Match Threads Spurs vs West Brom- Match Thread - Day 22

tooey · Feb 7, 2021

anydange said:
not quite stoned enough it seems.

Never quite stoned enough, there's no such thing.

Shadydan · Feb 7, 2021

Archibald&Crooks said:
Everything gets put under the microscope. To ridiculous levels. A few years ago, In the player ratings thread after each game, SC went through a spell where ratings out of ten were fucking laughable. People weren't giving 6 out of 10, it was 6.3 out of 10 or 5.4 out of 10.

Honestly.

SC = Special Community

C0YS · Feb 7, 2021

tooey said:
You're wasting your time, these people haven't kicked a football in their lives if they honestly think that was a bad defensive display. Just because an offside is close, it doesn't make it any less offside.

The thing is it wasn't a better defensive display than past games, the big difference was today we didn't put ourselves under constant pressure, we played out from the back and kept possession. So we were never really exposed.

It's only WBA, but very positive.

TropicalYid · Feb 7, 2021

Great with 3 points today. And we dominated, as we should.
But there is still a long way to go.
Im not shure our shaky defense would cope with facing a better team.
And the Kane/son dependence is worrying .

anydange · Feb 7, 2021

tooey said:
Never quite stoned enough, there's no such thing.

As a fellow stoner I agree

WiganSpur · Feb 7, 2021

Decided against watching the game but absolutely delighted with the result. This team has many many problems and I remain unconvinced Jose is the man to take us forwards but I really fucking didn't want us changing coach mid season yet again. Hopefully we remain competent enough to have an OK if unspectacular season with a manager change happening in the summer. If Jose really turns things around then fantastic but I am still doubtful based on the past few weeks.

lis spur · Feb 7, 2021

tooey said:
I'm 3 joints deep, I'm basically melted, let alone chillaxed. I'm just saying that any body who thought Sanchez was "lucky" is a complete moron, that's all.

Hi moron here ; my complaints about the defence is the ease with which the crosses were put in, we didn't attack the crosses and I include the keeper in that .Delighted with the victory ,however there are always things to build on.Enjoy your afternoon.

JamieSpursCommunityUser · Feb 7, 2021

Archibald&Crooks said:
Everything gets put under the microscope. To ridiculous levels. A few years ago, In the player ratings thread after each game, SC went through a spell where ratings out of ten were fucking laughable. People weren't giving 6 out of 10, it was 6.3 out of 10 or 5.4 out of 10.

Honestly.

God I miss going to games.

I think that was bad defending.
I think you're wrong, look.
Oh yes, so I was. Pint?

Rather than getting sniped at like we're on Question Time debating the f-ing death penalty.

Anyway much needed win. Not flawless, but hugely improved attitude and tempo for 70 minutes.

COYS.

Ionman34 · Feb 7, 2021

Japhet said:
Think that should dispel the rumour that the players weren't trying. We showed that we're capable of playing on the front foot and there was plenty of intensity and effort. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

Quite the opposite for me Japhet. The performance today was a marked improvement precisely because the players put the effort in. The intensity was higher, the movement off the ball much better (no traffic cones out there today), the cohesion, communication and intent to work as a team all improved. JM hasn’t magically coached that into them in 2 days, they just raised their effort levels and it showed.

C0YS · Feb 7, 2021

Trix said:
I'm not his biggest fan but he did well today. You're right it's a preconceived analysis from some today. He's been shit in the past therefore he must have been today.

The thing is Sanchez is a capable defender in many aspects, what he is not good at is sitting deep and dealing with constant balls into the box. He wasn't bought for that, he was bought for his ability 1v1 and his pace, as those things were important under Poch, less so under Jose. Today he looked good, but in large part, because we kept the ball, we didn't just kick it long and invite pressure on us. Having a ballplayer like Ndombele helps, but more than that, it's not really a personnel thing, something clearly happened, there was no 'safety first I'm going to clear it out' sort of thing, we were more patient we played from the back and therefore our defence didn't have to be defending for, like 60 minutes a game like we normally do and we managed to create more chances too.

