Zokora

dannythomas · Jul 17, 2008

If we have aspirations to be a top 4 team then the questions we should ask are if Zokora is good enough for that and whether any of the top 4 would be in the remotest interested in him. A resounding NO is the answer on both counts. Sorry Didier you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

guy · Jul 17, 2008

i say he should be kept in the squad this season. if he improves again keep him, if not he will become either a squad player only or sell him to boro/wetspam

the poor bugger tries hard and loves spurs but just has little footballing ability

do do do do didier zokora. id love to see him score this season!

Bill_Oddie · Jul 17, 2008

dannythomas said:
If we have aspirations to be a top 4 team then the questions we should ask are if Zokora is good enough for that and whether any of the top 4 would be in the remotest interested in him. A resounding NO is the answer on both counts. Sorry Didier you are the weakest link. Goodbye.

Well, Jol, Commoli and Ramos rate him. And recently he was in Sammy Eto'o's world football squad. Those people are going to be infinitely better placed to assess his value than you or I.

He's only really had one bad patch for us (October-January in his first season). Otherwise, he's been pretty good. You could say the same of Adebayor, Essien and Drogba but Zoko joined the prem a year later than them.

I've said it before and I don't know why I think it, but I reckon he could be our player of the season this campaign.

ricardomcd · Jul 17, 2008

southgatespur40 said:
zokora is not a good dm. this is why:

his first touch is awful.

when he does win the ball back (rarely) he cannot distribute it and just ends up running with his head down and hopes to get fouled.

he cant pass

he just concedes fouls around the penalty area then leading to goals being conceded from free kicks. he does this almost all the time examples chelsea cc final, newcastle at home.

he gets lost in the attack all the time

he has no discipline

provides no cover for the back 4 hence all the long shots

has not taken the midfield by the neck imo how a dm should

these are just a few reasons why imo he is not a good dm.

Ditto

Kyras · Jul 17, 2008

Not to forget his performance in the Carling Cup Final, he was immense, I have always been uncertain over Zokora but sometimes he puts in a real impressive performance which makes me believe he has talent, he's just inconsistent.

Ditto Jenas actually, and Hudd.

Stoof · Jul 17, 2008

He's a great attacking centre back.

But to be honest, we need those like I need a penis reduction.

AnotherSpursFan · Jul 17, 2008

I still doubt Zokora's ability.
His pace and fitness is supreme and has all the physical attribute to be a tremendous player. But when he plays, he' just shockingly AWFUL.
Hope he improves to become a better player

AlanUB · Jul 17, 2008

I completely agree with Bill Odie. I have a gut feeling that Zoko is going to shine in the upcoming campaign. And I remember wanker wanted him for his arse squad 2 years back but he opt for us.

markie · Jul 17, 2008

Bill_Oddie said:
He's only really had one bad patch for us (October-January in his first season). Otherwise, he's been pretty good.

And then he was away from the team after that at African Nations for a month...

He is awful. He always has been and always will be... Lets just get rid!

:bang:

fozzi44 · Jul 17, 2008

i honestly dont know how people think he is "awful" - never seen the word written as many times in one post.

I think he is quite good to be fair, and with 2 seasons of premiership experience under his belt i am looking forward to seeing what he can produce this term.

Clearly Ramos, Commolli, Jol et al all rate him and lets face it they know a damn sight more than all of us in here. The midfield position in the PL is probably the hardest to adapt too, especially the defensive side, and i think much of Zokoras early problems stems for a combination of him finding his feet and us learning where best to utilise him.

But he looked a much much better player second half of last season, he clearly has talent, and as someone else said its not just any fool that makes eto'os team of the year.

I like others think he may be the surprise package this season - i really hope he is, then lots of you can indulge in a big fat chunk of humble pie. :whistle:

Either way he seems to love the club and wear his heart on his sleeve, i like that about him.

mil1lion · Jul 17, 2008

The problem with Zokora is, he isn't a defensive midfielder and he isn't an attacking central midfielder. He's more of a tackle the player on the ball type player. He plays his best when he plays alongside a defensive midfielder. I always though his best run of form was when Jenas was injured the season before last, and Tainio played alongside him. He was able to just get stuck in and rely on Tainio (the smarter player) to hold his position and cover for him when he loses the ball.

If Ramos goes 4-2-3-1 this season, then i see Zokora in the middle alongside someone like Albelda. Then relying on the fullbacks getting forward and the 3 midfielders breaking forward to support the lone front man. He's also very useful when we get our centre backs forward for set pieces. He sort of becomes our sweeper if we get caught on the counter attack. His pace and energy alongside the clever destroyer Albelda would be great in my opinion.

RussellYid · Jul 17, 2008

The most boring thing about Spurs? Anti-Zokora fans.

northampton_yid · Jul 17, 2008

Zakora would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me. Put a decent midfielder along side him and you'll see him shine. Unfortunatly he was covering for Jenas most of last season while he went missing.

Coyboy · Jul 17, 2008

RussellYid said:
The most boring thing about Spurs? Anti-Zokora fans.

Well yes but what is boring is not a reasoned arguement saying Zokora is not good enough because of x,y and z (of which there hasn't been one here) but those who just write Zokora and then some mild or not so mild insult. It is the same for Jenas, Dawson and others.

Million summed it up pretty nicely as did those who said that the likes of Comolli, Jol and Ramos rate him highly as does the national coach of Ivory Coast- probably player for player the best nation in Africa.

