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Same old problems, same old story

lukespurs7

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
thfc1973 said:
Every season, at critical moments when it starts to count most we fail to deliver. Playing against teams with 10 men behind the ball we have an abundance of possession with no reward, no bite, no meaningful goal to reward it.

Guardiola once said when asked about this type of football that Barcelona played at the time (possession based football) he said he doesn't relate to that as he said its meaningless if you just pass and pass and pass with no result. And so he was saying his justification was that there was always an end result, a goal or goals that win you the game.

And that is exactly what we are like. We pass and pass and pass and we're useless with the ball. We cant penetrate teams and beat them when they defend. We have no game plan. No other tactics, apart from pass and pass and hope they make a mistake. That's the difference between a manager like Poch and Pep.

This is Poch. This is his achilles heal. He has no great game plan or in-game tactics or ability to open up teams, change it up to get us doing something different that will make a difference unless the game (conceding a goal) forces him or us to. Sitting there watching the game I cant help but feel why after half time the impetus, the game plan and tactics didn't change? It always takes a goal against us to get us to respond. This is typical!

I've said it before, but the fact remains. Poch isn't a great manager. He's a good manager but not a great manager. The level we are at, is the best we will get from him, regardless of the players we bring in (unless we had world class players who could win you games).

He's alright, he's a true Spurs loving manager, he sees the club philosophy and the ambition and he wants it so bad..But he'll never deliver us a major trophy. Fact. He's just not good enough. Whether he needs more time and experience with other clubs to gain more insight or appreciation I cant say, but for us, he will never drive us to trophy success.

He's just not astute enough, just not tactically aware enough and just not clever enough.

The reality is we're stuck with him for now. And until we move into the new stadium and maybe give him 1 year after that to get us settled we wont swap him for another manager I reckon. That's not my personal choice, as I'd like to amicably part with him at the end of this season and get in a manager I feel who could get us to the next level, beit a Conte or an Enrique or Simeone, but my feeling is we will have to get used to playing Europa league again for a few more years, see our best players leave and another wave of a new breed of young exciting players being brought in to replace them or come through the ranks to give us optimism.
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One of the biggest knee jerks in SC histroy lol.
We play a good style of football which is a balance between dominating possession and creating chances whilst restricting them to very few. If we did much more risky passes and moves we’d concede way more than we do.
Poch is a bloody good manager mate, he’s got us massively overachieving year over year.

Our real problem is we lack the attacking and midfield players to break teams down and we have no plan B up top to Kane,nothing to do with tactics at all.

Sissoko offers nothing, Dier passes safe as does Wanyama, Dembele is chronically carrying injuries, Winks is ok passing wise but also fairly safe, so while all good players we have little to no creativity in CM, put a modric etc in there and different story.

Then we have Eriksen,Son,Dele,Lamela, only Son can go past a man, Dele arrives to the box late but doesn’t take players on 1-v-1 nor does eriksen not does Lamela, they’re are pretty much all creative passers of the ball but none have much pace or trickery bar sonny to do something at pace or unpredictable, then up front we have Llorente to supplement Kane and Poch Just doesn’t play him or 2 up top very rarely, finally we had today Davies who offers 0 going forward and also has no pace so can’t stretch teams like rose does.

This is our issue.
Add a Modric type in CM and a Salah/Zaha to the attacking options and a better back up striker to Kane and we’d be 2nd.

Levy needs to sort it out not Poch.
 
Ghost Hardware

Ghost Hardware

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
18,326
63,025
Thing that I hate most about being a well run club with a bright future is the complete lack of good old, dick waving rant posts. It actually makes this place feel like home when one surfaces. And to think, all it took was, heaven forbid, a draw with West Ham..... Oh the horror.

Rant away good man, I am looking forward to re reading this in the morning with a full cup of coffee that I shall subsequently spill over my clean crisp shirt in a fit of hysterics.
 
allpaths

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,178
8,392
thfc1973 said:
Every season, at critical moments when it starts to count most we fail to deliver. Playing against teams with 10 men behind the ball we have an abundance of possession with no reward, no bite, no meaningful goal to reward it.

