The price is too high

[Metalhead]

I don’t care.

Three words that I never thought I would say, or even think. But it’s true: I don’t care. What don’t I care about? Whether we win our next game. Whether we win the league. Whether we get into the CL. Whether we win the FA Cup or the Europa League. I never thought it would be possible for it to come to this, but it has.

I’m fairly old. So I’ve been following, supporting and watching Spurs for a long time. I’ve been at Wembley and the Lane when we’ve won trophies; I’ve seen us lose finals and semi-finals. I’ve seen us relegated and promoted. I’ve watched some great players and some shit ones, some good teams and bad ones. But I’ve never seen anything like this season’s Tottenham.

I want to win trophies. It’s embarrassing that we haven’t won anything since 2008 and that we haven’t won the Cup since 1991. It’s obvious to say that a club of our size should be competing for trophies most years and winning them on a fairly regular basis. It’s why Jose Mourinho is our manager. We don’t have to like him. We just have to respect his CV and trust in the idea that he will make our ‘nearly men’ of recent years into winners.

That’s what I did. I’ve never liked him and I don’t like him now. I think he’s a prick. But he’s our prick and we have to get behind him. So I supported his appointment and reasoned that I could put up with ‘Mourinho-ball’ because, as far as winning trophies is concerned, the end justifies the means. All-out attack hasn’t worked. Pragmatism, I told myself, is fine.

Only we aren’t watching pragmatism. Pragmatism is adapting to the prevailing circumstances in order to achieve the desired result. Pragmatism is adjusting how you play depending upon the opponent. In simplistic terms (and as a rule of thumb), pragmatism is attacking teams that are weaker than you and defending against those that are stronger. We aren’t pragmatic.

We have a ‘plan A’. If that isn’t working then……we stay with ‘plan A’. Plan A is simple: don’t concede a goal and rely on our world-class forwards to get one. Then don’t concede a goal. If we concede a goal, don’t panic. Don’t concede another one and hope that our world-class forwards get at least one goal; hopefully more than one. We don’t have any strategy of how to attack apart from ‘get it up to the forwards as fast as possible’.

The reason that I don’t like this is simple: it’s cowardice. We’re scared of losing. We are afraid of trying to win. Our objective is to avoid defeat – preferably with a clean sheet - and hope that we can score one or two more than the opposition.

I remember having a conversation with an Arsenal fan in the days before Wenger took over. He admitted that he wished his club played more attacking football but he justified the fact that they didn’t – the fact that they had been defence-first for as long as anybody could remember – by winning something now and again and never having been relegated. He knew there was a better way – it was three miles down the road – but didn’t want to admit it. That was the way things were. He lived with it.

Are we going to have to live with it? I can’t. If this is the price of winning trophies, then I’m sorry but the price is too high. We’re sacrificing what we are for the promise of a pot or two. We’re selling our soul. We’re abandoning our history because we haven’t won anything for a while. We’re in danger of not being Tottenham any more. Bill Nicholson will be turning in his grave.

I know most of you – if you’ve bothered to read this far – won’t agree. ‘Stupid old bastard’ you’ll say; ‘he’s talking bollocks. It’s all about winning’. Well, yes and no. Of course it’s about winning, but it’s about more than that. I realise it’s a cliché, but I’ll sign off with the famous quote from our famous captain.

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Audere est facere.

Aha - a Mourinho part 2 thread!

I think that if we had won more trophies over the last 30 years then we might be more choosy but personally I am happy to see us try something different as I'm tired of "good old Spurs, they play nice football - never win anything though".

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Aha - a Mourinho part 2 thread!

I think that if we had won more trophies over the last 30 years then we might be more choosy but personally I am happy to see us try something different as I'm tired of "good old Spurs, they play nice football - never win anything though".

Seems like a % of our own fans are of the same mind set as those who often echo this sentiment.

