£48m has bought good depth, but what about the balance and cohesion?

[Coyboy]

Repeating "We signed him..." every sentence doesn't make your point stronger lol, but in a more serious mode, I acknowledge the short-term aspect of why Redknapp appointed cover for Corluka, but I think Gunter and DZ already adequately fulfilled that need. I've seen no evidence that Redknapp sees Corluka's best position in the centre and have seen him play only once there when we had no choice. Your other reasons don't take into account the team as it is or the cost of buying a player like Chimbo.

Again I could understand Keane or Defoe, but £30m on both is ridiculous, not because they aren't both individually worth around about their price-tags but because they can't play together and the money would imo have been better saved and spent in areas where we need players and on individuals who'll add long-term quality/value to the squad. I'm not sure I agree that Keane's a leader or an inspiration, in fact I'd rather say he's the opposite on the pitch, but maybe he's those things off it?

But i understand where you're coming from i just think you're listing reasons which look reasonable on paper but which, when examined individually, don't stack and don't connect. A bit like our team

I know it doesn't but I think anaphora is a good rhetorical tool. I don't think it was short term getting cover for Corluka whatsoever. I think it was quite forward looking because we don't know what's up with Hutton's fitness whenever he returns and we certainly don't know what's up with King's fitness so long term I think, as I said, that Corluka could be a good King replacement. Rednapp may not think so and may have only played them out of obligation but that may have been because Woodgate (whose long term fitness is uncertain also) has been ok fitness-wise.

I don't think we can rely on Gunter or Zokora filling in for the rest of the season were Corluka to get injured or have to play centre back. Zokora is good there but needed in the centre of the pitch and Gunter is too unproven to rely on in our circumstances. It is kind of like saying we don't need another striker because we have Campbell. He has played only in the Championship and a handful of games in the the top flight.

I don't understand what you mean regarding my other reasons. Of course they take into account the team. Chimbonda can help out the team by playing across the defence. Chimbonda can help out the team by getting forward down the right wing as he did Sunday. Chimbonda can help out the team because he is experienced. This notion of him as a disruption or inimical to team spirit is perhaps of result of the CC final or just hot air.

I don't know why you are posting such figures in that way. We got Keane back for less than we sold him for and all in paid six for Defoe when you take into account the written off debt which at the rate of Pompey's repayments would be paid back by the time we were in the Championship. We didn't pay thirty million cash for Keane or Defoe. As it is the Keane purchase is looking even wiser with Defoe out. And no that is not the stand alone reason he was signed. Again see my sig and do some digging circa 2006 to refute the Keane/Defoe one or tother argument.

A lot of people look at Keane on the pitch see him shrug his shoulders and wag his finger and seem to think 'twat' or as you say, not conducive to leading or inspiring. But managers and players who know him and see him outside of 90 mins every two weeks say different. I will take their word and the fact that a bit of perfectionism and rollicking might be what we need. Keane is no Keane. He is not a great, natural almost now antiquated leader but he does lead well and I don't think Ramos, Jol, Rednapp and countless Ireland managers would have made him captain were this not the case.

I think my reasons do connect:

We need depth/experience and greater attacking from FBs- Chimbonda

We need more goals- Defoe, Keane

We need passion, leadership- Keane.

We need to build a team that competes, scores goals, wins games and has flair. Each of these players have these qualities and were part of a successful team. It is a bit odd that we have resigned three players but that is just a freak of football and a bonus (depending on how you see it) that they were all available and wanted to come back.

 

[Coyboy]

I think what a lot of people forget is that signing players, let alone five, in one month is fucking hard and Levy and Rednapp should be commended. I don't know about the individual contractual and administrative details but I am sure it is not like Football Manager. Further, it is true we need a left midfielder and hold up striker. Rednapp tried for Downing and Jones whom, for me, would have been fine. But he was knocked back. What's he going to do, go elsewhere and sign another as if he was doing the groceries? Left wingers are in short supply and strikers like Jones and Heskey don't grow on trees. He did really well with what was available. I can imagine it was a complete nightmare trying to juggle so many deals and that Quaresema (sp) fell through and that Boro and Sunderland were obstinate is not the fault of either Levy or Rednapp. (or Alexander who is often a publicly peripheral figure but very important in signing I would imagine).

