*** SPURS v BIRMINGHAM *** Official Match Thread

[sim0n]

if this refereeing display took place at old shiteford there would be an official inquest and a public execution of all officials involved,... but this will just be covered over by FA bull$hit

:violin:

 

[haxman]

Reminded me a lot of the Newcastle game last year where we destroyed them all game yet took nothing from a game we shoulda walked and conceded a belter of a goal which there was nothing the keeper could do about it.

Deja feckin vu. We are in the toilet till we get some quality defenders in. How important is King to us.............?

 

[rez9000]

HaHa, good one Rez. 5th! 6th! EUROPE! NO fucking chance. I know what you're getting at mate but it's more likely to make the difference between 12th and 13th.

We've got no chance of Europe via the League. That ship has sailed.

Well to be fair, I DID say for argument's sake. :wink:

 

[rez9000]

As Teemu said, we can't rely on King. Whether or not the rumours of his being crocked are true (and personally, I don't believe them), I sincerely doubt he'll play a full season for us again. We need a decent, experienced, proper CB, now (well, in January).

This is Comolli's litmus test. If he is to justify his position and his salary, he needs to bring in the players we obviously require, and that's not just restricted to the defence.

 

[Allen]

Unlucky the boys today. We played them off the park, something we very rarely did under J*L.
Think the future's bright, once we get the defence sorted - and we know it will be.

Although most called for Defoe today, he didn't offer very much - I know the sending off didn't help.

Zakora was tremendous today. Not been a big fan till know but i think Ramos has found him his role (DM).

The league is gone; to make up 17+ points is a huge mountain and would take championship form from here on in. I'm a strong believer we'll bounce right back next year in a big way. 1 step back and 2 foward, no worries!! COYS!!

 

[keenu]

Just heard Poyet interview on the BBC, it was the 4th official (Rennie) who gave the decision to send Keane off, no wonder he was laughing at the end...

 

[speccy_spur]

I think the image of Rennie grinning like an idiot when they scored their winner is going to remain fixed in my memory for days. Surprised he restrained himself from hugging the Brum coaching staff.

My anger against Kaboul has just turned into pity now. He really is out of his depth at present. Hope he can turn it around in the reserves, because we need to stick with Zoko or Chimbs there for the moment until the crocked CBs return.

Steed looked like the only player who could handle the physical side of the game in the middle today. Too many ducking out of tackles in midfield.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think the image of Rennie grinning like an idiot when they scored their winner is going to remain fixed in my memory for days. Surprised he restrained himself from hugging the Brum coaching staff.

Excellent point. I was appalled. Had to look twice to realize it wasn't a member of their coaching staff!!!

 

[Juande_Ramos]

I can tell from most of your posts that you didn't follow us closely under Jol. If you think 2 5th place finishes is under performing then you need to do a little research in to where we were before Martin Jol took over. You realise we need decent CBs, but I get the impression you'll be shocked to hear that for the last 2 seasons when King has been fit, under Martin Jol, we earned more points per game than Arsenal. Last season when King was fit we earned more points per game than Liverpool. Jol basciallly took Benitez, two time La Liga winner, to school. I hardly think that is under achieving. It is massively over achieving and giving a clear indication of what the man could achieve if given the right players, somehting you even acknowlegde are missing from our squad.

I'm sure we wont keep under performing as well, but we are losing in the same unfortuante manner in which we dropped points under Jol. I respect your opinion as concerns Ramos and am always interested to hear what you have to say. But you clearly don't have the first clue about Martin Jol. Judging him on his results this season is like judging Ramos on his results he had at Seville this season. It gives a totally false impression.

Spurs had easily the fith best squad in the League. Martin Jol in terms of League position did just ok, but was poor in the Cups.
I am basing my opinion on how his team played the times I watched them full games, generally against the top sides. I rememeber one game against Liverpool (2-2 at Anfield) where Xabi Alonso was left completely unmarked to do what he pleased during the whole game. That was very poor coaching. The back line under Jol was too deep. The team physical fitness was not that impressive, as well as their agression and mentality. You may rate Jol because he was the best coach you had in a lot of time, but Juande Ramos is better IMO and results will prove it.