 

[shelfboy68]

I'm in my fifties so I have seen us win a fair bit in my time although we have also under achieved on a grand scale.
I'm happy to see a pragmatic approach if it brings success, after all what have we achieved in decades by playing fancy football that was often gutless.
I think we need to give the management time to build a side which has started with us being harder to beat which has shown in the defence stats.

 

[dontcallme]

I am starting to see each manager, disaster aside, as having 3-4 years in charge. The first season is a bit of a throwaway season. Numerous managers including Klopp and Poch had a lot of inconsistencies in their first season.

We know Poch liked the high press but due to the squad Chadli and Townsend both played a lot of games that season. By the next season he'd settled in and we'd shown real improvement.

So yes I get it that Jose's style isn't great right now. The way he builds the team and sets us up tactically is very frustrating when we lose. But he is a seriously successful manager and I'd be gutted if we didn't see this through.

If after 3 seasons we're not showing real improvement or competing then he goes. Jose is experienced and he needs to get the transfer windows right. One or two signings and we'll be defensively stronger which will give us the freedom to attack a bit more.

A call for patience is what we need right now. Not a manager change.

 

[Dougal]

Sign me up for the ‘Stupid Old Bastard’ club.

 

[Metalhead]

I'm in my fifties so I have seen us win a fair bit in my time although we have also under achieved on a grand scale.
I'm happy to see a pragmatic approach if it brings success, after all what have we achieved in decades by playing fancy football that was often gutless.
I think we need to give the management time to build a side which has started with us being harder to beat which has shown in the defence stats.

That's how I feel. I'm not far off 50 and yes, we've had our moments but overall, the theme definitely is underachievers. I don't think that there is anyone on here who doesn't respect Bill Nicholson's achievements, even if they weren't around to witness the glory glory side of 60-61. In some ways, just like with Alf Ramsay's achievement some years later, it is both a feeling of pride and also something that we will live under until we have a side that matches it.

Some people are very much for tradition and the tradition says that Spurs play attractive, free flowing football. My own personal feeling is that football has changed a lot over the last 50 or 60 years. There is a lot about the old WHL that I miss - I'll never forget the first time that I walked up the concrete steps onto what were the terraces and it was magic. I saw some great football and some great players but not many trophies. What I want and I am personally happy to see any kind of style to achieve is trophies.

Brian Clough once told some successful Leeds players to throw away their medals because they didn't deserve them. Much as I admire Cloughie and all that he achieved - would Leeds fans swap what they won under Revie?

 

[Tucker]

Do we really need another thread moaning about Mourinho and our style of play? Couldn’t this have been posted in the myriad of other threads where this is already being discussed ad nausiem?

 

[Metalhead]

Seems like a % of our own fans are of the same mind set as those who often echo this sentiment.

And that's ok - it's not like we are going to be playing a particular style of football forever. A significant proportion on here think that he won't last long anyway so that begs the question, why get so wound up?

 

[John48]

Here is another old bastard (I'm 73) who is in full agreement.

I too am am older member (72) & I'm in agreement with the sentiments expressed.

Jose approach could only be justified if we were winning games & looking like we would win trophies, but the fact is we are giving away points because we are too cautious.

 

[dontcallme]

I too am am older member (72) & I'm in agreement with the sentiments expressed.

Jose approach could only be justified if we were winning games & looking like we would win trophies, but the fact is we are giving away points because we are too cautious.

I think we're giving away points because this is his first season.

Pretty much every manager throws away points in their first season.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

And that's ok - it's not like we are going to be playing a particular style of football forever. A significant proportion on here think that he won't last long anyway so that begs the question, why get so wound up?

Why bother posting at all then?

?

 

[Sum Monsterism]

It’s embarrassing that we haven’t won anything since 2008 and that we haven’t won the Cup since 1991.

But, really, none of it matters.

It's only entertainment, and if it hurts for more than five mins afterwards I'd have a very long look at why I felt that way about something that really doesn't matter.

