Ched Evans Jailed...

[Metalhead]

It's more complicated than that, but at the base level you're right. There is no right or wrong. But whilst I am a nihilist on an exestential level I do believe in evolution and therefore the human race being a societal species.

How does someone with nihilistic beliefs approach societal taboos such as rape, murder, paedophillia etc.? Is that the point that nihilists do not believe that anything is right or wrong but accept that certain acts are unacceptable in a decent society? I am genuinely interested as it's not a concept that I am very familiar with.

 

[Hoops]

It's more complicated than that, but at the base level you're right. There is no right or wrong. But whilst I am a nihilist on an exestential level I do believe in evolution and therefore the human race being a societal species.

I believe in morals, I just don't have any.

 

[Monkey boy]

If I got absolutely hammered and drove my car into a bus stop full of kids would society let me off because I was too drunk to know what I was doing???

 

[Amo]

If I got absolutely hammered and drove my car into a bus stop full of kids would society let me off because I was too drunk to know what I was doing???

No. Society wouldn't let you off if you raped someone while drunk, either.

Society will sympathise with you if you were smashed and someone stuck their dick up your arse though.

 

[Sevens]

How does someone with nihilistic beliefs approach societal taboos such as rape, murder, paedophillia etc.? Is that the point that nihilists do not believe that anything is right or wrong but accept that certain acts are unacceptable in a decent society? I am genuinely interested as it's not a concept that I am very familiar with.

Depends on the level of nihilism that someone believes in. I am primarily an existential nihilist but I didn't have a clue what one of those was until someone else pointed out to me that is what I was. Then I looked it up and yes, it's pretty much what I believe.

If I went into great detail about this it would completely derail the thread and its very complex. Also I wouldn't like to speak on behalf of other nihilists simply because I have created my own philosophy around the whole topic and am not well versed in what the general consensus of nihilism entails. Coupled with my existential nihilism is my strong belief in evolution, of which I also have some of my own ideas on (although predictably when I start looking more deeply into what I regard as my own ideas I tend to find other people got there long before me!). Again I don't know how a traditional nihilist would perceive evolution.

 

[MattyP]

If I got absolutely hammered and drove my car into a bus stop full of kids would society let me off because I was too drunk to know what I was doing???

I don't think that's the right analogy.

If you drove into a bunch of kids whilst you were absolutely hammered, no society wouldn't let you off.

If you drove into a bunch of kids who themselves were absolutely hammered And you couldn't avoid them, possibly society would let you off.

Neither analogy applies to this case though I think.

 

[Sevens]

If I got absolutely hammered and drove my car into a bus stop full of kids would society let me off because I was too drunk to know what I was doing???

In that example you are assuming the role of the antagonist, not the victim. No one is saying that rape is excusable.

A better analogy in this case would be you were absolutely hammered and decided to take a short cut home by crossing the motorway. Two boy racers were racing up the motorway, saw you and slammed on their breaks but they hit you. Luckily you weren't physically hurt at all as they managed to stop in time so didn't hit you with any great force. They quickly drive off and leave you on the motorway. You get up and walk home and can't remember a thing about it until you see CCTV footage of the incident. The whole thing goes to court and one of the boy racers is imprisoned for dangerous driving.

 

[Metalhead]

Depends on the level of nihilism that someone believes in. I am primarily an existential nihilist but I didn't have a clue what one of those was until someone else pointed out to me that is what I was. Then I looked it up and yes, it's pretty much what I believe.

If I went into great detail about this it would completely derail the thread and its very complex. Also I wouldn't like to speak on behalf of other nihilists simply because I have created my own philosophy around the whole topic and am not well versed in what the general consensus of nihilism entails. Coupled with my existential nihilism is my strong belief in evolution, of which I also have some of my own ideas on (although predictably when I start looking more deeply into what I regard as my own ideas I tend to find other people got there long before me!). Again I don't know how a traditional nihilist would perceive evolution.

Cheers, yeah fair enough it's probably not a good idea to take the thread off on a tangent but i did find it interesting that other people identified you as subscribing to that belief rather than yourself.

 

[Sevens]

Cheers, yeah fair enough it's probably not a good idea to take the thread off on a tangent but i did find it interesting that other people identified you as subscribing to that belief rather than yourself.

It was actually a lecturer at college. I think he rated himself as a bit of a philosophy expert. Not that he had to be as I am not known for my being backwards when coming forwards with my opinions. I actually remember exactly what I am said that made him tell me it. "On a universal scale mankind's existence has less influence than what a gnat's piss in the ocean does to global sea levels.".

But in truth a lot of people are existential nihilists. They just don't identify themselves as being one because, like me, they didn't know what one was.

 

[Sevens]

Personally I don't buy the whole can't remember a thing the next morning argument. I've been utterly ruined on both drink and drugs many a time and although some details are hazy the next morning i can always remember every big event from the night before. Being double teamed is probably a big event that would be remembered.

The whole I can't remember a thing is a shit excuse people use when they are ashamed of what they have done even though they know full well what they did.

I know a girl who passes out from drink. I mean literally passes out. You could pour water on her and she wouldn't wake up. She did it in a bar once and it was like trying to carry a dead weight. There was a time she used to go out drinking a lot and because I cared for her it always used to put the wind up me when I'd find her in that state because anyone could do literally anything to her. When she passed out like that, it would normally last for a good three or four hours.