Guardiola once said when asked about this type of football that Barcelona played at the time (possession based football) he said he doesn't relate to that as he said its meaningless if you just pass and pass and pass with no result. And so he was saying his justification was that there was always an end result, a goal or goals that win you the game.

And that is exactly what we are like. We pass and pass and pass and we're useless with the ball. We cant penetrate teams and beat them when they defend. We have no game plan. No other tactics, apart from pass and pass and hope they make a mistake. That's the difference between a manager like Poch and Pep.

This is Poch. This is his achilles heal. He has no great game plan or in-game tactics or ability to open up teams, change it up to get us doing something different that will make a difference unless the game (conceding a goal) forces him or us to. Sitting there watching the game I cant help but feel why after half time the impetus, the game plan and tactics didn't change? It always takes a goal against us to get us to respond. This is typical!

I've said it before, but the fact remains. Poch isn't a great manager. He's a good manager but not a great manager. The level we are at, is the best we will get from him, regardless of the players we bring in (unless we had world class players who could win you games).

He's alright, he's a true Spurs loving manager, he sees the club philosophy and the ambition and he wants it so bad..But he'll never deliver us a major trophy. Fact. He's just not good enough. Whether he needs more time and experience with other clubs to gain more insight or appreciation I cant say, but for us, he will never drive us to trophy success.

He's just not astute enough, just not tactically aware enough and just not clever enough.

The reality is we're stuck with him for now. And until we move into the new stadium and maybe give him 1 year after that to get us settled we wont swap him for another manager I reckon. That's not my personal choice, as I'd like to amicably part with him at the end of this season and get in a manager I feel who could get us to the next level, beit a Conte or an Enrique or Simeone, but my feeling is we will have to get used to playing Europa league again for a few more years, see our best players leave and another wave of a new breed of young exciting players being brought in to replace them or come through the ranks to give us optimism.
Click to expand...

We are all frustrated mate, but this critisiscm is off the mark. The system clearly isnt the problem as we've some remarkable football throughout Poch's tenure. Poch has his flaws, his personal use is perplexing at times, his in game management i.e. making subs is poor. But I fully back Poch to learn from his mistakes, his a smart man with high standards and it should take a lot more than just a 5th place finish to overlook all the good work Poch has made.
 
dricha1

dricha1

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2005
1,312
2,584
I’m not Poch Out in any way, he’s taken us up to a level that any fan under the age of 35 just wont remember, consistently challenging at the top of the table like we were in the early 80’s.

But tonight he disappointed me and I fear it’s a trait he’ll find hard to snap out of. Substitutions. Or rather the lack of or delay in making them. I mentioned this in the match thread that in his book he refers to being concerned with upsetting Out of form players, that if they are not playing well what substituting them will do their confidence. He needs to, in the words of his book, be brave.

In tonight’s game the Wanyama/Lamela change was the right call but it was 20minutes too late. Poch needs to be proactive with his subs if he wants to achieve and move us to the level of winning trophies.
 
P

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,417
7,284
brownhead said:
It’s not all Poch. His faults are he doesn’t have a Plan B for this type of game and leaves his subs too late.
What we need and we need Levy for this, is a world class player with either the pace to break through and unlock these teams or a world class player with the ability to dribble through and past 2 or 3 players into the box. Someone with both obviously ideal. But these match winners cost top dollar and want top wages. Levy doesn’t do that. So we need him to. It really is that simple
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Pace won't help against teams that sit back, it's the latter you need. The dribbler who can control the ball at a slower pace to weave in and out of opponents. Zaha wouldn't have helped today other than on the counter; Isco would be the one for this.
 
Mr Pink

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,135
100,262
Poch had a mare tonight, but overall he's been outstanding for us.