 

[joey55]

Spurs had easily the fith best squad in the League. Martin Jol in terms of League position did just ok, but was poor in the Cups.
I am basing my opinion on how his team played the times I watched them full games, generally against the top sides. I rememeber one game against Liverpool (2-2 at Anfield) where Xabi Alonso was left completely unmarked to do what he pleased during the whole game. That was very poor coaching. The back line under Jol was too deep. The team physical fitness was not that impressive, as well as their agression and mentality. You may rate Jol because he was the best coach you had in a lot of time, but Juande Ramos is better IMO and results will prove it.

People only claim we had the 5th best squad with hindsight. I assure you we weren't 5th favourites going into the 2005/6 season. And last year, even if you say we had the 5th best squad, our first team played comparitively less games than those of our rivals. For example check out how many games each of Blackburns favoured 1st 11 played compared to ours. Then see how many of those players would get into our 1st team last season. Yet we still finished 8 pts clear of them and played far more games, thanks to Jols poor cup performances (2 1/4 finals and a 1/2 final). As for the Liverpool game, we came within seconds of beating them, which means we are the team that has come closets to beating the at home this season, so if Jol was so poor with his coaching, what does that say about the other coaches (such as Wenger and Mourinho) who have taken teams to Anfield?

You say the physical fitness wasn't that impressive but how if this is the case we managed such impressive statistics? If we weren't agressive enough how come we were the second highest tackling team in the Prem last season and upto the point Jol left the top this season. When players like Steed Malbranque and JJ head the entire Prem tackling stats, as they did a month ago, it really shows that steel has been instilled in them. They are hardly players known for their aggressive nature, yet they were putting in more challenges than any other players in the whole league. To claim we lacked aggression is simply not true.

I don't think you are right to say "results will prove it," as I've said before this isn't fair on Ramos. To achieve 65 pts next season is going to be very difficult and if people start judging him in terms of results compare with Jols it will only be to the detriment of the club. If Ramos doesn't achieve the same results as Jol (which I doubt he will), it doesn't mean he isn't as good a coach. To me it means that there is something wrong at this club that isn't to do with the way the team is coached.

 

[N10toN17]

I see in this thread some people are blaming the forwards for not taking their chances, even though they've scored enough this season for us to be challenging for a top four spot, others are blaming the midfield, because they apparently don't shield our poor little defenders enough, the midfield also get blamed for not being creative enough, even though we score and create bundles.

If forwards miss chances, defenders don't get blamed, so why is it defenders aren't being blamed for defensive lapses?

Our defenders are not good enough, either collectively or individually. We need some experience, but it has apparently been deemed by someone at our club that we don't buy experienced players anymore because of age and sale on value. Now, I wonder who's the genius that has made that executive decision.

Top sides need a mixture of both youth and experience, someone tell the money men please, not that they'll listen, it's all about the bottom line and profit. Football results? Pah, they're not interested.

 

[Juande_Ramos]

People only claim we had the 5th best squad with hindsight. I assure you we weren't 5th favourites going into the 2005/6 season. And last year, even if you say we had the 5th best squad, our first team played comparitively less games than those of our rivals. For example check out how many games each of Blackburns favoured 1st 11 played compared to ours. Then see how many of those players would get into our 1st team last season. Yet we still finished 8 pts clear of them and played far more games, thanks to Jols poor cup performances (2 1/4 finals and a 1/2 final). As for the Liverpool game, we came within seconds of beating them, which means we are the team that has come closets to beating the at home this season, so if Jol was so poor with his coaching, what does that say about the other coaches (such as Wenger and Mourinho) who have taken teams to Anfield?

