Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18

jolsnogross · Dec 19, 2017

Our league record this season looks like this.
WLDWDWWWWLWLDLDWWL

For whatever reason, after we beat Liverpool with a rampaging 4-1 for four wins on the bounce, we inexplicably lost to West Ham in the league cup, and then lost to Man United (underlined). That couple of games not only broke our winning streak, it seemed to derail us. The Champions League campaign seems like chalk & cheese with the league.

Since then, I don't think we've gotten a performance that's anywhere like ourselves in 4th or 5th gear, even in the thrashing of Stoke. If ever there was a week for a re-invigoration of the mentality and approach, it's this one. We don't play one of the top sides again until Man United on Jan 31st. Until then, it's Burnley, Southampton twice, Swansea, West Ham, & Everton. Regardless of what everyone else is doing, we really have to try to maximize this run of games, and it's not like 2 or 3 of these sides are mugs or haven't come out of their own terrible form recently.

We need a smart management strategy to keep players fresh and we need to stop playing so safely in possession as though we're terrified of losing the ball and rolling it around in treacle. It's a great test of our credentials at Turf Moor this weekend and I hope we're back at it and looking upwards rather than behind us over this next 6-game run.

Styopa · Dec 19, 2017

Right now, we have an identical points total for away games played as in 2016/17 and 2015/16. 13 points from 9 away games. The reason we're worse off than last season is our home form, which has seen us take 5 points less than this stage last year. Dropped points against Swansea, Chelsea, Burnley, West Brom have cost us dearly. Had we been playing at White Hart Lane, I think there's a good chance we change at least one of those into a win and things would feel very different. It's often small margins.

I'm hoping now we push on stronger for the rest of the season, like we have done previously. And believe it or not, our home record right now of 18 points from 9 home matches is slightly better than the same stage in 2015/16 of 16 points from 9 home matches - and everyone remembers that as being a fantastic season.

All is not lost...

DEFchenkOE · Dec 19, 2017

Think we are just stale in attack. All the other teams around us all improved their midfield and attacking options, we are the only team that did not. And by doing nothing we have gone backwards. Llorente gets about as much game time as Janssen did so doesn't count as an improvement imo.

glacierSpurs · Dec 19, 2017

I think the defeat to spammers in the league cup knocked us heavier than expected when facing domestic teams..

shelfboy68 · Dec 19, 2017

glacierSpurs said:
I think the defeat to spammers in the league cup knocked us heavier than expected when facing domestic teams..

Well we was 2-0 up without playing great then decided not to turn up second half embarrassing

Hazardousman · Dec 19, 2017

Shadydan said:
Didn't you write the same things in your infamous thread last year?

No, not at all to be honest mate, in the Poch thread we had just been dumped out of a CL group that we should have came out of with reletive ease, the main reason we didn't was our tactics and how we were rigid in our approach to games, then we switched to 3 at the back and started having far more success.

I was however wrong about Wanyama in that thread, since he has been out we have looked flakey in the middle.

This time I am genuinely concerned and I don't believe it is on the shoulders of Poch, I feel like a few of the players are looking towards greener pastures and since the league is already out of the question many of them are only putting the required effort in for the CL.

I think Poch is trying to get a performance out of some of them and he is not getting anything back in return, I think at this point it's beyond a doubt that this is more than just bad form.

That doesn't mean we can't turn it around but I do think that if we are going to then Poch needs to drop some of the players who think they are safe and start leaning on the youth more, we have youngsters chomping at the bit to get in and I do think that sometimes Poch has his favourites.

Hazardousman · Dec 19, 2017

Colonel Dax said:
Agreed. Number of factors IMO...

1. Wembley
2. Injuries to key players (Wanyama/Toby).
3. Out of form players such as Eriksen and Dele.
4. Failure to spruce up midfield and attacking positions last summer
5. Walker sale / wages situation / restlessness
6. Lack of the intense press in our play and/or other teams working out how to combat the press.
7. Rival top 6 teams doing better than last season
8. Poch 3 year cycle with the current squad: players lacking motivation (solution: refresh of playing personnel needed next summer?)

Probably more factors but that's all I can think of currently.