 

[SpurSince57]

Plain and simple it most certainly isn't. The Torygraph's Paul Kelso elaborates on what I posted earlier in the thread:

More by luck than judgment, Tottenham have been the primary beneficiaries of "debt forgiveness", with their net spending closer to £20 million than the total reported figure of £49 million lavished on Jermain Defoe, Robbie Keane, Wilson Palacios, Pascal Chimbonda and Carlo Cudicini.
Of these deals only two, Palacios and Chimbonda, required the club commit to the entire fee in cash, albeit in instalments. Cudicini was a free, and in re-signing Keane and Defoe they were able to take advantage of the straitened circumstances of both Liverpool and Portsmouth to lure the players back.
In Keane's case Liverpool still owed Tottenham around £11 million of the initial £19 million fee they agreed last summer, meaning his £12 million return to White Hart Lane was completed with less than £1 million in cash travelling in the other direction.
Liverpool may have taken a £7 million hit (plus wages) for Keane's six-month stay, but in the wider context of a club already under pressure to service the American owners' £350 million acquisition loan, erasing an £11 million debt repayable this summer may prove helpful.
Defoe's return did have a net cost to Tottenham, who notionally paid £15.75 million for a player they sold for £9.2 million last January, but with Portsmouth still owing outstanding fees for Defoe, Younes Kaboul and Pedro Mendes, only £6 million in cash changes hands.

We at worst broke even on Chimbonda, and the above takes no account of the profit we made on Defoe and Keane. In terms of what we've actually paid, we've done some very smart business.

 

[bubble07]

I GET SO FRUSTRATED - WHY DOESN'T REDKNAPP PLAY BALE LEFT MID OVER BENTLEY

1. Provides more natural balance then Bentley
2. Additional Height in defending set pieces
3. Quicker then Bentley
4. Equally as good if not better at set pieces then Bentley
5. Works harder then Bentley
6. Helps left back more then Bentley

This record of not winning a prem game is just his bad luck. It has nothing to do with his ability when he plas left midfield. I admit his not good enough YET to play left back but he should be starting on a regular basis at left midfield

 

[SpurSince57]

What relevance does that have to the thread? :shrug:

 

[bubble07]

What relevance does that have to the thread? :shrug:

What I meant was that the balance and cohesion would be far better if Redknapp played Bale at left mid instead of playing Bentley there. We didn't need to sign a left midfielder in january nor do we need to spend 15m on Downing in the summer. Playing Bentley or Lennon left mid simply makes the side unbalanced - I thought this thread was discussing the balance and cohesion of the team?

I fully expect Hutton to regain full fittness and regain his position as our right back as IMO he is our best RB we have had in years. All we need in the summer is a top class left back and a top class target man to complement Pavlyuchenko, Defoe, Keane and Bent if the latter is still with us

Then we will have a fully balanced squad with adequate depth for a top 6 finish

GK Gomes Cudicini
RB Hutton Chimbonda Gunter
CB King Woodgate Dawson Corluka
LB_______ Assou-Ekotto
RM Lennon Bentley
DM Palacios Zokora Huddlestone
CM Modric Jenas
LM Bale O'Hara Giovani
CF Pavlyuchenko __________ Bent
CF Defoe Keane

 

[lukespurs7]

incredibly strong squad now just need a LM.

 

[sloth]

Plain and simple it most certainly isn't. The Torygraph's Paul Kelso elaborates on what I posted earlier in the thread:



We at worst broke even on Chimbonda, and the above takes no account of the profit we made on Defoe and Keane. In terms of what we've actually paid, we've done some very smart business.

