* SPURS v BIRMINGHAM * Official Match Thread

addlestonespur · Dec 2, 2007

We were mugged today big time. we should have had three points today against a team that took three of their four/five chances to score - that is an awesome ratio of shots to goals.

The referee shouldn't have given a free kick let alone booked Robbie or even sent him off, but Defoe may just get enough first team action with him suspended - if it happens, to sign a new deal.
As soon as Bale went off we completely lost our shape, I think we'd have still won the game had he been able to continue - most spurs fans have wanted us to so badly sign a left sided winger, if Juande doesn't get comolli to do this in January I'll be amazed.

Poor result. Dawson looks half the player he was last season and Kaboul is just out of his depth without an experienced player by his side. Ramos can do nothing about this until Rocha or Gardner come back from injury. Would be nice to get King (if he ever plays for us again) back at any time this season.

Some have been touting us to finish top eight six still but it just won't happen with such a woeful defense. :violin:

worcestersauce · Dec 2, 2007

joey55 said:
Despite the result I thought it was a good game of football. Players like Larsson and De Ridder have real quality and put our transfer activity to shame. Blackburn can spend £400,000 (Samba and Nelson) and get a superbly solid CB pairing, whilst the 3 players we used in that positon today cost £20 million. Sooner or later our fans as a group are going to have to start to recognise that our problems were/are not with who is/was in charge of the the team, but of the way we go about recruiting players and the players we sign as a result of this. Ramos is a very good coach, but so was BMJ, despite what a lot of fans (who suddenly forgot where we were before he took over) might think. But it doesn't matter who is in charge if the players they have to pick don't have the right blend of talent and experience. We've got so much talent that we should have hammered the likes of Boro, Wham and Brum, but even with a 2 time UEFA cup winner in charge we still fuck up. We need some top quality experienced players to organise things and let our young talent flourish.

Not sure where you are going with this Joey.
Birmingham had nothing and then the ref gave them a penalty.
We were so much better than them, then we were reduced to ten men and we were still better than them and then they took out Bale and we were still better.
They had five minites at the end by which time we would have had it won with any one of Keane or Bale still on the pitch.

Larssen and de ridder are not in the same league as Gareth Bale and Blackburn let in 4 last week and another one yesterday and they didn't have their 6th choice CB pairing and weren't missing their most influential midfielder.

Why bring everything back to our "buying policy"? we have the big discussion about who to buy and who not to during the window and that isn't responsible for today's result.

CaptainCat · Dec 2, 2007

worcestersauce said:
We were so much better than them, then we were reduced to ten men and we were still better than them and then they took out Bale and we were still better.

:lol: Spot on.

snake1 · Dec 2, 2007

TheChosenOne said:
It ain't - Sky said last 43 !

That is still an absolute pony record.

This result shows us how important it is that we get Ledley King back, Needless to say, without him, we're shite. He's so good he makes Dawson look like an England prospect.Eek
Come January I think Ramos needs to buy at least TWO top CB's, Daws and Kaboul are not good enough IMO. I don't care if Kaboul will be good in a few years, we need him to be good NOW. If we persist with these two I fear about our place in the Premier League.

Juande_Ramos · Dec 2, 2007

snake1 said:
That is still an absolute pony record.

This result shows us how important it is that we get Ledley King back, Needless to say, without him, we're shite. He's so good he makes Dawson look like an England prospect.Eek
Come January I think Ramos needs to buy at least TWO top CB's, Daws and Kaboul are not good enough IMO. I don't care if Kaboul will be good in a few years, we need him to be good NOW. If we persist with these two I fear about our place in the Premier League.

Way over the top. With so much shite in the Premiership (including the team that beat you today) Spurs won't have any problems staying up. Football sometimes is a funny game, but not for the whole of a season.

spurnut · Dec 2, 2007

nightgoat said:
Anyone else see the huge grin on Rennie's face after Larsson's goal?...

i saw that wanted to headbutt the tv screen when i saw that useless gooner supporter grinning his bollox off

spurnut · Dec 2, 2007

ive given up on king coming back

joey55 · Dec 2, 2007

Spursking said:
Samba and Sagna is the best defender buys this season, but Kaboul is also a very good buy if you think long term.