Our defence isn't perfect, but it's not horrible. In terms of goals conceded we are second in the league, we haven't even conceded many goals in any game. Only Liverpool have got three past us. The perception that our defence is bad comes from the fact our defence is caught out making mistakes, but they make mistakes after long periods of time being attacked without a moments rest, of course, you make mistakes, unless you have a truly exceptional defence, you will if you play like that, because you're doing so much defending. Find a pass from the defence, don't play a long ball unless a long ball is clearly on. Don't clear the ball unless under pressure to clear it, make movement patterns so defenders automatically know where to pass it to, all of these things are what most teams do these days and it's stuff we haven't really done before, and for me, this was confirmed by the insider source reporting to the independent (fully believe the source because I understand how journalism works and it confirms what we've seen before this season). Today that seemed to change, that is more important than who plays where. A consequence of playing less quickly, is I suspect we won't see quite as many Kane Son combinations, but I think we will be better for it, and better to watch too. WBA are probably the worst team in the league mind. So, lets see what happens.

Strikeb4ck · Feb 7, 2021

ardiles&villa said:
What’s the point supporting us if your upset when we win

I'm not upset we won, I just don't agree with the overly positive sentiment here and after telling everyone the win vs Sheffield United was not worth getting crazy about as it relates to what performance level we can expect against non-shit teams (and getting told I was a moron then too), I just don't understand how people disregard opposition quality so much.

Of course our players our going to look more energetic and better on the ball today. We had 70% possession instead of 30% for a change.

Strikeb4ck · Feb 7, 2021

Archibald&Crooks said:
Nobody has said that. Nobody. So that it sinks in, i'll say it again. Nobody has said that. Just you. Which makes the rest of your post bollocks. What is it with some people? Should we refrain from enjoying this or saying anything positive just because of the quality of the opposition?

Where were you when we lost to Liverpool, or when we lose to one of the top sides? Where were you with. "newsflash, we're playing the champions' and then complaining at all the negativity and telling us that the mood will change when we play some really crappy team? I'll tell you where.......fucking nowhere.

Fuck my old boots. Fuck them, jizz over the laces and then slap them on the heels.

I didn't think it was that bad. We had a gameplan that has worked very well against big teams and today it didn't work out.

The first half was fine...they had a couple moments but the biggest one would have been called back for Mane being offside in the buildup. Apart from that it wasn't as if they looked like they would inevitably score. We had the Son goal harshly disallowed, and apart from that there were SEVERAL chances to get a through ball behind their defense and score - the final ball just wasn't good enough and 3 or 4 times it was just a really poor pass under minimal pressure, so I think that was disappointing.

The game swung in stoppage time in the first half. Just a disastrous goal to concede and one very sloppy moment at the back. Doherty started it off keeping everyone onside but even then, the fact that neither Lloris or Dier get that ball cleared is pathetic. Just shambolic stuff. That moment cost us the match.

It was always going to be a game where the first goal won it. Neither team can break down a low block, as we've seen the past month or two. Liverpool got the goal today, but I honestly think that had the Son goal counted, we walk away with a 1-1 at the absolute minimum.

So in that sense I'm not upset with the first half gameplan. The final ball was really disappointing, and the goal we conceded was pathetic, but apart from that I thought things were fairly comfortable.

The second half of course, was pathetic. Kane coming off, Aurier coming off, the formation switch that pitted Doherty vs Mane, Winks coming in...absolutely killed us. Had no chance from the 45th minute onwards. Our goal was just a wonderstrike, but we didn't create a thing and they could easily have had more on the counter.

The thing is, it doesn't surprise me at all. We can't break down teams when they sit in. We are vulnerable on the counter with that back 4 we had the 2nd half. The end result was pretty predictable when we stepped out with that 11 2nd half down 1-0 against a team that can counter like Liverpool can. It's very disappointing that we can't play better when we're not counterattacking ourselves, and that we can't dominate teams, but I'm used to it at this point.

Ultimately, the first goal was vital, and we didn't get it. On another day with better passing and without that terrible Hugo/Dier messup we probably get something sometimes playing like that. But there's still a pretty clear gap in quality between the sides, and Jose's problem is that when you lose games playing like this, you don't get the forgiveness you do when losing games playing like we did under Poch.

Here's my post in the Liverpool game match thread. Wow! Not what fits your narrative here huh?

I can make a MS Paint collage next to disprove your first point about people not having a rosy outlook on Spurs again. If we didn't have City up next I'd imagine there would be posts about being back in the league title race.