You say the physical fitness wasn't that impressive but how if this is the case we managed such impressive statistics? If we weren't agressive enough how come we were the second highest tackling team in the Prem last season and upto the point Jol left the top this season. When players like Steed Malbranque and JJ head the entire Prem tackling stats, as they did a month ago, it really shows that steel has been instilled in them. They are hardly players known for their aggressive nature, yet they were putting in more challenges than any other players in the whole league. To claim we lacked aggression is simply not true.

I don't think you are right to say "results will prove it," as I've said before this isn't fair on Ramos. To achieve 65 pts next season is going to be very difficult and if people start judging him in terms of results compare with Jols it will only be to the detriment of the club. If Ramos doesn't achieve the same results as Jol (which I doubt he will), it doesn't mean he isn't as good a coach. To me it means that there is something wrong at this club that isn't to do with the way the team is coached.

Dead easy. With two CBs different from Dawson and Kabul and a new quick goalkeeper to allow the back four to play a high line Spurs will easily get that amount of points.
And Blackburn are nowhere near Spurs quality wise.

 

[lukespurs7]

2nd only to the food poisioning!

GUTTED ABSOLOUTLEY GUTTED!
Todays match and the horrible feeling after the final whistle was 2nd only to the food poisioning incident which kept us out the champions league a few seasons back!

I thought that 1st half we really dominated them, I know my opinion may obviously be biased but i really don't feel Kaboul fouled him for a start! 1st half we had something like 15 attempts to their 2, not all clear cut, but attempts all the same!

I thought Ramos team selection was ambitions, a tad lop-sided exposing Bale, but we were playing exciting attacking football and they bearly had a sniff of our goal apart from that unfair penalty! 2nd half he again turned it around with his substitutions, Keane was on fire, we were 2-1 up and i was just about happy.

Then some shambolic defending and it was 2-2 still a very unfair scoreline and then one of the worst refereeing decesions i've ever seen to send Keane off, at the time i was shouting that it wasn't even a free kick as he clearly won the ball never mind a free kick or a fucking red card, a disgrace and a joke.

Even with 10men i had hope of another goal but unfortuenately they scored it and yet again a sickening last-minute wonder-strike flys into our net FOR FUCKS SAKE!

YES our defence still needs some work and YES we are still conceding too many goals but AGAIN we deserved to win, AGAIN a flipping wonder-striker and AGAIN it's in the last fucking minute!

Appaling ref and bad luck has left me feeling sick! All hopes in the league of virtually anything have been dashed, our 6 game unbeaten run is ruined and with Man.City coming next we really needed those 3 points if we were to scrape a UEFA cup spot somehow.

O well I hope to goodness we stay up and you never know we are still in the cups and o yea there's always fucking next year.

Hate supporting this club sometimes!

We have a good manager and a promising,talented young squad. We will go places but this season is a bit of a disaster.



anyone got anything positive to cheer me up.

 

[don1]

shin up lad u could be supporting Derby County

we wont get a UEFA spot through the league but might through the cups our luck has to chance soom there is no way we can go on like this much longer with the team we have

 

[LSUY]

our luck has to chance soom there is no way we can go on like this much longer with the team we have

West Ham fans said the same when they had Joe Cole, Defoe, Kanoute, Carrick, Di Canio and James.

 

[shelfmonkey]

Angst filled ref decisions...
I don't want this locked, but that red card was a farce.

Juve was investigated and Serie A was found guilty of widespread match fixing. Match fixing is not unheard of in the Premiership (remember Bruce Grobbelar?). Organized crime casts a wide net, particularly from Asia and Eastern Europe...

Is it possible that that referee's crew had undue pressure to give the Brummie's a hand?... Bittertness from today's loss is driving my post here, but can we discuss if this is possible without locking this thread?

That call was that bad. :violin:

this was a thread I tried to start, but it was closed...

P.S. can someone revoke Kaboul's passport?...

I seriously doubt that there was some shady hand behind Dowd's decision to send off Keane, it's just that we have a history as long as Seven Sisters Rd of utterly shite decisions against us and as for 'it all evens itself out over a season', that's complete bollocks, for some teams (particularly those that play in r*d) favourable decisions are almost expected each week.