Kaboul is a player with obvious ability and potential, but he is far from a good buy. A team with the problems we have had at the back this and last season, clearly didn't need a player for the future. Also Samba was bought last season.

snake1 · Dec 2, 2007

Juande_Ramos said:
Way over the top. With so much shite in the Premiership (including the team that beat you today) Spurs won't have any problems staying up. Football sometimes is a funny game, but not for the whole of a season.

I agree, but its been pretty 'funny' for 15 game's now. .

snake1 · Dec 2, 2007

Double post.

CaptainCat · Dec 2, 2007

Btw, who else saw Uriah Rennie laughing his head off when Birmingham scored the winner? Seemed like he was partly responsible for the sending off too.

rez9000 · Dec 2, 2007

haxman said:
Agree with most of the comments, the ref was a disgrace. And it seemed as if he spoke to his 4th official on the radio about the Keane incident, and who was the 4th official? Uriah Rennie. Who has to be one of the worst officials there is in the game.

And who also isn't even qualified to referee in the Premiership this season. He was refused registration as he was deemed unfit.

The referee was an utter, utter, utter, utter disgrace today. When are we going to make referees genuinely accountable? We lost three points today in no small part as a result of his disgraceful decisions. Let's say that those three points make the difference between, for argument's sake 5th and 6th, at the end of the season. How much does the club lose in terms of final position money? Or if we fail to qualify for Europe by three points. How much do we lose then?

As far as I'm concerned, every club should have the right to question referees decisions (not on the pitch, but after the game) and if they are found to be justified, the referee should be fined. Right now, a ref can do what he likes and get away with no punishment. If I consistently at work, I get fired. What do they get? Nothing.

And if anyone wants to say that refs will lose respect on the pitch because of that, I would respond by asking how much respect have they got at the moment? This season has seen countless decisions that have been shambolic to say the absolute least. Disgusting isn't a strong enough word for the way some refs have acted this season. in fact, since they turned professional, the standard of refereeing in this country has disappeared down the toilet.

As for Spurs performances this season, we've had one or two bad ones obviously, but our 90 minute form is undeserving of the position we are in at the moment. Far from not having the rub of the green, we haven't even been near the green to rub it. Christ, we're not even in the same county as the green.

haxman said:
Robbie's red card must be rescinded cause there was no way in hell that was a sending off offence.

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes. In a career spanning 11 years, Keane's only been red-carded twice, and both of them have come in the last two seasons as a result of atrocious refereeing decisions. He gets a blot on his record, and the referee gets sod all done to him.

Refs like Phil Dowd should be booted out of football, along with the likes of Uriah Rennie.

sim0n · Dec 2, 2007

Does anyone remember the last time ManUre was charged with a PK and had a player sent off with a straight red at Old Trafford?...

I doubt that it's ever happened.

Spurs fuqed again... :violin:

Juande_Ramos · Dec 2, 2007

snake1 said:
I agree, but its been pretty 'funny' for 15 game's now. .

I didn't follow Spurs closely when Jol was the coach, but from the full games I saw Juande Ramos is clearly on a different level as a coach, and I don't think Spurs are going to keep underperforming to that degree.

When I said funny game I was talking about losing games that you clearly deserve to win, like today's, where poor finishing + dodgy refereeing helped Birmingham win a game they deserved nothing from.

tippspur59 · Dec 2, 2007

Ramos said he wouldn't be bringing in much during the transfer window but he has to go out now and buy a decent centre-back from somewhere or we are fucked.we cant keep waiting for king.

The Apprentice · Dec 2, 2007

Don't know what to say. We hammered them all game. Played some good stuff once again let down by rank finishing.

They had a dodgy penalty, one calamity defensive situation and a 40 yard screamer. Sums up our season.

If that game was played another ten times we would win every single time.

Oh well.

