3-4-3/3-4-1-2 or 3-1-4-2 - Basically 3 at the back.

[Shadydan]

Anyone think we could benefit by utilising a different formation at times? Not saying we should ditch the 4-2-3-1 all together but I think it's something we should explore because it seems like managers are starting to catch on and utilise it.

Man City have tried it a few times this season although they've mainly been crap, we've seen it work against us where Maicon and Kolarov pushed up against Bale and Lennon/Naughton which meant it created space on the wings and left their danger players in the middle virtually free to cause havoc.

AVB changed to 3 at the back against Arsenal and we looked the better team much for much of the 2nd half even though we had 10 men. It was sort of a 3-4-1-1, with Dawson, Gallas and Verts as the back 3, Bale and Lennon as wing backs with Sandro and Carroll in the middle with Dempsey playing behind Defoe, although we lost the 2nd hald we looked the better team and looked comfortable for long periods.

Saw Juve it against Chelsea with Asamoah and Lichsteiner as their wing backs who had a ridiculous amount of space to get up the pitch, although they played with Pirlo as a regista as opposed to a man in the hole behind the front two which I think probably would work better, at no point in the match did they look tactically exposed compared to Chelsea and created a hat-ful of chances which were wasted due to poor finishing.

Even Harry used it last season against Stoke where we dominated the 2nd half, came back into the game and should have won.

Who knows maybe AVB is working on something but it's worth looking into, anyone agree?

 

[tobi]

I like it but we don't have a competent player for the right wing back position.

 

[jondesouza]

I think it would be a useful tool in the armoury. You can imagine this providing a nice blend of defensive solidity and attacking threat:

Lloris​

​

Kaboul Caulker Vertonghen​

​

Lennon Dembele Sandro Carroll Bale​

​

Adebayor​

​

Defoe​

​

It would also enable Bale and Lennon to attack from deeper which would benefit us.​

 

[mpickard2087]

IMO the Arsenal game doesn't really tell us a lot. The game was over by the time we switched to it.

Personnel wise, the three centre backs I would have concerns about. I'm not sure if you are suggesting the exact same CB's but none of them have the pace really if they are dragged out to wide areas and Dawson didnt really understand the role he was playing, as the 'middleman' you are meant to be the cover, but he naturally wants to charge out, contest and be a 'stopper'. Maybe a three of Kaboul-Vertonghen-Caulker would work but Gallas and Dawson in the formation would be a big no-no for me.

As for the wingbacks, Walker would cover the ground but is stuck in some sort of footballing hell right now, Lennon and Bale I'm not sure work hard enough to track back, I think the centre backs would get really exposed especially down our left flank.

 

[14/04/91]

I wouldn't be averse to it at all. It'd keep Bale & Lennon wide which I still don't think we do enough.
I would be more concerned about our defensive vulnerability on the left rather than the right atm, Bale is leaving his left back exposed too often imo.
The critical thing with 3 at the back is the DM (Sandro) dropping in to make a 4 if needed. He's certainly good enough for that but it's whether we'd get overrun in midfield.
Certainly worth working on. I agree about Juve, they play it very well.

 

[playboypaul]

Something like this is what fits us best at the moment. 3-5-2 with attacking wing-backs who have instructions to defend first and foremost. Sandra does what Sandra does. Three great CB's. Carrol to keep the ball and move possesion about the pitch. Deborah to drive forward to attack. Abbey can link the midfield to the attack and Denise can goalhang/poach.

Soccer formations made easy with this11.com

 

[jondesouza]

IMO the Arsenal game doesn't really tell us a lot. The game was over by the time we switched to it.

Personnel wise, the three centre backs I would have concerns about. I'm not sure if you are suggesting the exact same CB's but none of them have the pace really if they are dragged out to wide areas and Dawson didnt really understand the role he was playing, as the 'middleman' you are meant to be the cover, but he naturally wants to charge out, contest and be a 'stopper'. Maybe a three of Kaboul-Vertonghen-Caulker would work but Gallas and Dawson in the formation would be a big no-no for me.