 

[Hazelton]

Unless you're in a relegation struggle, it's pointless to judge any manager until the end of the season, especially when you're one win away from lifting a trophy. I'll judge him once all is said and done.

 

[spids]

Firstly, I would rather re-live a Poch, Jol or Redknapp season than either of our last cup winning seasons under Ramos and Graham.

I do think Mourinho’s tactics are cowardly but ultimately will be effective, but only if he has top players who are committed. Currently we have weaknesses at RB, CB, CM and RWF that need to be addressed before this safety first, counter attacking football can win anything. The fact we’re only 6 points off the top, in the League cup final, the FA Cup 4th round and the Europa League knockout stages despite playing pretty poorly for large periods and dropping stack loads of points from winning positions shows how close we are, and a world class CB, a partner for Højbjerg to replace Winks and Sissoko, and a RWF who can do what Son does from the left, and we can win a lot. We’ve come a long way since Levy took over and our season was often over after the FA Cup 3rd round weekend early in Jan.

But, in the current Covid pandemic world, I need entertainment more than results. With WFH and home schooling, and having not seen family and friends since last Feb (we’re fully shielding as the wife is clinically vulnerable), it has been a real struggle. Spurs games are my beacon of light in what is shitty week, after shitty week. And if we sneak a goal and then cling on for a 1-0 win today it will literally really ruin my week. I need to see skill and verve and ambition. I have considered stopping watching our games as our tactics are genuinely having a negative impact of my wellbeing and mental health. Normally, I’d go and have a pint with mates and discuss a game and get a bad performance out of my system, but now I have to suck it up and go back to entertaining two kids who are bouncing off the walls. Come on Jose, show some balls and smash Sheff Utd to bits today!

 

[Metalhead]

Why bother posting at all then?

?

I honestly don't know. Maybe they aren't confident that he will go as quickly as they want him too.

 

[Metalhead]

Firstly, I would rather re-live a Poch, Jol or Redknapp season than either of our last cup winning seasons under Ramos and Graham.

I do think Mourinho’s tactics are cowardly but ultimately will be effective, but only if he has top players who are committed. Currently we have weaknesses at RB, CB, CM and RWF that need to be addressed before this safety first, counter attacking football can win anything. The fact we’re only 6 points off the top, in the League cup final, the FA Cup 4th round and the Europa League knockout stages despite playing pretty poorly for large periods and dropping stack loads of points from winning positions shows how close we are, and a world class CB, a partner for Højbjerg to replace Winks and Sissoko, and a RWF who can do what Son does from the left, and we can win a lot. We’ve come a long way since Levy took over and our season was often over after the FA Cup 3rd round weekend early in Jan.

But, in the current Covid pandemic world, I need entertainment more than results. With WFH and home schooling, and having not seen family and friends since last Feb (we’re fully shielding as the wife is clinically vulnerable), it has been a real struggle. Spurs games are my beacon of light in what is shitty week, after shitty week. And if we sneak a goal and then cling on for a 1-0 win today it will literally really ruin my week. I need to see skill and verve and ambition. I have considered stopping watching our games as our tactics are genuinely having a negative impact of my wellbeing and mental health. Normally, I’d go and have a pint with mates and discuss a game and get a bad performance out of my system, but now I have to suck it up and go back to entertaining two kids who are bouncing off the walls. Come on Jose, show some balls and smash Sheff Utd to bits today!

I can definitely relate on the covid front. I don't usually go out for a pint these days even in normal times but everything you have described from the two kids to home schooling to not having seen family for over a year I can relate to.

 

[riggi]

God you’re all so dramatic. It’ll be over in a year.

 

[dontcallme]

God you’re all so dramatic. It’ll be over in a year.

Your new year's resolution to become the voice of reason is never going to happen.

 

[riggi]

Your new year's resolution to become the voice of reason is never going to happen.

I’ll stick with top notch itk.

 

[dontcallme]

I’ll stick with top notch itk.

Is there somewhere I can sign up to your newsletter? I don’t think you have been verified on this site.