The price is too high

spids said:

What will be?

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riggi said:

Life as we know it Jim.

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spud said:

I don’t care.

Three words that I never thought I would say, or even think. But it’s true: I don’t care. What don’t I care about? Whether we win our next game. Whether we win the league. Whether we get into the CL. Whether we win the FA Cup or the Europa League. I never thought it would be possible for it to come to this, but it has.

I’m fairly old. So I’ve been following, supporting and watching Spurs for a long time. I’ve been at Wembley and the Lane when we’ve won trophies; I’ve seen us lose finals and semi-finals. I’ve seen us relegated and promoted. I’ve watched some great players and some shit ones, some good teams and bad ones. But I’ve never seen anything like this season’s Tottenham.

I want to win trophies. It’s embarrassing that we haven’t won anything since 2008 and that we haven’t won the Cup since 1991. It’s obvious to say that a club of our size should be competing for trophies most years and winning them on a fairly regular basis. It’s why Jose Mourinho is our manager. We don’t have to like him. We just have to respect his CV and trust in the idea that he will make our ‘nearly men’ of recent years into winners.

That’s what I did. I’ve never liked him and I don’t like him now. I think he’s a prick. But he’s our prick and we have to get behind him. So I supported his appointment and reasoned that I could put up with ‘Mourinho-ball’ because, as far as winning trophies is concerned, the end justifies the means. All-out attack hasn’t worked. Pragmatism, I told myself, is fine.

Only we aren’t watching pragmatism. Pragmatism is adapting to the prevailing circumstances in order to achieve the desired result. Pragmatism is adjusting how you play depending upon the opponent. In simplistic terms (and as a rule of thumb), pragmatism is attacking teams that are weaker than you and defending against those that are stronger. We aren’t pragmatic.

We have a ‘plan A’. If that isn’t working then……we stay with ‘plan A’. Plan A is simple: don’t concede a goal and rely on our world-class forwards to get one. Then don’t concede a goal. If we concede a goal, don’t panic. Don’t concede another one and hope that our world-class forwards get at least one goal; hopefully more than one. We don’t have any strategy of how to attack apart from ‘get it up to the forwards as fast as possible’.

The reason that I don’t like this is simple: it’s cowardice. We’re scared of losing. We are afraid of trying to win. Our objective is to avoid defeat – preferably with a clean sheet - and hope that we can score one or two more than the opposition.

I remember having a conversation with an Arsenal fan in the days before Wenger took over. He admitted that he wished his club played more attacking football but he justified the fact that they didn’t – the fact that they had been defence-first for as long as anybody could remember – by winning something now and again and never having been relegated. He knew there was a better way – it was three miles down the road – but didn’t want to admit it. That was the way things were. He lived with it.

Are we going to have to live with it? I can’t. If this is the price of winning trophies, then I’m sorry but the price is too high. We’re sacrificing what we are for the promise of a pot or two. We’re selling our soul. We’re abandoning our history because we haven’t won anything for a while. We’re in danger of not being Tottenham any more. Bill Nicholson will be turning in his grave.

I know most of you – if you’ve bothered to read this far – won’t agree. ‘Stupid old bastard’ you’ll say; ‘he’s talking bollocks. It’s all about winning’. Well, yes and no. Of course it’s about winning, but it’s about more than that. I realise it’s a cliché, but I’ll sign off with the famous quote from our famous captain.

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Audere est facere.

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spids said:

Not impressed by anyone making light of the Covid pandemic whilst so many people are dying.

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thebenjamin said:

This is the problem though with not having a consistent philosophy. We spent 6 years trying to dominate possession, playing attacking press high football, now we're changing the squad to find the right players for low block, little posession counter attack football. So when josé goes,what do we do? Go back to high press attacking possession football and need to completely turn the squad over again?

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spud said:

I don’t care.

Three words that I never thought I would say, or even think. But it’s true: I don’t care. What don’t I care about? Whether we win our next game. Whether we win the league. Whether we get into the CL. Whether we win the FA Cup or the Europa League. I never thought it would be possible for it to come to this, but it has.

I’m fairly old. So I’ve been following, supporting and watching Spurs for a long time. I’ve been at Wembley and the Lane when we’ve won trophies; I’ve seen us lose finals and semi-finals. I’ve seen us relegated and promoted. I’ve watched some great players and some shit ones, some good teams and bad ones. But I’ve never seen anything like this season’s Tottenham.

I want to win trophies. It’s embarrassing that we haven’t won anything since 2008 and that we haven’t won the Cup since 1991. It’s obvious to say that a club of our size should be competing for trophies most years and winning them on a fairly regular basis. It’s why Jose Mourinho is our manager. We don’t have to like him. We just have to respect his CV and trust in the idea that he will make our ‘nearly men’ of recent years into winners.