As for the wingbacks, Walker would cover the ground but is stuck in some sort of footballing hell right now, Lennon and Bale I'm not sure work hard enough to track back, I think the centre backs would get really exposed especially down our left flank.

Agree with you completely about Gallas and, to a lesser extent, Dawson. And yes, Walker could make a good wing-back if he was in any sort of form.

I think Lennon regularly shows some good defensive discipline - actually I sometimes think that he comes too deep when we're playing in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 and is meant to be higher up the pitch in those formations. Bale's defensive discipline disappeared some time ago which is a massive shame as he was starting to become a much better defender in his long spell at left-back. I wonder if playing Bale as a left wing-back would almost force him to contribute more on the defensive side. Right now he is meant to be higher up the pitch but does neither the high line pressing job he's meant to nor the tracking back.

 

[DJS]

Soccer formations made easy with this11.com

Ooooh pretty.

 

[tobi]

IMO the Arsenal game doesn't really tell us a lot. The game was over by the time we switched to it.

Personnel wise, the three centre backs I would have concerns about. I'm not sure if you are suggesting the exact same CB's but none of them have the pace really if they are dragged out to wide areas and Dawson didnt really understand the role he was playing, as the 'middleman' you are meant to be the cover, but he naturally wants to charge out, contest and be a 'stopper'. Maybe a three of Kaboul-Vertonghen-Caulker would work but Gallas and Dawson in the formation would be a big no-no for me.

As for the wingbacks, Walker would cover the ground but is stuck in some sort of footballing hell right now, Lennon and Bale I'm not sure work hard enough to track back, I think the centre backs would get really exposed especially down our left flank.

Juve's three CB's aren't blessed with pace and none of them are as comfortable as Kaboul, Caulker and Vertonghen when it comes to bringing the ball out of defence. Then again that's not important when you have a QB in front of you.

The team just needs to understand what's required of them, I think the defenders (first choice) are capable of that, its the others further up the pitch that will be the problem.

 

[lillywhites61]

I think it would be a useful tool in the armoury. You can imagine this providing a nice blend of defensive solidity and attacking threat:

Lloris​

​

Kaboul Caulker Vertonghen​

​

Lennon Dembele Sandro Carroll Bale​

​

Adebayor​

​

Defoe​

​

It would also enable Bale and Lennon to attack from deeper which would benefit us.​

I actually think Lennon works harder at tracking back than bale does. But I would be a little concerned that we could be opened up on both but especially the left flank.

 

[Donki]

3 at the back is always going to be ropey against 3 advanced attacking player, espeically if they are wide attacking players. Its would take a great deal of disipline and brains in midfiled to carry out thier defensive duties in and rrund the box.

 

[mpickard2087]

Agree with you completely about Gallas and, to a lesser extent, Dawson. And yes, Walker could make a good wing-back if he was in any sort of form.

I think Lennon regularly shows some good defensive discipline - actually I sometimes think that he comes too deep when we're playing in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 and is meant to be higher up the pitch in those formations. Bale's defensive discipline disappeared some time ago which is a massive shame as he was starting to become a much better defender in his long spell at left-back. I wonder if playing Bale as a left wing-back would almost force him to contribute more on the defensive side. Right now he is meant to be higher up the pitch but does neither the high line pressing job he's meant to nor the tracking back.

Lennon does work harder, its probably unfair to put him in the same category as Bale when it comes to tracking back, but I'm still not sure he has the discipline to do it for 90 mins and constantly get up and down the pitch.

 

[Donki]

Juve's three CB's aren't blessed with pace and none of them are as comfortable as Kaboul, Caulker and Vertonghen when it comes to bringing the ball out of defence. Then again that's not important when you have a QB in front of you.

The team just needs to understand what's required of them, I think the defenders (first choice) are capable of that, its the others further up the pitch that will be the problem.

Pretty much what I was getting at.,

 

[CJMurray]

The only way I could see it working would be with Vertonghen, Kaboul and Caulker. Vertonghen as the left sided CB and Kaboul on the right hand side. Both have experience in their full back position as well. Needs Sandro and Parker sitting in front of the defence as well.