 

[joey55]

Dead easy. With two CBs different from Dawson and Kabul and a new quick goalkeeper to allow the back four to play a high line Spurs will easily get that amount of points.
And Blackburn are nowhere near Spurs quality wise.

When Jol had quality at CB (ie King was fit), we won 49 pts from 26 games in 2005/6 and 39 pts from 21 games last season. This means we averaged 1.9 pts in 2005/6 and 1.85 pts in 2006/7. This give season totals of 72 pts and 70pts. Both seasons running this is a higher total than Wenger managed and Arsenal didn't play a single game in either season without a top class CB similar to King. Last season it means we averaged more pts per game than Liverpool. To say it will be dead easy even if get 2 different CBs is just proof you have little knowledge of the Premiership.

 

[SpurSince57]

Spurs had easily the fith best squad in the League. Martin Jol in terms of League position did just ok, but was poor in the Cups.
I am basing my opinion on how his team played the times I watched them full games, generally against the top sides. I rememeber one game against Liverpool (2-2 at Anfield) where Xabi Alonso was left completely unmarked to do what he pleased during the whole game. That was very poor coaching. The back line under Jol was too deep. The team physical fitness was not that impressive, as well as their agression and mentality. You may rate Jol because he was the best coach you had in a lot of time, but Juande Ramos is better IMO and results will prove it.

I'll have to correct you there.

We certainly didn't have the fifth-best squad in the league in 2005-2006, and unless you happened to have been wearing your super-strength Spurs-tints it wasn't the fifth-best last season either; in fact, it's arguable that the signings we made in the summer of 2006 strengthened us very much at all. We were also hammered by injuries last season, particularly in defence and midfield, yet competed largely successfully over 60 games, and equalled our best-ever final twelve games of a season (achieved in 1951). In 2004-2005, Jol's partial first season, our PPG after he took over was only fractionally inferior to Liverpool's under Benitez; Spurs went from 14th the previous season to 9th, Liverpool from third to fifth. Jol also had a 74% success record in cup games; agreed, we didn't win anything, but in terms of games won that's pretty impressive, and as far as Spurs are concerned, inferior only to Bill Nicholson and Graham (who was a rubbish league manager for us, but whom even I have to admit was pretty good in the cups).

We (or rather some of us) were led to believe that this summer's signings had given us a squad easily able to challenge for fourth place. Patently, they have not, and, having successfully undermined Jol, our board was able to fob off the blame on him. Juande is now finding out the unpleasant truth.

We should not be drawing comparisons between Martin and Juande. What we should be questioning is whether the board is willing to back the judgement of its coach/manager and sporting director. At the moment, it seems to me that Levy and ENIC are far mainly interested in maximising profits and merely paying lip-service to success on the pitch.

 

[Juande_Ramos]

When Jol had quality at CB (ie King was fit), we won 49 pts from 26 games in 2005/6 and 39 pts from 21 games last season. This means we averaged 1.9 pts in 2005/6 and 1.85 pts in 2006/7. This give season totals of 72 pts and 70pts. Both seasons running this is a higher total than Wenger managed and Arsenal didn't play a single game in either season without a top class CB similar to King. Last season it means we averaged more pts per game than Liverpool. To say it will be dead easy even if get 2 different CBs is just proof you have little knowledge of the Premiership.

Or you don't have much knowdledge about how much better Juande Ramos is than Jol. :wink: The future will tell.

Mi opinion of the Premiership is that most of the teams are rubbish, and any decent team should win most games in this league. And I am sure Juande Ramos will make out of Spurs a very decent team. Moreover, I can see you winning against the top four some games, even as soon as this season, with someone decent at center back, thing that Jol never managed in 3 years if I am not mistaken.
I think you beat Chelsea once...

 

[double0]

Our problems are very simple and the solution is simple... better quality in the back 5. We could have the best manager in world football and he would struggle to achieve a top half finish, forget about the position asked of by the board, with a goal keeper and defender in the form of Robinson and Dawson, its an impossible remit.