That’s what I did. I’ve never liked him and I don’t like him now. I think he’s a prick. But he’s our prick and we have to get behind him. So I supported his appointment and reasoned that I could put up with ‘Mourinho-ball’ because, as far as winning trophies is concerned, the end justifies the means. All-out attack hasn’t worked. Pragmatism, I told myself, is fine.

Only we aren’t watching pragmatism. Pragmatism is adapting to the prevailing circumstances in order to achieve the desired result. Pragmatism is adjusting how you play depending upon the opponent. In simplistic terms (and as a rule of thumb), pragmatism is attacking teams that are weaker than you and defending against those that are stronger. We aren’t pragmatic.

We have a ‘plan A’. If that isn’t working then……we stay with ‘plan A’. Plan A is simple: don’t concede a goal and rely on our world-class forwards to get one. Then don’t concede a goal. If we concede a goal, don’t panic. Don’t concede another one and hope that our world-class forwards get at least one goal; hopefully more than one. We don’t have any strategy of how to attack apart from ‘get it up to the forwards as fast as possible’.

The reason that I don’t like this is simple: it’s cowardice. We’re scared of losing. We are afraid of trying to win. Our objective is to avoid defeat – preferably with a clean sheet - and hope that we can score one or two more than the opposition.

I remember having a conversation with an Arsenal fan in the days before Wenger took over. He admitted that he wished his club played more attacking football but he justified the fact that they didn’t – the fact that they had been defence-first for as long as anybody could remember – by winning something now and again and never having been relegated. He knew there was a better way – it was three miles down the road – but didn’t want to admit it. That was the way things were. He lived with it.

Are we going to have to live with it? I can’t. If this is the price of winning trophies, then I’m sorry but the price is too high. We’re sacrificing what we are for the promise of a pot or two. We’re selling our soul. We’re abandoning our history because we haven’t won anything for a while. We’re in danger of not being Tottenham any more. Bill Nicholson will be turning in his grave.

I know most of you – if you’ve bothered to read this far – won’t agree. ‘Stupid old bastard’ you’ll say; ‘he’s talking bollocks. It’s all about winning’. Well, yes and no. Of course it’s about winning, but it’s about more than that. I realise it’s a cliché, but I’ll sign off with the famous quote from our famous captain.

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Audere est facere.

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walworthyid said:

I said virtually the same thing a couple of days ago.

I totally agree. The price is too high.

When was the last time you enjoyed one of our games? Or even looked forward to watching us play?

That says it all for me. Clubs are more than what trophies they win. There is a soul, a heart, a sense of identity. It transcends everything.

I would go 50 tears without a trophy rather than sacrifice our identity for a carling cup!

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Wheeler Dealer said:

I was also at that Coventry game, i think was 2000-1 season and we lost 2 - 0?. The atmosphere was toxic and not long after GG was sacked and replaced by Hoddle. The difference between then and now is that the GG team was shite, whereas todays squad with the right tactics, strategy and application has all the ability to be successful and play decent football.

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HildoSpur said:

Sorry but I couldnt disagree more - it is totally worth it IF we win something. If we don't then I'm totally on board with this.

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walworthyid said:

What are we likely to win? The carling Cup? OK, so we beat man City and win it. Then what? How memorable would that honestly be?

Our last 5 seasons under poch have been memorable. Exciting. Amazing. Yet we won nothing.

We won the carling up in 2008 during a very mediocre period. What did it change? Did we challenge to win something else the following season?

Arsenal have won 3 fa cups in the last few years yet their fans are unhappy. Would you swap our time under poch for arsenal's 3 cups over the same period?

I wouldn't. Not for a second.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

True but Chelsea have chopped and changed managers and styles pretty dramatically for the past 10-15 years and win trophies all the time, the key is they’ve had billions of pounds to spend on quality players.

if a new manager came in and wanted up to press higher with possession football and he has players like the following I think he’d be fine and would just need to add a few players to tweak to his style as most mangers need to do when they inherit a new squad:
Regullion, Dier, PEH, GLC, Ndombele, Son, Bergwijn, Kane, pretty sure that core of players would be more than able to adapt to a high pressing possession stye if needed so as long as we keep adding quality players I wouldn’t worry too much mate.

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Geyzer Soze said:

The most i ever enjoyed football was the redknapp years tbh. Won nothing, had no real hope of winning anything, but I loved it

Now.. Meh actually haven't watched a game for more than a year. Follow results only, bite me. Don't like Mourinho, or his brand of football. never have and never will

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Stamford said:

For a club that hasn't won't a lot we have far too much entitlement in our fan base

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walworthyid said:

I said virtually the same thing a couple of days ago.

I totally agree. The price is too high.

When was the last time you enjoyed one of our games? Or even looked forward to watching us play?

That says it all for me. Clubs are more than what trophies they win. There is a soul, a heart, a sense of identity. It transcends everything.

I would go 50 tears without a trophy rather than sacrifice our identity for a carling cup!

Click to expand...