The problem that many people have with him, and it is the same for other players, is that they want him to be many things. They want a midfielder who tackles, who breaks up play, who passes accurately long and short, who starts attacks, who tracks players and preferably who scores. These players hardly exist.

What Zokora is good at doing is breaking up play and tackling and in turning attack to defense quickly and effectively. He does the first two excellently, the last one he often struggles at because he is often playing with Jenas and Malbranque who are not organically creative. If he plays next year more with Huddlestone, Modric and in certain games as Million said with Tainio, he will do much better.

Regardless of that, he has been our most consistent player bar Keane and Berbatov since the back end of season 06/07.

rez9000 · Jul 17, 2008

I was in the 'Zokora is awful' camp I have to say. But having seen a number of SC people whose opinions I respect (and Stoof :wink

I think I'll put my opinion on hold until we see how he does this season.

But I do have to agree with one or two negative points. There have been times when he's made mistakes that could have cost us dear. The ones that spring to mind are against Man City and then Chelsea both in the Carling Cup. To be fair, we did go on to lift the Cup, so obviously nothing came of his mistakes, but still...

I guess we shall have to see.

Coyboy · Jul 17, 2008

rez9000 said:
I was in the 'Zokora is awful' camp I have to say. But having seen a number of SC people whose opinions I respect (and Stoof :wink I think I'll put my opinion on hold until we see how he does this season.

But I do have to agree with one or two negative points. There have been times when he's made mistakes that could have cost us dear. The ones that spring to mind are against Man City and then Chelsea both in the Carling Cup. To be fair, we did go on to lift the Cup, so obviously nothing came of his mistakes, but still...

I guess we shall have to see.

In the City game, do you mean his sending off which was ridiculous in my opinion. And in the final do you mean the foul leading to Drogba's goal or the missed chance. The former was stupid but the latter was jusr rather unlucky, and he did play very well throughout the 120 minutes.

Kendall · Jul 17, 2008

I think Zokora can shine as a designated DM, up to now he's been expected to get forward and/or play in defence. Now creativity should be more so because of players like GDS & Modric hopefully he can get on with what he does best & what he was reknowned for when he came - being a midfield general

Stoof · Jul 17, 2008

Kendall said:
I think Zokora can shine as a designated DM, up to now he's been expected to get forward and/or play in defence. Now creativity should be more so because of players like GDS & Modric hopefully he can get on with what he does best & what he was reknowned for when he came - being a midfield general

He was known for that? From where I was sitting, he was an average St. Etienne water-carrier that would struggle to adapt to the Premiership. Oh yeah, he hit the bar, like, once in a WC game too. Come on, "reknowned for being a midfield general" is a bit strong, and quite frankly he hasn't shown anything like that.

It's worrying that the majority of his better games (aside from a few) were played in a quasi-attacking centre back role which was quite frankly strange and scary.

He's playing as one third of a midfield two, if you catch my meaning. He's not got an adequate skill-set that covers being half of a midfield two. I will continue to say this until someone says "hey Stoof, that's brilliant, you should be like a genius or summink". Until that day, though, I shall continue my "less-than-happy, just-about-content with Zokora" mindset.

Paxtonite · Jul 17, 2008

southgatespur40 said:
zokora is not a good dm. this is why:

his first touch is awful.

when he does win the ball back (rarely) he cannot distribute it and just ends up running with his head down and hopes to get fouled.

he cant pass

he just concedes fouls around the penalty area then leading to goals being conceded from free kicks. he does this almost all the time examples chelsea cc final, newcastle at home.

he gets lost in the attack all the time

he has no discipline

provides no cover for the back 4 hence all the long shots

has not taken the midfield by the neck imo how a dm should

these are just a few reasons why imo he is not a good dm.

I'm sorry but i have to say that this is the biggest pile of uninformed and unintelligent shyte that i have ever read on these forums.

First touch could be better at times but it is not generally a problem.
Wins the ball back far more than he gets credit for, and often holds up play long enough for his team mates to regroup. Plays for the foul now and again but most players like him do.
Because he concedes free kicks on a few occasions he clearly does it all the time. Of course i get it...
Given that he rarely attacks i cant see how he gets lost in attack all the time. And if he does lose the ball in attack, as all midfielders sometimes do, then it is up to his fellow midfielders to be covering i would imagine.
When our defenders go awol, as they did on many occasions last season, it is his discipline that enabled him to get back and cover and retrieve the situation.
If the oppostion are shooting from a long way out it would mean that they cannot progress any further upfield and therefore the defenders and midfielders would be doingtheir job. Whether they can stop ALL shots getting through is another matter.
I think you will find that it is the attacking midfielders that generally "take the midfield by the neck" in most teams. The DM's just do the tidying up.

To my mind i would even consider playing him at centre back. Possibly a reason why we have yet to strengthen in this department at the club.

JonnySpurs · Jul 17, 2008

Ah man, "I hate Zokora" threads are SO fuckin lame....I could go into one and explain about what he brings to the table but I just simply can't be arsed....and the main reason that I can't be arsed is because if you haven't figured it out for yourself yet then chances are that it will just be a total waste of my time to even bother typing it out.

All I'm gonna say is that Spurs have never really played the right system, at least in the sense of who he is paired with in central midfield, in order to bring the best out of him. When he partners Yaya Toure (out and out DMF) he plays his best footy. Lets be fair, nobody else in the league charges up field with the ball with such speed like Zoko does! I think he's underrated, especially by clueless Spurs fans who think they know when they clearly don't!

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