I agree, I think it's a combination of all those factors, the ones in bold in particular.

Shadydan · Dec 19, 2017

Hazardousman said:
No, not at all to be honest mate, in the Poch thread we had just been dumped out of a CL group that we should have came out of with reletive ease, the main reason we didn't was our tactics and how we were rigid in our approach to games, then we switched to 3 at the back and started having far more success.

I was however wrong about Wanyama in that thread, since he has been out we have looked flakey in the middle.

This time I am genuinely concerned and I don't believe it is on the shoulders of Poch, I feel like a few of the players are looking towards greener pastures and since the league is already out of the question many of them are only putting the required effort in for the CL.

I think Poch is trying to get a performance out of some of them and he is not getting anything back in return, I think at this point it's beyond a doubt that this is more than just bad form.

That doesn't mean we can't turn it around but I do think that if we are going to then Poch needs to drop some of the players who think they are safe and start leaning on the youth more, we have youngsters chomping at the bit to get in and I do think that sometimes Poch has his favourites.

I think the one of the main reasons why we were going through the bad run of form last year is probably the same reason we're struggling this year, injures.

panoma · Dec 19, 2017

shelfboy68 said:
Well we was 2-0 up without playing great then decided not to turn up second half embarrassing

We conceded from 3 set pieces i believe. Same casual defending thagt allowed Gundogan of all people to score on another corner kick. We really need to adress this.

shelfboy68 · Dec 19, 2017

Everyone gets injuries maybe better squad depth would help a bit rather than what we have currently.

SpursDave88 · Dec 19, 2017

Shadydan said:
I think the one of the main reasons why we were going through the bad run of form last year is probably the same reason we're struggling this year, injures.

We don't really have any more injuries than our competitors though.

City - Without Mendy they have no left back, John Stones their best CB and Kompany are injured.

Utd - Have regularly been without Pogba, Zlatan their best CF from last year also injured/unfit.

Chelsea - Kante a lot of injuries along with Moses, Morata injured/unfit - Luis out of the squad.

Us - Wanyama and Toby injured - Rose unfit.

It's also worth noting we were without Toby and Kane at this stage last year, we also didn't have Davinson Sanchez.

I don't blame injuries really - injuries don't stop our team pressing and they don't prevent Dele from making 5 yard passes successfully.

Shadydan · Dec 19, 2017

SpursDave88 said:
We don't really have any more injuries than our competitors though.

City - Without Mendy they have no left back, John Stones their best CB and Company are injured.

Utd - Have regularly been without Pogba, Zlatan their best CF from last year also injured/unfit.

Chelsea - Kante a lot of injuries along with Moses, Morata injured/unfit - Luis out of the squad.

Us - Wanyama and Toby injured - Rose unfit.

It's also worth noting we were without Toby and Kane at this stage last year, we also didn't have Davinson Sanchez.

I don't blame injuries really - injuries don't stop our team pressing and they don't prevent Dele from making 5 yard passes successfully.

Those teams have finances therefore the squads to cope better.

shelfboy68 · Dec 19, 2017

SpursDave88 said:
We don't really have any more injuries than our competitors though.

City - Without Mendy they have no left back, John Stones their best CB and Company are injured.

Utd - Have regularly been without Pogba, Zlatan their best CF from last year also injured/unfit.

Chelsea - Kante a lot of injuries along with Moses, Morata injured/unfit - Luis out of the squad.

Us - Wanyama and Toby injured - Rose unfit.

It's also worth noting we were without Toby and Kane at this stage last year, we also didn't have Davinson Sanchez.

I don't blame injuries really - injuries don't stop our team pressing and they don't prevent Dele from making 5 yard passes successfully.

But they are starting off on a better position of strength mate our squad is not good enough players like nkoudou, llorente are not what we need, but we don't have much choice but yes the other bits you mentioned are correct.

archiewasking · Dec 20, 2017

At the moment top 6 and Europa League seem by no means certain.

Mr Pink · Dec 20, 2017

shelfmonkey said:
Apart from a couple of games, the whole season so far is a cause for concern!

At times there has been, but the fact remains we were in the top 4 before Saturday evening.

LexingtonSpurs · Dec 20, 2017

SpursDave88 said:
We don't really have any more injuries than our competitors though.

