An apology to Didier Zokora

[AngerManagement]

The thing is with him is that when he was brought into the squad he was expected to replace Carrick, he clearly couldnt. Also he was compared to Viera, our Viera, again he clearly hasnt been.

With these expectations he has been on a hiding to nothing, he simply isnt as good a player as we had expected him to be, what with the transfer fee and reports given of him before he sign.

He could possibly be a good DM in the Makelele mould on a consistant basis, certain not as good as Makelele his postioning and awareness is no where near as good. As Stoof said for him to thrive in this role we could well have to change our whole shape to accomadate him (long term), the question is would Ramos do this or rarther bring in a more complete midfielder and relegate Zokora to squad utility man?

 

[SpurSince57]

People seem to think I'm saying he's shit - shock. I'm not, for the umpteenth time, saying that at all.

I'm saying he's a step down from Carrick - always has been. Hasn't gelled with any other midfielder. Yeah he's improved but as SS57 has said, it's taken him a season and a half to get anywhere near a consistent, acceptable level. That's not what was needed at the time, and I still don't think our midfield suits him. I think he limits whichever partner he plays with, and unless we're going to go fully Seville style [with two 'holders'] then I don't see a future for him at the Lane.

In a midfield 3 he has a future, but he just doesn't have enough of a skillset to be half of a central midfield 2. He asks too much of his partner each time. This is obviously all my opinion, and I accept others think otherwise [obviously!], however, I think he's been a revelation as a second half centre back and would actually like to see him there instead of other more conventional centre halves.



Is that enough for a midfield 2? Not for me it isn't. And that's always been my point.

It's always been mine, too, and what we really don't know is whether Ramos sees this as a temporary expedient, the best available current option (or the least worst, if you prefer), or as a blueprint for next season. But although second-guessing Juande's intentions has proven to be a mug's game, I suspect we will go the Seville route, in which case what we saw on Saturday is what's on the menu. Who is going to be taking those roles, of course, is anyone's guess.

What I will say, though, is that whereas last season (and even a few weeks ago) the prospect of the Hudd and Zokora as our CM partnership filled me with deepest gloom, on Saturday, and in the second half against Chelsea, they worked together pretty spiffingly. Instead of getting in one another's way and looking generally clueless they had clearly defined roles and fulfilled them effectively, and you really can't ask more than that. OK, Pompey didn't have their best available midfield, but you can't say the same of Chelsea. I'll really be surprised if Ramos doesn't continue with them on Sunday, although the acid test will come when we go to Blackburn.

 

[DC_Boy]

I must say I'll be very surprised if JJ is kept out of the team on a long-term basis by either Hudd or Zokora, for me he's better than either player ATM. Of course JR is the man, and if he decrees that JJ should play second fiddle to both of these then I'll go along with that, but I can't see it happening.

 

[AnotherSpursFan]

i would like to apologize to the thread starter because i still think Zoko is S**T

 

[rixter1]

We may aswell sign Dwain Chambers!!...All he is, is an athlete and the fact my technical ability is better than his worries me greatly...

 

[SpurSince57]

I must say I'll be very surprised if JJ is kept out of the team on a long-term basis by either Hudd or Zokora, for me he's better than either player ATM. Of course JR is the man, and if he decrees that JJ should play second fiddle to both of these then I'll go along with that, but I can't see it happening.

It depends what you mean by long-term. As far as next season goes, all bets are off. Ramos is nothing if not unpredictable, but I really can't see him bringing Jenas back against the Barcodes—in the first place it's pretty obvious that he's unhappy with him, in the second why change a winning combination?—and if we beat them and go on to beat Blackeye, our toughest remaining fixture apart from Liverpool, who's to know what will happen?

 

[yanno]

It just seems to me that Ramos and Poyet have identified Zokora's strengths and weaknesses and played to the former; as a result, we've seen a steady improvement in his performance. By the same token, they've had no hesitation in dropping Jenas and giving Huddlestone the nod.

This is a key point. Ramos has been razor-sharp in identifying the strengths and weaknesses of players, and trying them in positions which play to their strengths.

Utilizing Zokora as a spare CB with a licence to step out and attack the ball has produced some of his very best performances in a Spurs shirt. But using Zoko there is more of an option when we're chasing a game, the opposition has dropped off, and we only need one proper CB plus Zoko in that half-and-half (ACB - copyright Stoof) role. Juande hasn't picked Zoko at CB from the start of matches very often, and when he has it's been less than impressive.

Similarly, Ramos has experimented with Huddlestone at CB and as the playmaking CM next to the more defensively-minded Zokora. Both experiments imo are attempts to see how best to utilize the Hud's vision and range of passing.