Coyboy, I'll reply tomorrow when I get the chance because it will take a bit longer.

SS, it is plain and simple, we just paid £48m and £30m on Defoe and Keane, had we not spent it on them we'd have had it to spend on other players. The ebb and flow is irrelevant, that is how much we paid and it is the same money we'd have had to spend on anyone, the question is whether it was well spent. To pretend we spent less is simply wrong, it is what we spent and that is plain and simple.

 

[SpurSince57]

It is plain and simple. Around £17m was money we hadn't received, and in Pompey's case, might never have received. Therefore, we didn't have it to spend on anyone else. You're making it sound as if it was £48m straight out of the bank.

And, yes, I believe it will be money well spent. Redknapp knows what he's doing, which is a great deal more than can be said of his late and deeply-unlamented predecessor.

 

[mackay59]

They try to buy what they need but have to get what they can.

 

[bill]

It is plain and simple. Around £17m was money we hadn't received, and in Pompey's case, might never have received. Therefore, we didn't have it to spend on anyone else. You're making it sound as if it was £48m straight out of the bank.

And, yes, I believe it will be money well spent. Redknapp knows what he's doing, which is a great deal more than can be said of his late and deeply-unlamented predecessor.

That is a good point. Maybe Harry knows a bit more about Pompey's finances than he lets on.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

re: redknapp's signings:

chimbonda... not a stop gap by any means. a very fit 29 year old who is good going forward, good defensively if his head is screwed on, and can go on for another 3 years minimum. He is effectively King's replacement int he first team, because Corluka can now be a full time CB. Those who piss and moan about "what about Corluka" regarding the chimbonda return clearly do not get the obvious bigger picture. then you say "what about hutton?". Well, Hutton had a great first month, then lost form for the remainder of last season. Since then, he has had 2 big injuries in a row, and the few games he has played under redknapp have been very poor, most notably away to Arsenal in thr 4 4. He has a big reputation so is still a saleable asset. I would not be shocked to see him offloaded in the summer with Gunter made our number 2 right back. Or, at least, Hutton demoted to competition status at RB rather than first choice status, with Gunter going out on loan.

Next, I see people wondering about Keane and Defoe and moaning that they cannot play together. In the past they have failed together. They have also succeeded together. They are two good players with different styles. At the end of the day, if the midfield are on song and create space, a Keane Defoe partnership has every reason to work, just as it did towards the end of 0506 and 0304 when we first signed Defoe. Yes, we have every reason to believe that they won't work, but they are both about 3 years older and more developed as footballers than the last time they were tried together. Keane learnt a lot from Berbatov about hold up play and passing through, while Defoe is someone who knows what runs to make and when.

Lastly, there is all this crying about a lack of balance. Boo hoo. No left winger. Waaaa. Santa misread my list.

We have two wingers, both right admittedly, in Lennon and Bentley. The former is very good, while the latter is meant to be. Most teams these days play with only 1 genuine wideman, and a lot play with none. Until Walcott, Arsenal have played for years without any real width. Llundberg and Pires were both number 10's playing on the flanks. Liverpool are challenging for the title without any width, and until the quaresma signing, the only width Chelsea had was a rather hopeless Malouda.

I like Width, and we have a fair bit already. A bit more would be nice, but we can live without it.

 

[Black]

Another left footed player who can play on the wing, don't like see Chimbo or Corluka on the left at all

 

[Coyboy]

Coyboy, I'll reply tomorrow when I get the chance because it will take a bit longer.

I look forward to it Mr. Sloth.

 

[SpurSince57]

Another left footed player who can play on the wing, don't like see Chimbo or Corluka on the left at all

The only person who saw Chimbo on the left was Ramos. Jol tried it once, in the home leg against Sevilla, because Lee was injured and he had very little choice. Once was enough.