PS. I feel for Kaboul having to play with that useless waste of space Dawson. He's so slow, clumsy and awkward. Can't wait for King, Gardner or Rocha to come back so we can drop Simple Michael. I've had enough of his sub rate defending.

yanno · Dec 2, 2007

Clown #1 Dowd's Red card decision was disgraceful. But Sky clearly showed him having a conversation in his headpiece with the sideline, and presumably with Clown #2, Uriah Rennie, before doing the dirty deed.

So, two Clowns who have both, during their careers, been deemed unfit to referee in the EPL conspire to send a player off for a fair tackle. Everyone in football knows Robbie Keane is not a dirty player. Indeed, Bus-Conductor can hardly write a post without accusing him of ducking out of challenges.

I increasingly think the American football system of each coach having a couple of challenges per half, for game-changing decisions - eg disputed goals and Red cards - is the way to go. It's a complete joke that we should lose a game we would have won easily because of the ref. And it was the same last week, when Riley should have red carded Green and given us a pen.

The Apprentice · Dec 2, 2007

rez9000 said:
Let's say that those three points make the difference between, for argument's sake 5th and 6th, at the end of the season. How much does the club lose in terms of final position money? Or if we fail to qualify for Europe by three points. How much do we lose then?.

HaHa, good one Rez. 5th! 6th! EUROPE! NO fucking chance. I know what you're getting at mate but it's more likely to make the difference between 12th and 13th.

We've got no chance of Europe via the League. That ship has sailed.

LSUY · Dec 2, 2007

worcestersauce said:
Birmingham had nothing and then the ref gave them a penalty.

The ref also gave us a penalty. Any half decent ref would have given Birmingham a free kick in the build up. Then their was the time when Forssell went one on one with Robbo and was wrongly flagged offside.

worcestersauce said:
they didn't have their 6th choice CB pairing and weren't missing their most influential midfielder.

Birmingham lost 6 of their last 7 league games (7 of their last 8 if you include the League Cup), even with a CB pairing of Kaboul and Dawson our defence should be able to handle them. Our defence failed in performing the basics of defending. Forssell broke the offside trap with ease and was unlucky to be given offside. Forssell was also in the 6 yard box and wasn't even marked. Then their is the 2nd Birmingham goal. Dawson showed he lacks a footballing brain. You don't lunge in like that unless your 100% sure your going to win the ball because if you don't you will leave a big hole in defence. That was followed up with Zokora's awful attempt at tackling.

worcestersauce said:
Why bring everything back to our "buying policy"? we have the big discussion about who to buy and who not to during the window and that isn't responsible for today's result.

The transfer policy is responsible. The whole world and his wife knows you need some experience in defence. When Man Utd won the title with their kids they had Bruce and Pallister in defence. King can't be relied upon. He is rarely fit and the club should have bought a Naybet type defender that could teach Dawson and Kaboul.

joey55 · Dec 2, 2007

Juande_Ramos said:
I didn't follow Spurs closely when Jol was the coach, but from the full games I saw Juande Ramos is clearly on a different level as a coach, and I don't think Spurs are going to keep underperforming to that degree.

When I said funny game I was talking about losing games that you clearly deserve to win, like today's, where poor finishing + dodgy refereeing helped Birmingham win a game they deserved nothing from.

I can tell from most of your posts that you didn't follow us closely under Jol. If you think 2 5th place finishes is under performing then you need to do a little research in to where we were before Martin Jol took over. You realise we need decent CBs, but I get the impression you'll be shocked to hear that for the last 2 seasons when King has been fit, under Martin Jol, we earned more points per game than Arsenal. Last season when King was fit we earned more points per game than Liverpool. Jol basciallly took Benitez, two time La Liga winner, to school. I hardly think that is under achieving. It is massively over achieving and giving a clear indication of what the man could achieve if given the right players, somehting you even acknowlegde are missing from our squad.

I'm sure we wont keep under performing as well, but we are losing in the same unfortuante manner in which we dropped points under Jol. I respect your opinion as concerns Ramos and am always interested to hear what you have to say. But you clearly don't have the first clue about Martin Jol. Judging him on his results this season is like judging Ramos on his results he had at Seville this season. It gives a totally false impression.

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