City - Without Mendy they have no left back, John Stones their best CB and Kompany are injured.

Utd - Have regularly been without Pogba, Zlatan their best CF from last year also injured/unfit.

Chelsea - Kante a lot of injuries along with Moses, Morata injured/unfit - Luis out of the squad.

Us - Wanyama and Toby injured - Rose unfit.

It's also worth noting we were without Toby and Kane at this stage last year, we also didn't have Davinson Sanchez.

I don't blame injuries really - injuries don't stop our team pressing and they don't prevent Dele from making 5 yard passes successfully.

How quickly they forget.

Spurs Injuries this season:

Rose
Lamela
Dembele
Winks
Wanyma
Toby

So 4 starters (Rose, Dembele, Wanyama, Toby) from last season have started a combined 23 out of 72 potential league matches. Wanyama and Toby is a double whammy because it moves Dier from DM - leaving us with no DMs.

That is a big hole. Add to that the matches Winks has missed this year, and the fact that a key attacking player - Lamela is just getting back into match-fitness, and its not hard to see why we struggled at times.

United: Zlatan replaced with £ukaku - and United have struggled without Pogba

City - they are winning is spite of their defense, not because of it - they put teams under pressure from the front, and keep a DM in the line-up to shield the back line. Lets see where they are if DeBruyne and Sane are out for a couple of months...

Chelsea - Kante? Seriously? He has played 15 league matches. Moses was replaced by Zappacosta, and Luis was dropped for form not injury.

coys200 · Dec 20, 2017

I think you just have to be realistic and say we aren’t gonna get CL every season, which really is pretty obvious. People on here seem to think we have some given right to it,when this is first time we’ve qualified in consecutive years. The facts are 6 into 4 don’t go ,every season will see 2 big clubs miss out. I can only see City and United getting stronger. Chelsea I’m not sure about but in reality going forward it will most likely be 4 teams fighting for 2 places.Long term I think Liverpool will fall back a bit. Revenue wise they aren’t in a great position with no real means to increase that apart from new owners. Same with Arsenal over next few years they will need a whole new squad,financially they can do it,but will they who knows.Long term I can see us in a bit of a tussle with Chelsea as the 3rd club, depending if Roman sticks around. Whatever people think about ENIC they have at least guaranteed we can be competitive for the next 100 years. Liverpool and Chelsea can’t really say same.

homer hotspur · Dec 20, 2017

coys200 said:
Whatever people think about ENIC they have at least guaranteed we can be competitive for the next 100 years. Liverpool and Chelsea can’t really say same.

Can we hold you to this?!!

Streetspur77 · Dec 20, 2017

homer hotspur said:
Can we hold you to this?!!

I think the point he's making is that ENIC could have just spent 1 billion on players and we'd do really well and everyone would be saying "yay ENIC King Daniel" etc but instead they've invested/borrowed 1 billion into infrastructure: stadium, training ground, facilities etc so that for years to come we should at least narrow the gap to the bigger teams in a sustainable way

TheChosenOne · Dec 20, 2017

LexingtonSpurs said:
How quickly they forget.

Spurs Injuries this season:

Rose
Lamela
Dembele
Winks
Wanyma
Toby

So 4 starters (Rose, Dembele, Wanyama, Toby) from last season have started a combined 23 out of 72 potential league matches. Wanyama and Toby is a double whammy because it moves Dier from DM - leaving us with no DMs.

That is a big hole. Add to that the matches Winks has missed this year, and the fact that a key attacking player - Lamela is just getting back into match-fitness, and its not hard to see why we struggled at times.

United: Zlatan replaced with £ukaku - and United have struggled without Pogba

City - they are winning is spite of their defense, not because of it - they put teams under pressure from the front, and keep a DM in the line-up to shield the back line. Lets see where they are if DeBruyne and Sane are out for a couple of months...

Chelsea - Kante? Seriously? He has played 15 league matches. Moses was replaced by Zappacosta, and Luis was dropped for form not injury.

Let's not forget Harry who had the hamstring / knee injuries - He arguably shouldn't have come back for the Arsenal game either - it showed he was merely a passenger that day

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