I agree with BBLG about Hutton. He looked no real improvement on Chimbonda at all last season apart from his first few games. With his history of injuries, at Rangers as well as Spurs, there have to be question marks over his long-term prospects.

 

[DogsOfWar]

I don't really get this. We signed Chimbo as stopgap for Hutton, but what about Corluka? Defoe and Palacious I can understand, but what about Keane? And you say we didn't panic buy? You say we have "Bent, Keane, Defoe and Pav it's not a priority." But what are the combinations? what happens if Pav gets injured? Why did we want a big target man in the first place? And finally we spent £48m and £30m of that on two players who can't play together and long-term we have reinforced areas in which we are strong and not areas where we're weak.

I think, from his dealings, that Harry has a much different opinion on what areas we are weak in though.

He seems just as interested in dealing with the personality or psychological make up of the side than just with positions.
He's changed our defense from: Alnwick, Corluka, Woody, Dawson and BAE to Cudicini, Chimbo, Corluka, Woody and BAE which is a huge step forward in terms of balance, quality and experience with Gomes, Hutton and King injured. Alnwick, Gunter and Dawson should be back up to the back up, not second choices.
He 'appears' to have bought in the strong CM we've been looking for so the rest can actually fight for their places next to Wilson.
He, at least, tried to bring in an LM with Downing and Quaresma but Boro didn't need to sell and Chelsea jumped ahead of us, with the amount of time they had to deal that's the way it goes.
Ditto for Jones in the target man role.

Which just leaves the Bent, Keane, Defoe and Pav combination. Everton appear to cope very well with no strikers so I don't see why a decent coach shouldn't be able to work out a system with four talented strikers who all offer something different to enable them to play in different combinations.

So although your argument is that we haven't bought players in two positions we were crying out for LM and target man, I would argue that the more important positions were those where we had to play youngsters such as Alnwick, Gunter and Campbell.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think, to be fair to Redknapp he has strengthened all four vital areas of the pitch positively.

Two pretty good quality strikers that have always scored goals and both look capable of playing with Pavlyuchenko and a hold-up guy when one can be signed.

An energetic ball winning grafter for the midfield to compliment people like Modric, Jenas, Lennon. GDS & Bentley

A dfender who can play across the back four who will allow Corluka toplay CB as well if needed.

A goalkeeper of the highest quality will provide real competition and back up.


As I've said previously I have slight issues with both Defoe (needs the right partner) and Keane (talented bottler) and would have rather we signed either one of them and a hold up guy. But there weren't many realistic options for the latter and accept that we may have to wait. And whatever I think of Keane and Defoe they are IMO, much better options than Bent & Campbell and came with the added bonus of not having to settle at a new club.

And as far as deadwood clearance goes, I don't think we were in a position to worry about that too much (and our squad actually wasn't that big this year) but some clearout has already occured with the likes of Boeteng and Ghaly off.

 

[Kendall]

I think trying to suggest that it matters that we scrubbed of debt rather than bought straight out of the bank is a bit silly.

When a business draws up it's budget it takes into account monies coming in and out, so therefore £48m off the books is still £48m off the books wether it's written off debt or outright spends.

 

[SpurSince57]

I agree with all of that except the Dawson bit. On balance, he's probably edged Woody so far this season, and certainly since Aitch has taken over.

Another, admittedly unlikely, possibility is that Corluka is now freed up to play DM (which is, I believe, his preferred position) alongside Palacios and Modric in a 4-5-1. As I say, unlikely, but certainly a viable option, and in theory a very strong one.

 

[SpurSince57]

I think trying to suggest that it matters that we scrubbed of debt rather than bought straight out of the bank is a bit silly.

When a business draws up it's budget it takes into account monies coming in and out, so therefore £48m off the books is still £48m off the books wether it's written off debt or outright spends.

But that money was not available to buy players other than Defoe and Keane.

I'm sure Levy would explain it all infinitely better than I can if he could be bothered.