Player Watch Player Watch - Lucas Moura

danielneeds · Sep 11, 2018

riggi said:
Footballers really shouldn't reveal their political leanings.

I'm all for footballers revealing more about themselves - people like Mata or Dier, who have thoughtful and nuanced ideas, and things I agree with. But you can't have it both ways, and crucify someone when they come out with things that you disagree with.

riggi · Sep 11, 2018

danielneeds said:
I'm all for footballers revealing more about themselves - people like Mata or Dier, who have thoughtful and nuanced ideas, and things I agree with. But you can't have it both ways, and crucify someone when they come out with things that you disagree with.

In today's climate I just think it's very naive. I care about his political leanings as much as I do about bob on the streets.

IfiHadTheWings · Sep 11, 2018

riggi said:
In today's climate I just think it's very naive. I care about his political leanings as much as I do about bob on the streets.

Blatantly a leave voter... :cautious:

TheHoddleWaddle · Sep 11, 2018

ilikeost said:
Maybe you should have a look at what the guy he is supporting stands for and not just rely on what some dumb footballer said?

The main problem isn't his personal opinion. The problem is that he is using his large platform to promote his political views. When he does that his political views becomes my problem.

But whatever your opinion of someone else's politics, that's all it is. An opinion. You've based that on some snippets from an article cleverly written by the daily mail to make people think moura outright supports him. He might do, but I don't see that.

It certainly doesn't translate to my wanting a player out the club because his political views differ to mine. I don't know if they do.as.i haven't ever spoken to him. But wanting someone out, as they have a different perspective on something we aren't experts in, seems a little fascist in itself.

As long as he scores goals and represents Tottenham who cares what his opinions are? Even after he plays for spurs really.

I think drink driving and wife beating are abhorrent. But I don't deny how awesome.vdv was nor do I want Hugo to leave.

rossdapep · Sep 11, 2018

MightyModric said:
I remember Nathan Clark from another forum talking about how he fingers his arse during a wank.

Now he's an expert on Brazilian politics, what a journey that is

Well politicians and strange sexual fetishes come hand in hand, right?

wrd · Sep 11, 2018

TheHoddleWaddle said:
But whatever your opinion of someone else's politics, that's all it is. An opinion. You've based that on some snippets from an article cleverly written by the daily mail to make people think moura outright supports him. He might do, but I don't see that.

It certainly doesn't translate to my wanting a player out the club because his political views differ to mine. I don't know if they do.as.i haven't ever spoken to him. But wanting someone out, as they have a different perspective on something we aren't experts in, seems a little fascist in itself.

As long as he scores goals and represents Tottenham who cares what his opinions are? Even after he plays for spurs really.

I think drink driving and wife beating are abhorrent. But I don't deny how awesome.vdv was nor do I want Hugo to leave.

Unfortunately this is the reality, if you decided to stop watching all the entertainment be it sports, music, tv shows, movies where it involved somebody who did something disgusting or has political views you don't believe in then your only option would be watching reruns of Mr Rodgers. It's hard to know where to draw the line.

rossdapep · Sep 11, 2018

HildoSpur said:
I honestly couldn't give one toss what his political opinions are - particularly in a country of which I know very little about it. I only care what he does on the pitch.

This is exactly the stance our fans should have regarding this. But let's scrutinise people for everything little thing they do or say.

Lucas probably shouldn't be airing all of his views in public, however knowing the climate there it is quite simply frustration and a sense of feeling utterly powerless against the mounting problems that the country has.

If it's worth anything I work with someone who had a working relationship with Lucas and he told me that he is a very humble and down-to-earth lad, as is his family. I think Lucas' feelings for change probably come from a good place, albeit if he is airing support for someone who has some disgusting views. Considering he has only spoken about the crime and safety situation, then it's clear he places this as the area of priority - and if you speak to most Brazilians then they will tell you exactly the same.

wrd · Sep 11, 2018

Also from Mouras perspective, the guy grew up in poverty, he has gone on record saying most of his friends are either dead or in prison and he credits his faith with his good fortune to escape that life and for all the good things he's had come his way. It's very clear religion is massive in his life from social media posts and not a single one of us has walked in his shoes. This politician is using religion as his base and he preys on people like Moura who hold their faith tightly. I think Moura is more than likely ill-informed and from his tweets it looks like he isn't happy with his country and wants change.