Love these posts though, just shows the emotions running through the unstable ones
 
Spurs' Pipe Dreams

Spurs' Pipe Dreams

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2011
20,008
32,728
Just finished 3rd and then 2nd, and are 5 points off from last season but through to the last 16 of the CL. Ah well should sack our manager then :eek::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::D
 
MattyP

MattyP

Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes
May 14, 2007
14,041
2,980
thfc1973 said:
He's alright, he's a true Spurs loving manager, he sees the club philosophy and the ambition and he wants it so bad..But he'll never deliver us a major trophy. Fact.
Click to expand...

No offence, but anyone who uses the word “fact” to support an opinion, especially one predicting the future, loses me right away.

Unless you are Mystic Meg. Then I’ll believe you without question. Fact.
 
davros

davros

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2005
2,887
586
Think back to our last couple of major trophies. We have a better team now than back then, we have a better manager, we play better football, we win more matches, we score more goals and concede fewer goals, and players seem to play for the manager and for each other way more than they did.

If we list our managers of the last 20 years from best to worst, I doubt Graham and Ramos would rank very highly at all, and if we could quantify the progress we made under all the managers in the list, I think we'd see that Graham and Ramos contributed relatively little despite the trophies.

The teams that play the best football (summarized as: score most/concede least), and the best managers (build and develop a team/squad with work ethic, talent, ambition, clear dynamic) are most likely to win trophies. I suggest we are well placed in each of these categories and have a better chance of winning major trophies than in seasons past.
 
Donki

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
14,455
18,975
thfc1973 said:
Every season, at critical moments when it starts to count most we fail to deliver. Playing against teams with 10 men behind the ball we have an abundance of possession with no reward, no bite, no meaningful goal to reward it.

Guardiola once said when asked about this type of football that Barcelona played at the time (possession based football) he said he doesn't relate to that as he said its meaningless if you just pass and pass and pass with no result. And so he was saying his justification was that there was always an end result, a goal or goals that win you the game.

And that is exactly what we are like. We pass and pass and pass and we're useless with the ball. We cant penetrate teams and beat them when they defend. We have no game plan. No other tactics, apart from pass and pass and hope they make a mistake. That's the difference between a manager like Poch and Pep.

This is Poch. This is his achilles heal. He has no great game plan or in-game tactics or ability to open up teams, change it up to get us doing something different that will make a difference unless the game (conceding a goal) forces him or us to. Sitting there watching the game I cant help but feel why after half time the impetus, the game plan and tactics didn't change? It always takes a goal against us to get us to respond. This is typical!

I've said it before, but the fact remains. Poch isn't a great manager. He's a good manager but not a great manager. The level we are at, is the best we will get from him, regardless of the players we bring in (unless we had world class players who could win you games).

He's alright, he's a true Spurs loving manager, he sees the club philosophy and the ambition and he wants it so bad..But he'll never deliver us a major trophy. Fact. He's just not good enough. Whether he needs more time and experience with other clubs to gain more insight or appreciation I cant say, but for us, he will never drive us to trophy success.

He's just not astute enough, just not tactically aware enough and just not clever enough.

The reality is we're stuck with him for now. And until we move into the new stadium and maybe give him 1 year after that to get us settled we wont swap him for another manager I reckon. That's not my personal choice, as I'd like to amicably part with him at the end of this season and get in a manager I feel who could get us to the next level, beit a Conte or an Enrique or Simeone, but my feeling is we will have to get used to playing Europa league again for a few more years, see our best players leave and another wave of a new breed of young exciting players being brought in to replace them or come through the ranks to give us optimism.
Click to expand...

Yup there is a difference between Pep and Poch, its about £200M in transfers.
 
Last edited:
olliec

olliec

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2012
3,595
11,800
This is the most ridiculous post I've read. You do realize City struggles to beat the spammers and only won by late goals because they did the same thing. How do you tactically play around 10 men standing still and not giving space in and around the box? Without a creative midfield like a Modric to pick a pocket all we can do is keep going and moving the ball about until something opens up. It's dire to watch the players try and struggle but to say it's Poch fault is ridiculous!
 
V

vicbob

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2008
2,403
5,106
Well that’s cheered me up after last night, thanks.



Oh wait, it’s a serious post?
 
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