Would look something like this:

 

[jondesouza]

3 at the back is always going to be ropey against 3 advanced attacking player, espeically if they are wide attacking players. Its would take a great deal of disipline and brains in midfiled to carry out thier defensive duties in and rrund the box.

I'm not so sure. If you're up against a 4-3-3 for example you're only up against one central attacker so the way in which you deploy your centre-backs becomes more flexible. Firstly, your own wing-backs' attacking runs should be able to push the wide attackers in the opposition 3 further back to make them less effective. In possession you should be able to have a centre-back come forward to provide a man over in midfield. One of the key dangers from wide attackers when up against a back four is their exploitation of the space between the centre backs and full backs. That would be less of a problem with a back three as the left and right centre-backs and left and right wing-backs can double up on the wide attackers with the midfielder anchorman dropping back into a more defensive position. I wish I could do one of those lovely line-up charts so I could show you what I mean but unfortunately my work IT have blocked them!

 

[mill]

If we were gonna play 3 at the back I'd prefer to st up the way bielsa set up his Chile and Argentina teams more of a 3313 but I don't think we have the right players

 

[jondesouza]

If we were gonna play 3 at the back I'd prefer to st up the way bielsa set up his Chile and Argentina teams more of a 3313 but I don't think we have the right players

Genuine question as I don't know the answer but where was the width in that 3-3-1-3? Or was the whole thing designed to be quite narrow and compact?

 

[ShelfSide18]

I fear that people are thinking that a change of system can solve the problems we have at the moment, it won't, it may mitigate them to a certain extent but ultimately we need to get some absolute basics sorted first before we start discussing formation and system.

Our off the ball work is often atrocious, we don't do nearly enough to recover the ball when we don't have it and too many of our team are happy to delegate their defensive duty to our defence and Sandro (last season Parker). Sandro is immense, as was Parker last season but their best efforts just about manage to cover up the gaping holes we leave with one square of tesco value bog roll. Don't get this right soon, or at the very least competent, then we are always going to sell ourselves short. Last season we had Modric and VDV who helped hide this problem to some extent, this season it has been blown wide open. I was positive after the first game at Newcastle because we appeared to do this better, but it has dropped away since. The only thing that has improved is our shape is better, I think, but that shape is so passive that we surrender the initiative so easily and then it's only a matter of time before Kyle Walker goes walkabouts, or Gareth Bale just stands watching the full back run beyond him, or Tom Huddlestone stands off David Silva forgetting he is dangerous enough when pressure is applied to the ball. No system can completely cover this up, it's true that under Redknapp this frailty was sometimes mitigated when he played 2 of Sandro/Parker/Palacios together, but it's far more ideal if you have all your team reading off the same page. Gary Neville touched on this on monday evening on Sky, he was talking about Bale and his lack of work rate. I like Neville, but he was wrong, Bale is just not good enough yet to completely flunk his defensive duties. Ronaldo will probably weigh in double Bale does this season, Messi even more and Messi works his little bollocks off anyway and that is why he is the best ever, and has been the star player in the side that has defined the current footballing era. Gareth Bale is just not anywhere near good enough yet, as for Defoe and his half arsed attempts at working to win the ball back...

3 at the back, 4 at the back whatever - and don't get me wrong I am happy to talk tactics all day - but we need to get the basics right first.

 

[mill]

Genuine question as I don't know the answer but where was the width in that 3-3-1-3? Or was the whole thing designed to be quite narrow and compact?

The second 3 consists of 2 wing backs and a dm can't write to formation out now as on my phone and the screens bust, just writing this is grief but I will try later

 

[1813]

Defoe - Adebayor​

Bale - Dembele - Walker​

Sandro - Parker​

Vertonghen - Caulker - Kaboul​

​

Would love to try something like this. Both Jan and Younes have fullback experience and could give support to our wingers. Two holding MF with the right "grinta" (italian) Dembele as the link in the team. Why not try it against Panathinaikos?​