The stupid thing is she would be in complete control of her faculties until she passed out. If she passed out, she'd get a blackout from the night before and I'm talking she wouldn't remember anything for two or three hours prior to her blackout. If she managed to go the night without passing out, she'd remember everything even though sometimes she'd appear more wasted than on a night she'd black out. I am convinced that she had some kind of allergic reaction to a kind of drink but she was pretty consistent on what she drank so I have also often wondered whether she was supplementing her alcohol with another substance....

I've only ever had blackouts from a night twice. Both times in my teens and both times at some point in the night I had been drinking copious amounts of neat whisky. Now I don't drink whisky!

 

[Spurger King]

Again I don't know how a traditional nihilist would perceive evolution.

http://www.inp.uw.edu.pl/mdsie/Political_Thought/Nie-GenologyofMorals.pdf

 

[Spurrific]

If I got absolutely hammered and drove my car into a bus stop full of kids would society let me off because I was too drunk to know what I was doing???

Congratulations on the dumbest post in the history of SC.

 

[Xeeleeyid]

The police and the CPS are the real villains of this sorry saga. Both the girl and Ched Evans behaved in very unwise ways. The girl by getting plastered to the point she couldn't remember anything from the night before and Ched Evans by sticking his dick in an overly inebriated woman. Some friendly advice/guidance about the potential consequence of their actions would have sufficed. But as soon as the police found out he was a high profile footballer, they spotted the opportunity for a big case. The truth about most police officers is that they're not interested in the day to day mundane criminality experienced by ordinary people, they just want to drive around chasing people in fast cars, investigate high profile murders or be like James Bond going undercover to catch some terrorists. If this had been some Joe Average, they wouldn't have bothered with it.

Oh and you know all about modern day policing do you?

 

[UpTownSpur]

Oh and you know all about modern day policing do you?

I've had my experience with them, only as a victim of crime. I'm not black, but everything black people say about them is true and you experience the same if they perceive you as low down on the social ladder. I'd never ever call them again no matter what happened to me and I understand why sections of particular communities feel the same way. There's a rotten culture than runs through them.

I know damn well what they did in this case. They created a crime and victim out of thin air just so they boost their figures. There's a lesson to be learnt here, you should "no comment" the police until you've got legal representation. If they'd have done that, there would have been no trial as there hadn't actually been any accusation of rape, and they took the footballers confirmation that they'd rodgered the girl and manipulated into an admission of guilt, and they've left a trail of destruction across many lives. They're the ones who should be prosecuted.

 

[Jamturk]

I thought that if the Woman/Man is too drunk to consent or not consent that it constitutes rape.

p.s I'm not saying that is what happened in this case, don't know the details.

 

[Freddy Adu]

I've been blackout drunk once when I was 19. I remember waking up with my head down my own toilet, but couldn't remember a single detail for the 2 or 3 hours previous to that. It is definitely a thing.

 

[Lo Amo Speroni]

Just for those who seem to be unclear about what constitutes rape and how alcohol comes into the equation from a legal point of view, this is a quote from the uk director of public prosecutions

“For too long society has blamed rape victims for confusing the issue of consent - by drinking or dressing provocatively for example - but it is not they who are confused, it is society itself and we must challenge that,”

“Consent to sexual activity is not a grey area - in law it is clearly defined and must be given fully and freely.

“It is not a crime to drink, but it is a crime for a rapist to target someone who is no longer capable of consenting to sex through drink,”

The law states whether he knew she did not consent or was reckless as to whether she consented or not. The prosecution have to prove she did not consent AND that he knew she did not consent or was reckless as to whether she consented or not. Trust me, the law on rape is very GREY.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

I've been blackout drunk once when I was 19. I remember waking up with my head down my own toilet, but couldn't remember a single detail for the 2 or 3 hours previous to that. It is definitely a thing.

I've done it a few times in my early to mid 20s.
Then it was commonly known as wearing the beer coat and catching the beer bus home.
You have no idea how you got there, you just wake up there the next day.

Does it mean I wasn't able to cohesively wander into the kebab shop, order a kebab and chips and eat it before heading home?
Did I consent to handing over money for the grub??
I might not remember doing it, but the remnants are in the toilet or on the floor...

In this instance there was not enough conclusive evidence to say that she didn't consent.
That's the crux of the case - evidence.
Doesn't make Evans innocent, just makes him not guilty, based on the evidence provided.
Only 3 people know the absolute truth about what happened that night, and 2 of them provide enough back-up to each other.

 

[Amo]

Trust me, the law on rape is very GREY.

And very archaic.

 

[brasil_spur]

Depends on what the plan for conviction was.

If the prosecution was relying on the girl's word and she lied then you have a point. But you have no idea on the manner in which she was questioned.

Everything I have read suggests the initial case concentrated on the fact that Evans got a message from his mate saying he was with a pissed girl. He borrowed keys to the room and went in to have sex with her despite never having had any contact with her beforehand.

The debate was on whether that was enough for a rape conviction.

But people like you are just arguing the cliches and stereotypes and not the facts of this particular case.

I don't know the manner she was questioned in and neither do you.

Right but even despite all of the above, there's no way the police continued to court without interviewing the girl. The main reason being that they could have asked her and she could have said "no it's all fine, i like Ched and wanted to have sex with him". At which point this all would have stopped.

So the fact is she must have been asked if she consented to sex with him or not, to which she either answered: "no" or "i can't remember".