C0YS · Feb 7, 2021

Strikeb4ck said:
I'm not upset we won, I just don't agree with the overly positive sentiment here and after telling everyone the win vs Sheffield United was not worth getting crazy about as it relates to what performance level we can expect against non-shit teams (and getting told I was a moron then too), I just don't understand how people disregard opposition quality so much.

Of course our players our going to look more energetic and better on the ball today. We had 70% possession instead of 30% for a change.

Yeah and the question is if this marks the start of a change of style, maybe even reintroducing dele at N.10 etc or if it's just opposition was bad and we will revert to before in the next games. We will see. But I think it is promising.

Strikeb4ck · Feb 7, 2021

C0YS said:
Yeah and the question is if this marks the start of a change of style, maybe even reintroducing dele at N.10 etc or if it's just opposition was bad and we will revert to before in the next games. We will see. But I think it is promising.

I guess that's where the disagreement lies. WBA is a free 3 points. Anything besides a win is a disaster. Just my opinion, but still. They genuinely have the worst underlying defensive statistics since advanced tracking data became available.

I think performances like Fulham and Newcastle where we could have scored 6+ on both occasions are promising, even if in both cases we somehow managed to draw. Even our attacking play vs Palace was better than today, I thought. I just don't see what the point is in reading anything into a 2-0 win over WBA is. Maybe if we had done it without Kane there could be something to take from it.

allatsea · Feb 7, 2021

spursfan77 said:
It’s tiresome. We’ve had nothing to cheer about in the league for what feels like ages. Predictable, but can we just not enjoy a win? It feels a lot better than the last few games that’s for sure. Maybe some just wanted us to lose?

It is clear the hatred by some of Mourinho means they don’t want us to win.

Wearegoingtowintheleague · Feb 7, 2021

Archibald&Crooks said:
Everything gets put under the microscope. To ridiculous levels. A few years ago, In the player ratings thread after each game, SC went through a spell where ratings out of ten were fucking laughable. People weren't giving 6 out of 10, it was 6.3 out of 10 or 5.4 out of 10.

Honestly.

I'll give you a generous 5.9 for this post.

cider spurs · Feb 7, 2021

Strikeb4ck said:
I'm not upset we won, I just don't agree with the overly positive sentiment here and after telling everyone the win vs Sheffield United was not worth getting crazy about as it relates to what performance level we can expect against non-shit teams (and getting told I was a moron then too), I just don't understand how people disregard opposition quality so much.

Of course our players our going to look more energetic and better on the ball today. We had 70% possession instead of 30% for a change.

So where do you suggest we get the confidence from to beat the 'non-shit' teams. ??

How do we ever improve if not for concerted effort as witnessed today.

Will we revert to type. ??...maybe.

But...

We have to build again from somewhere, so whether West Brom is that catalyst or not, a win and improved performance can only be seen as a positive.

Strikeb4ck · Feb 7, 2021

tooey said:
I'm 3 joints deep, I'm basically melted, let alone chillaxed. I'm just saying that any body who thought Sanchez was "lucky" is a complete moron, that's all.

Tbh Sanchez is clueless where his man is half the time. Rewatch the chance in the first half where Hugo had to make the huge save.

handsomecake · Feb 7, 2021

TropicalYid said:
Great with 3 points today. And we dominated, as we should.
But there is still a long way to go.
Im not shure our shaky defense would cope with facing a better team.
And the Kane/son dependence is worrying .

pretty much my feeling.

good 3 points. didn't see anything to get me overly confident going forward.

same old story really. Kane and Son.

Strikeb4ck · Feb 7, 2021

cider spurs said:
So where do you suggest we get the confidence from to beat the 'non-shit' teams. ??

How do we ever improve if not for concerted effort as witnessed today.

Will we revert to type. ??...maybe.

But...

We have to build again from somewhere, so whether West Brom is that catalyst or not, a win and improved performance can only be seen as a positive.

My point is we know where our level is.

It doesn't change with this result vs WBA with 70% possession and it doesn't change with whatever result vs City with 30% possession.

We will walk into the match vs Everton back to playing like we did vs Brighton and whatever other teams where we've looked second-best. Hoping Kane and Son can do something and we can sit on the first goal, and likely hopeless if we concede the first goal.

If people look at this result (which wasn't even a particularly good attacking display compared to others we've had this year despite being vs the worst team in the league) thinking something has changed vs Brighton (OK, apart from Kane being in) - it hasn't. It's the same time that struggled in Bulgaria or wherever the hell we were at the start of the season.

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