either done that themselves or have mates who have.

Sevens · Oct 16, 2016

You can WTF all you like. A lot of people have had drunken one night stands with women they met that night. And even if you haven't had one yourself then you're probably mates with someone who has.

dontcallme · Oct 16, 2016

Sevens said:
You can WTF all you like. A lot of people have had drunken one night stands with women they met that night. And even if you haven't had one yourself then you're probably mates with someone who has.

Apologies, I gave the neutral WTF rating as that was my initial reaction, have undone now. If you think the problem with Evans conduct was because he had a drunken one night stand then you are spectaculalry wrong.

Throughout the thread the actions of that night are well documented. If you think all Evans done wrong was get drunk and have sex then I'll leave you to it.

Amo · Oct 16, 2016

Sevens said:
Well if his point is about a man fucking a drunk woman they've just met then I would summise that most socialable people on this forum have either done that themselves or have mates who have.

And that makes it OK? The numbers are irrelevant. You obviously don't have a problem with it though, which was what I asked in my question.

Hoops · Oct 16, 2016

Veuve Clicquot said:
But it wasn't proven that she consented, it was just his word for it and of course he would say that. He got off because it was difficult to prove whether or not she consented beyond reasonable doubt.
Again I ask, because it doesn't seem to be getting through to certain people, do you think it is morally acceptable to take advantage of a woman who is virtually unconscious?

How else would ugly people get laid?

Sevens · Oct 16, 2016

Amo said:
And that makes it OK? The numbers are irrelevant. You obviously don't have a problem with it though, which was what I asked in my question.

If all parties are consenting then what's not OK about it?

Veuve Clicquot · Oct 16, 2016

Christ, some of the comments on on this thread are making me physically sick

thinktank · Oct 16, 2016

Hoops said:
How else would ugly people get laid?

Sevens · Oct 16, 2016

dontcallme said:
Apologies, I gave the neutral WTF rating as that was my initial reaction, have undone now. If you think the problem with Evans conduct was because he had a drunken one night stand then you are spectaculalry wrong.

Throughout the thread the actions of that night are well documented. If you think all Evans done wrong was get drunk and have sex then I'll leave you to it.

Then what did he do?

The whole thing hinges on how out of it she was. Well just because she blacked out doesn't mean she was too wasted to know what she was doing at the time. It also doesn't mean she wasn't in a fit state to give her consent either.

I get the impression a lot of people have already made their mind up that he is guilty regardless of the verdict so this is becoming a circular argument. I do wonder how many of the outraged against Evans cheered Woodgate's goal in the League Cup final a few years ago though....

UpTownSpur · Oct 16, 2016

The police and the CPS are the real villains of this sorry saga. Both the girl and Ched Evans behaved in very unwise ways. The girl by getting plastered to the point she couldn't remember anything from the night before and Ched Evans by sticking his dick in an overly inebriated woman. Some friendly advice/guidance about the potential consequence of their actions would have sufficed. But as soon as the police found out he was a high profile footballer, they spotted the opportunity for a big case. The truth about most police officers is that they're not interested in the day to day mundane criminality experienced by ordinary people, they just want to drive around chasing people in fast cars, investigate high profile murders or be like James Bond going undercover to catch some terrorists. If this had been some Joe Average, they wouldn't have bothered with it.

Amo · Oct 16, 2016

Sevens said:
If all parties are consenting then what's not OK about it?

How can you consent to anything while drunk?

And I don't mean 'tipsy', 'light' or whatever euphemisms you use. I mean drunk.

If a woman (or a man) genuinely believes they've been raped then they have been raped. It's that simple.

The man in question doesn't get to decide whether or not the other has a reason to feel their bodies have been violated. If they feel their bodies have been violated or exploited then they have been exploited.

All this ridiculous talk of breathalysers and consent forms is missing the point entirely. Enthusiastic consent is very easy to spot. And it doesn't have to be verbal, either.

Two simple rules to follow to avoir raping anyone.

1) don't have sex with drunk women. Especially ones you have just met

2) make sure you receive affirmative consent: a lack of rejection doesn't necessarily equal acceptance.

Is that so hard?

Hoops · Oct 16, 2016

thinktank said:

Was a joke man, calm down!

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