I'm not defending Moura and from my point of view weighing up what he has said on twitter with his background I'd say he is ill-informed and his faith is being taken advantage of like a lot of voters in recent years. For me I'm dissappointed but I'm not going to suddenly dislike the guy.

rossdapep · Sep 11, 2018

riggi said:
In today's climate I just think it's very naive. I care about his political leanings as much as I do about bob on the streets.

I agree with what you are saying. Supporters of the club should have this approach as it actually has no effect on the club or ourselves.

This is a matter exclusively for Brazilians and those who are affected to discuss. I don't think it's right for a fan of the club to go on social media and start with this shit. If Lucas himself had committed a racial act or something of that ilk then we should sure as hell hold him up to it but when he is quite clearly airing his concerns for rising crime in his homeland then it comes across as a little pathetic.

I saw at least 5 popular accounts related to Spurs comment on this.

rossdapep · Sep 11, 2018

wrd said:
Also from Mouras perspective, the guy grew up in poverty, he has gone on record saying most of his friends are either dead or in prison and he credits his faith with his good fortune to escape that life and for all the good things he's had come his way. It's very clear religion is massive in his life from social media posts and not a single one of us has walked in his shoes. This politician is using religion as his base and he preys on people like Moura who hold their faith tightly. I think Moura is more than likely ill-informed and from his tweets it looks like he isn't happy with his country and wants change.

I'm not defending Moura and from my point of view weighing up what he has said on twitter with his background I'd say he is ill-informed and his faith is being taken advantage of like a lot of voters in recent years. For me I'm dissappointed but I'm not going to suddenly dislike the guy.

And I can guarantee you that this is exactly how a huge part of the country is feeling. They are scared about which direction they are heading, especially when EVERY politician is corrupt and more interesting in coming up with developments that can line their pockets rather than fix the failing education system.

southlondonyiddo · Sep 11, 2018

HildoSpur said:
I honestly couldn't give one toss what his political opinions are - particularly in a country of which I know very little about it. I only care what he does on the pitch.

Yeah that Hitler was a fantastic inside forward back in the day. Really wish Spurs had signed him!!

ilikeost · Sep 11, 2018

TheHoddleWaddle said:
But wanting someone out, as they have a different perspective on something we aren't experts in, seems a little fascist in itself.

Not wanting a fascist sympathizer playing for the team you support is fascist? Okay...

TheHoddleWaddle said:
As long as he scores goals and represents Tottenham who cares what his opinions are? Even after he plays for spurs really.

Right, now I know that any future discussion with you is pointless. As long as he scores goals who cares? I can only laugh at that.

LexingtonSpurs · Sep 11, 2018

I don't know anything about Brazilian politics, government, or much about the culture.

I am not going to sit here and be a keyboard warrior and pontificate about complex issues as though they are binary conditions.

What I have seen from Lucas is someone who seems well-grounded in his faith, and appears to be a decent human. If his political views are different from mine, I suspect it is because our world-views have been shaped by vastly different life experiences. I am ok with that.

ilikeost · Sep 11, 2018

nicdic said:
It matters quite a lot when the whole political system in Brazil is a mess and the frontrunner is a guy with a conviction for corruption and may not be able to stand for election.

Why does that make fascism okay?

Danners9 · Sep 11, 2018

rossdapep said:
And I can guarantee you that this is exactly how a huge part of the country is feeling. They are scared about which direction they are heading, especially when EVERY politician is corrupt and more interesting in coming up with developments that can line their pockets rather than fix the failing education system.

Especially after the last but one president, a left-leaning female politician, was impeached for corruption and the investigation is still happening. They must be fed up and ready for someone promising hard and fast changes. I saw a comment somewhere else suggesting Bolsonaro is more like Duterte in the Philippines than Trump (who some press likened him to), and maybe the situations are comparable to the Philippines; a country mired in corruption, poverty and falling further into the hands of organised crime which includes elected officials and the police. I also read that the evangelicals love this candidate, and the man himself says he's Catholic even though he attends a Baptist church. Lucas certainly comes across as a very religious man.