Ramos has also made Jenas much more disciplined, getting him to pick and choose the moment to run forward far more sparingly. He hasn't been playing as a box-to-box CM under Ramos, and this is part of the challenge for him. Ramos wants JJ to boss the centre of the pitch and be our creative passer. He's had a lot of knocks recently, and I thought he was adapting to his new role very well right up to (and including) the CC Final.

But all three - Zoko, JJ, and the Hud - are striving to prove to Ramos that they deserve a place in the squad for next season. I'm sure Ramos wouldn't hesitate to get two top class CMs in if they're available. And remember Sven loves JJ, and would doubtless make a crazy bid with dirty Thai money for Jenas if he thought he was available. Ramos may think it's better to accept a £10 million-plus bid for JJ from Man City and sign a player he considers more suited to "Ramos football".

 

[DC_Boy]

It depends what you mean by long-term. As far as next season goes, all bets are off. Ramos is nothing if not unpredictable, but I really can't see him bringing Jenas back against the Barcodes—in the first place it's pretty obvious that he's unhappy with him, in the second why change a winning combination?—and if we beat them and go on to beat Blackeye, our toughest remaining fixture apart from Liverpool, who's to know what will happen?

Hi 57 What I mean by long-term is say for the majority of the remaining season and for next season too. Obviously I agree that JR may buy/sell etc, but IMHO JJ is a better player than either Hudd or Zoko now and will be next season too (injuries permitting of course) therefore I can't see those two keeping JJ out of the first team (except for rotation etc), but what do I know? If JR makes a decision that one or both should keep JJ out, then I trust his judgement.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

People seem to think I'm saying he's shit - shock. I'm not, for the umpteenth time, saying that at all.

I'm saying he's a step down from Carrick - always has been. Hasn't gelled with any other midfielder. Yeah he's improved but as SS57 has said, it's taken him a season and a half to get anywhere near a consistent, acceptable level. That's not what was needed at the time, and I still don't think our midfield suits him. I think he limits whichever partner he plays with, and unless we're going to go fully Seville style [with two 'holders'] then I don't see a future for him at the Lane.

In a midfield 3 he has a future, but he just doesn't have enough of a skillset to be half of a central midfield 2. He asks too much of his partner each time. This is obviously all my opinion, and I accept others think otherwise [obviously!], however, I think he's been a revelation as a second half centre back and would actually like to see him there instead of other more conventional centre halves.



Is that enough for a midfield 2? Not for me it isn't. And that's always been my point.

And my point has always been that Zokora & Jenas are far more consistant and far better suited to the roles of how we are trying play than people realise. We consistantly outpossess nearly every team we play. This isn't because of our strikers (keane treats the ball like a hot potato and Berbatov isn't exactly industrius either). It's because we have two players in Jeans and Zokora who manage to marry 90 min energy with a good degree of tenacity and (especially in Zokora's case) hardly ever giving the ball to the opposition.

Our biggest problem (no that our defence is starting to improve)- the reason we are good but not top 4 yet is that we don't have top drawer creativity in our midfield in abundance.

Firstly you have Lennon who after his initial burst on to the scene is now a heavily marked man who is still coming to terms wih how to take a game by the scruff of the neck now that he is constantly double teamed and is still a bit timid. He needs to be demanding the ball far more han he does from the midfield. I had sympathy with him saturday. Everyone was moaning about his end product but for me it was one of his liveliest displays and it's what we need to see more of. Then you have the tenacious Malbranque playing out of position all season with a natural affinity for drifting out of position and inside.

If you are going to play a 442 and your creativity is going to come predominantly from the flanks then your wide men need to be very good at their jobs.

Our CM invariably do their job. They win the ball and give it to a team mate. Trouble is their options are often so narrow and limited. Watch Sevilla. Poulson and Keita aren't world class CM's, just very good at simple stuff. But the players around them are also very good at their jobs too. Kanoute, Fabiano, Navas, Capel, Alves etc.

Th biggest problm with our midfield is our wide players aren't creative (malbranque) and industrious (Lennon) enough and that our strikers (Keane mainly) don't show enough for the ball.

I think it is much harder than most of you appreciate to find a CM to excell in a four midfield in modern football, especially the frenetic, 5 midfield dominated EPL.

Under those circumstances I think Zokora deserves way more credit han he gets.

 

[Liquidator]

in a world where Rio F can be England Captain - if he remembers where he put the armband - I think our man DidiZok is definitely a prize member of the Spurs Squad.

And yes, I do say squad, rather than team, simply because with the widening gap between the top and bottom of the premiership and our commitments in Europe, Spurs essentially have to have two styles of play.

The holding and breaking for the big boys, and the all-out Tora Tora Tora for the likes of Derby, Fulham, and dare I whisper... NUFC??

 

[tRiKS]

because our entire squad are subject to patches of the sublime or the ridiculous it makes me wonder if there is a magic sock they rotate amongst themselves.

Steed passed it to Zokora.