The term 'fascist' is rather scary but the situation there may call for something drastic - but no idea who the other candidates are so we may hear more about it before the election starts.

rossdapep · Sep 11, 2018

ilikeost said:
Not wanting a fascist sympathizer playing for the team you support is fascist? Okay...

Right, now I know that any future discussion with you is pointless. As long as he scores goals who cares? I can only laugh at that.

He's not a fascist sympathiser ffs. He shares a view of many that something desperately needs to be done about the crime and safety situation.

Living in a country where your chances of becoming mugged at gunpoint, assaulted for your phone or getting caught by a stray bullet increase day by day because the corrupt politicians are more interested in lining their pockets you would feel the same.

It's pretty obvious from his views that he's deeply concerned about the crime.

My wife received a message sometime ago to tell her that one of her ex-collegaues had been shot and killed for her car. At least 4 of her friends have had gangs take their cars or other possessions at gunpoint, her brother had to leave the country because he was concerned for his safety after he stupidly bought a replica gun to use against anyone who tried to rob his hostel. I lived in Fortaleza for a year and was too scared to leave the apartment after 11pm unless I was in a car, even then I couldn't sit comfortably.

People are sick and tired of living in a society where you could end up dead for your phone.

But you go on continue telling us all what a shit person Lucas is.

rossdapep · Sep 11, 2018

LexingtonSpurs said:
I don't know anything about Brazilian politics, government, or much about the culture.

I am not going to sit here and be a keyboard warrior and pontificate about complex issues as though they are binary conditions.

What I have seen from Lucas is someone who seems well-grounded in his faith, and appears to be a decent human. If his political views are different from mine, I suspect it is because our world-views have been shaped by vastly different life experiences. I am ok with that.

Why can't everyone take this sensible stance?

TheHoddleWaddle · Sep 11, 2018

ilikeost said:
Not wanting a fascist sympathizer playing for the team you support is fascist? Okay...

Right, now I know that any future discussion with you is pointless. As long as he scores goals who cares? I can only laugh at that.

Perhaps I didn't articulate myself too well. No need for theatrics dear sir. I was trying to say, (there's no evidence Moura is a fascist sympathizer) that your wanting someone out based on their views, is a fairly fascist approach....? It's ok for you to think in your way, but not for others to have their own thoughts and opinions on a subject? You'd have someone leave because their views don't correlate to yours?

Has moura hurt anyone? Has he created some hitlerite movement in Brazil that will kill anyone in a favella? All he's done is express a view. So yes, as long as he is a footballer and not a politician likely to be elected. Then who cares?

Obviously there's a limit on tolerance, but that line to cross is different to everyone. I can't see the big deal personally. Given the background and problems in Brazil at present.

E17yid · Sep 11, 2018

LexingtonSpurs said:
I don't know anything about Brazilian politics, government, or much about the culture.

I am not going to sit here and be a keyboard warrior and pontificate about complex issues as though they are binary conditions.

What I have seen from Lucas is someone who seems well-grounded in his faith, and appears to be a decent human. If his political views are different from mine, I suspect it is because our world-views have been shaped by vastly different life experiences. I am ok with that.

Like you I know next to nothing and I don’t even know what Lucas has said tbh.

However, surely you have to draw the line somewhere? If a player, who initially seemed like a decent person, came out and said I hate gays, thinks immigrants from Africa are scum and Hitler was my favourite 20th century political figure then that’s not going to sit right with a lot of people and would naturally alter some people’s opinion on whether he’s a good human being or not.

Obviously I’m not saying that is what Lucas thinks but using the above as an example of where I would draw the line.

If, for arguments sake he did hold similar views then, as a sportsman, he should probably keep those views to himself.

Shadydan · Sep 11, 2018

rossdapep said:
Why can't everyone take this sensible stance?

Because some people like be offended in order to justify an extreme opinion?

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